Stuck in between a rock and a hard place.


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Sounds like she is struggling with her testimony of the Book of Mormon. Study that with the children as well and testify.

God loves both of you. You can't threaten her though. Show her more love. People have mentioned D&C 121. It truly is a roadmap. Show her you love her by bring kind and doing acts of service. Show your children that you love them. Especially when you want to be angry.

my wife isn't a member. I understand how the conflicts can be. But the Lord will bless you if you follow Him and show love and kindness.

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  • 2 weeks later...

priesthoodpower, if you want to live up to your name, delete your match.com profile and don't go back there until your divorce is final. If you're married, keep your mind strictly on your marriage and your wife. Don't let it wander to others, such that you check out divorcees on match.com, or you will certainly lose your power in the Priesthood. And you need that power, as do your children (and frankly, your wife). So do the right thing, and avoid that nonsense.

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thanks twistedfairytales for the support.

 

 

it seems that my wife has permanently left the church lifestyle and standards. Its official, I now have a non-member wife, this is so weird and hard to get used to. Im not so stressed at her actions and choices about leaving religion but I am very dissappointed that she continues to devalue, discourage the mormon lifestyle to my kids. She told me that her life being raised in the church was so restrictive and she felt she was brainwashed, she does not want our kids to go through the same upbringing she went through.

 

the past two sundays while i had to work night shift she intentionally broke the sabbath day with the kids, went to a restaurant and shopping at the mall, the next sunday she let my daughter play in her soccer game. I was furious because I stood tall for my beliefs and told the coaches that we do not play on sundays and from the very beginning of the soccer season we did not attend those sunday soccer games, its as if my wife wanted to piss me off, she even said it herself "are you mad because I shamed you infront of the team by breaking your rules?"

 

a couple of days ago I wrote her an email detailing 7 reasons why we need to get divorced and called on her to go and file the papers. she is in the middle of her graduate program and needs my support for the next 12 months so after a heated argument things settled down and we both cooled off.

 

I feel that i should be able to continue to raise our kids the way we started off from day one and that is in the mormon lifestyle. But now I have opposition from my wife and the kids are starting to side with her because its way more fun to live without "daddys mormon rules". I feel like im all by myself in this family, my wife and kids are in one corner and im in the other all by myself being mocked at for my beliefs.

 

I just feel that my kids should not be confused in my house, if I have to divorce my wife so that I can have a home that i can worship freely under then I want to do that, even if it means that my kids only visit me on weekends atleast they will see a clear distinction of the two lifestyles of their parents. I even went and created a profile on match.com and saw a few other good looking LDS divorced women on there, I didnt communicate with anyone yet but im so ready to start.

What Vort said.

You are MARRIED. You belittle your wife for her choices, but your actions aren't any better. You talk as though you are the better example for your children, but for a married man to be looking for women on dating sites is despicable. The fact that the only reference to the kind of "quality" you are looking for in a woman is their looks shows just how shallow your views are. So this what you want to teach your children that is better? That it is okay for a married man to go trolling for women?

Your actions are not that of a worthy priesthood holder. They are shameful.

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Hi Priesthoodpower.  Looks like it's been a few days since anyone has posted on this thread.  Don't know how you are feeling now, but it sure sounds like the communication between you and your wife has really taken a turn for the worse.  It's like you both have stopped listening to each other.  And like you are starting to go to war.  And that makes me really sad for you and your wife and those beautiful kids you have.

 

Don't go to war Priesthoodpower.  I know you are hurting and feeling betrayed. I know you are afraid.  But don't let those feelings overtake your wisdom and cause you to stop practicing love.  Slow your reactions.  Calm your indignation.  Don't let yourself blame or attack or withhold your patience, kindness, or long suffering.  Your feelings are understandable and valid.  I'm not suggesting you have lie or dishonor them in any way.  I mean this challenge you've been given is very difficult and heart-wrenching.  But remember you ALWAYS have a choice as to how you handle it.  We don't always get to choose our problems but we always have a choice as to how we'll react to them.

