Praise to the Man


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I almost want to start a thread about whether it would be appropriate to pray for a prayer. I suppose that begs the question why ask for other peoples prayers, isn't your voice good enough, doesn't Christ and the Father care enough to hear just you?

I thought it was interesting at least.

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I almost want to start a thread about whether it would be appropriate to pray for a prayer. I suppose that begs the question why ask for other peoples prayers, isn't your voice good enough, doesn't Christ and the Father care enough to hear just you?

I thought it was interesting at least.

 

In Catholic belief, it is completely appropriate and there's an answer to why it is so.  In LDS, it isn't.  Because, the LDS patterns their prayer after the Lord's Prayer.  The LDS doesn't even pray to Jesus...

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Observations:

 

1)  I'm pretty sure I've heard a recording of the Tabernacle Choir singing Ave Maria; so I doubt there's nothing wrong with the song itself--just, for whatever reason, inappropriate for a standard Sacrament meeting (maybe because the lyrics one typically hears to it, are in Latin?)

 

2)  I suspect the hymnbook preface draws its assertion from D&C 25:12:  "For my soul delighteth in the song of the heart; yea, the song of the righteous is a prayer unto me, and it shall be answered with a blessing upon their heads". 

 

Just tossing those out, for what they're worth . . .

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I could've sworn I just said that and you argued the point.

 

No, I didn't argue THAT point.  I argued the point that Ave Maria is NOT a prayer.  The Catholics wrote the words... that means, it's a prayer.  If the LDS wrote the exact same words, it's not a prayer.

 

Do you see?

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Ave Maria is beautiful, especially Schubert's, and I've heard and loved it in many venues. I don't know whether I've heard the MoTab sing it with the original words. I have heard them sing it with the words rewritten and the song re-titled, "Heavenly Father". Either way, I agree: the impropriety would be in singing it for Sacrament meeting or any other setting (not that I can think of one) where the purpose is purely worship. But as a piece of music, there are much, much worse things that could be sung. 

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Observations:

 

1)  I'm pretty sure I've heard a recording of the Tabernacle Choir singing Ave Maria; so I doubt there's nothing wrong with the song itself--just, for whatever reason, inappropriate for a standard Sacrament meeting (maybe because the lyrics one typically hears to it, are in Latin?)

 

2)  I suspect the hymnbook preface draws its assertion from D&C 25:12:  "For my soul delighteth in the song of the heart; yea, the song of the righteous is a prayer unto me, and it shall be answered with a blessing upon their heads". 

 

Just tossing those out, for what they're worth . . .

 

Nobody is arguing on this thread as I understand that there is something wrong with the song itself.  We are arguing why it isn't in the Hymn Book.

 

The MoTab don't sing only hymns from the hymn book.  They sing anything - even non-hymns.

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Ave Maria is beautiful, especially Schubert's.

 

My favorite version is Mendelsson's.

 

 

The first few bars of this song gives me such a feeling of being in the midst of the old and magnificent Cathedrals surrounded by angels... it's almost painful.

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...just, for whatever reason, inappropriate for a standard Sacrament meeting...

 

*shrug* Maybe. I can see a ward choir singing it at Christmas time in Sacrament meeting without problem. Depends on the bishop's p.o.v. I suppose. Is there an actual policy against Latin in sacrament meeting? Hmm....

 

Not the best choice for a hymn though...probably, because it's too Catholic. That's less of a deal now, but there was a time when the LDS church worked quite hard to separate themselves from anything that seemed too Catholic (and any other Christian denomination). Some of those things remain cultural, and some remain standards of good practice. Who knows where a song like Ave Maria falls into that.

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 there was a time when the LDS church worked quite hard to separate themselves from anything that seemed too Catholic (and any other Christian denomination). Some of those things remain cultural, and some remain standards of good practice. Who knows where a song like Ave Maria falls into that.

That can't be true because over half of the hymns in our book are from other christian denominations

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Why isn't this in our hymn book?

 

 

 

For my brothers mission farewell our ward choir sang "Morning Has Broken" by Cat Stevens and "Stairway to Heaven" by Led Zepplin.

 

 

...the no farewells policy started shortly after.

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190 of the 358 hymns in our hymnal come from non Mormon sources

 

I'd say more than half....that's 53%

 

Yes. And we celebrate Christmas too. A protestant holiday.  Clearly, and obviously, the view was that there were certain hymns, holidays, and practices, that were acceptable and didn't relate us too closely to other religions, and certain hymns, holidays, and practices did