 

Reach out to your wife.  Soften your heart.  Soften your words and your judgments and your protests.  The church is important.  But not nearly as important as learning the lessons of love.  Don't get stuck in a right fight.  You'll win the battle and lose the war.  There are no winners in wars like this and the ones who lose the most are those sweet kids.  

 

Try empathy instead.  Try slowing things down.  Try getting curious instead of furious.  Try getting to the heart of the matter and validating your wife's feelings.  Support her.  Be her soft place to fall.  ANd then ask for what you need.  It's ok to ask for her to negotiate a new way to raise the children.  It's ok to ask her to watch her mocking tone.  But do so from a place of gentleness and peace.  OK?  I know it's hard what I'm suggesting.  Selflessness is one of the hardest things Father asks us practice.  But it works way better than the stuff our natural man comes up with.

 

When stuff like this happens, it's so easy to feel like the victim.  To feel like all this stuff is happening to us.  But maybe it's happening FOR us. Maybe we need to be rocked on our heads so we can see our rough edges and realize our need for repentance or change.   Pain tends to be like mud on the windshield and we panic and start swerving all over the road!  Don't panic.  Settle down and let the spirit teach you what to do next.  Then follow those dictates.  And grace will attend you.  

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Is it wrong for me to say that God is #1 in my life, kids are #2, wife is #3? The reason I say this is because I see so many people in this world who are lonely, their kids are all grown up and gone, the spouse is either deceased or divorced and all they are left with is God. This seems to be the natural cycle for a lot of  people in this world and thats how I feel.

 

No... and yes.   Putting God first is clearly correct.  However to many people hide their own selfish desires under the cloak of God's Will.  Note what God says about husband's relationships with their wives.

 

Ephesians 5

 25 Husbands, love your wives, even as Christ also loved the church, and gave himself for it;

 

Please note the command does not require you wife to be of the same faith as you before you do it.  Love her like God loves her, Like Christ loves her, up to giving yourself up for her.

 

Thus God himself is saying your wife is a high priority.. do not forget that.

 

As for your kids...  Some kids seem to get all the breaks, and have parents that do everything 'right' and they still fall away.  Other kids seem to have everything stacked against them and they pull it together any ways.   There is no magical sequence of church activity that guarantees they will not fall away.

 

However your personal example is huge...  Are you going to be a Christ-like priesthood holder who treats their mother with respect, dignity, love and honor no matter what she does (or at least strive to).  Or are they going to see a guy who used them as a weapon and a pretext in his battles with their mom?  There are of course many other paths you can take in dealing with your wife and kids... but your personal example in this matter will far out weight church attendance or other activity that you think might be important for them in helping them choose the right.

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thanks for caring and thinking about me

 

after that big arguement where I laid it all out to her about her anti actions regarding raising our kids in the mormon culture it seems like she did make efforts to respect my wishes. please remember that we were both born-n-raised LDS and for the first 11 years of our marriage we raised our kids in unity, now that she left the church she is trying to break up what was already established. All im doing is trying to stand up for what was already in place as far as raising the kids.

 

i am slowly getting used to the fact that her lifestyle is not mine anymore but i cannot and will not let her take the kids down that road.

 

Is it wrong for me to say that God is #1 in my life, kids are #2, wife is #3? The reason I say this is because I see so many people in this world who are lonely, their kids are all grown up and gone, the spouse is either deceased or divorced and all they are left with is God. This seems to be the natural cycle for a lot of  people in this world and thats how I feel.

I get it.  She's changing the game and you aren't prepared for that.  And your concerns are valid.  The kids need stability anywhere they can get it.

 

I also honor your courage to try to slowly adjust to these new changes.  You said that she was able to calm a bit and start to respect your wishes.  Perhaps she is slowly moving towards what you need as well.  Sounds like there might be a little spark of hope here that might lead to mutually beneficial negotiations.  Am I right?  Is this a place of softening that could be nurtured?  I'd love to see you through your energy towards building this bridge.

 

In regards to your last statements, I'm not sure it's "wrong" to put wife 3rd.  But I'm concerned that your statement is really only about you and your emotional survival and protection.  Maybe you've lost trust in your wife's devotion to you.  Or maybe you had trust issues before you got married.  I couldn't know.  But this is concerning especially for the children.  The children's greatest protection is a the safe haven of a strong marriage.  Don't think the kids won't sense your disloyalty to each other.  They absolutely will!  And it will instill inside of them a strain of insecurity and teach them not to trust relationships.  

 

I really like Estradling's post.  It feels like really good counsel for you.  Maybe when you are ready you'll have the courage to rise to it.

Edited by Misshalfway
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There is a FB group just for LDS people with spouses who have left. 

It's called 'Another Testament of Marriage' (that page will give you information on how to join the group). I invite all people in this sitiation to give it a look if you're looking for support.
 

There is also a presentation on a psychology study by a psychologist named Adam Fisher about LDS people changing beliefs and marriage.

Praying for you and your family.

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  • 1 month later...

Wow. Great questions. I wish I knew the answers.

 

Your wife should not be taking the sacrament when she's not living her covenants and does not even believe the doctrine or Priesthood authority that consecrates the sacrament. But while she should not take the sacrament, I don't know what you should do about it. I don't know that it's your place to stop her. Talking with the bishop would be a good idea, but...if she feels that you "told on" her or betrayed her, that would be bad.

 

Similarly, she should in no case be teaching a Primary class. Again, I don't know how to approach this. If the Primary president is a very trustworthy individual, perhaps you could just tell her in confidence, and not to be shared with anyone else, that your wife should never under any circumstances be asked to teach a Primary class. But again, I don't know this is necessarily good. It could lead to really ugly and tragic misunderstandings.

 

So I obviously don't have much useful to suggest. Mainly responding to offer my sympathies.

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If your wife doesn't believe in the church, why is she taking sacrament that uses water rather than red wine? o.O

 

If she doesn't believe in the church, then she doesn't believe Joseph Smith's revelation about the sacrament, either, which means she's doing nothing other than drinking tepid water and eating crumbs of bread torn by a stranger's hands.

Edited by FunkyTown
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A couple things about the sacrament - it's meant to be a renewal of covenants and an indication that you're going to try to not repeat the same mistakes as the previous week.  It's also so you'll have the Spirit with you.  From what you describe, your wife isn't interested in either of the above, so to me it's more of a mockery before God that she's taking it.

 

As far as teaching - not Primary kids or anyone else.  

Doctrine and Covenants 42:14

And the Spirit shall be given unto you by the prayer of faith; and if ye receive not the Spirit ye shall not teach.

Edited by notquiteperfect
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My $0.02

 

 

 

question 1: Considering that my wife trashed her garments and no longer considers her baptismal or temple covenants valid, she also HATES the current bishop and RS president as well as a few other members. She does not sustain any of the current or former prophets/leaders or doctrines, Is she taking the sacrament un-worthily?

 

 

I would in no way forbid your wife from taking the sarcament.  It is her choice, and she needs all the spiritual reinforcement she can get.  I leave any "worthiness" judgements to the Lord. 

 

 

 

question 2: My childs primary teacher was absent lastweek and asked my wife to substitute, at first I was going to step in and say that she shouldnt substitute teach any primary classes knowing how she feels about the church but I decided that maybe this would help her feel the spirit. Was I wrong to allow her to teach? should I setup a meeting with my wife and bishop so she can receive some sort of official discipline or probation?

 

How does she feel about teaching the class?  If she doesn't want to, than she doesn't have to.

 

If she does want to teach, then I would volunteer to teach with her.  That was the kids will get a good lesson for sure.  (This is assuming she's not completely off the reservation).

 

 

A third subject: if/when your wife wants to tell others what's going on with her faith, then that is her choice, not yours.

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Please find someone else to take your kids to LDS services.  I would tell your wife that she needs to attend another church.  If she focuses on living up to another church's standards and is busy serving she will have less time for anti-LDS lit and will learn to love others regardless of beliefs.  She might also learn that there are hypocrites in every church (mine included and sometimes me) and judge you less harshly.

 

Edit

Oooops .  I posted before I read the whole thread.  I pray God will bless your marriage.

Edited by Irishcolleen
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It sounds as though she may be having a crisis of faith, rather than being certain of the untrueness of the mormon gospel. I admit, there are a few things about the church and it's culture that confuse and concern me, and many people with these concerns may turn to disbelief of crisis. She may just be coping with things that she finds annoying or incorrect in the way she can. Just love her. She has her own agency to do what she will, including the sacrament, if she feels it to be right. Keep praying, go to the temple on your own, and love her despite the annoyances. There may be secret thoughts that you aren't seeing.

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I agree with a lot of what Jane Doe says. If she wants to take the sacrament, cool her choice.

 

Teaching in primary is a little more tricky; the children deserve to get a good lesson that reinforces their faith in God, the Church, Christ, etc.  I'm pretty sure when a male is teaching the Church requires two teachers in primary . . .  IMO it's fine if she teaches, but only if there is someone else with her.  You don't want the kids in primary getting some passive-aggressive lesson about faith or Christ.

 

Unless she is actively in church trying to dissuade others away from the gospel then I would think no formal discipline is needed.  If she did receive it at this point it would more likely drive her away rather than do her any good.

 

Keep loving her . . . maintain the appropriate standards for yourself and your family and just keep loving her.

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I'm glad that she sincerely loves you, but to make this work you two really need to find a way to get on the same page when it comes to the kids so there isn't conflict.  Does she understand that belittling the church to her kids is the same as belittling you to the kids?  Would she be willing to go with you for counseling, perhaps via LDS Social Services, perhaps some secular therapist with a good reputation.

 

It may be a good time to teach your kids that they need to find out for themselves, not rely on mom or dad to define what they think of God.  Teach them to pray and ask God what is true.  Even little kids can get a testemony of their own.

 

I think you can lovingly share your thoughts (and listen to hers) about the sacrament and teaching Primary, but she has to make her own choices.  If you are asked to sustain her in some calling, that would be a time to say no, but if you try to control her actions rather than just encourage and exhort you lose the relationship and her relationship with you is probably the most important thing to help her come back.  It's the same thing with teenagers, you teach what you can but you have to let them make their own choices.  When they find out they chose badly, having a good relationshp with their parent makes it so much easier for them to come back. 

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First off, I would first look at you.  What have you done to contribute to your wife's problem?  The reason I ask this is because you work on Sunday.  How long have you worked on Sunday's?  I also say this because I used to do the same thing and I encountered a similar problem.  My ex was spiritually weak and working on Sunday's didn't help.  I worked in an essential service (law enforcement), so I had a ready excuse.  Notice I didn't say reason.  I know without a doubt that my working on Sunday's contributed to her inactivity.  She wouldn't go if I didn't.

 

Secondly, it's obvious your wife's problem started quite a while ago.  This is why I asked how long you worked on Sunday's.  The second anyone begins to question those in callings of leadership without valid, articulable, good reasons, that person is on the road to apostasy.  This isn’t to say that mistakes aren’t made.  Back in 1994 my bishop was excommunicated.  In the last two years, I had another bishop released for simple incompetence.  I know for a fact that bishops have a problem with discernment.  However, that doesn’t mean their calling was valid in the first place.  Sometimes a bishop is called because there isn’t anyone else available.

 

As to how to help your wife, well, that one is very tough.  Your wife is under the influence of a false spirit.  Joseph Smith taught extensively on the subject of the discerning of spirits.  According to his cousin, the Apostle George A. Smith, Joseph spent more time learning about and teaching upon the subject of the discerning of spirits than any other subject.  Joseph even wrote an extensive editorial in the Times and Seasons about this that was included in the History of the Church.

 

A man must have the discerning of spirits before he can drag into daylight this hellish influence and unfold it unto the world in all its soul-destroying, diabolical, and horrid colors; for nothing is a greater injury to the children of men than to be under the influence of a false spirit when they think they have the Spirit of God.  HC 4:573

 

 

Behold, verily I say unto you, that there are many spirits which are false spirits, which have gone forth in the earth, deceiving the world.
(Doctrine and Covenants 50:2)

 

I don’t know if divorce is an answer, but at the same time, you must consider the damage to your children.  The only advice I feel I can give is fasting and prayer.  I’m a big believer in fasting and prayer.  I would also reconsider working on Sunday’s.  Can you find another job?  What is more important to you: your family's spiritual salvation or your work? 

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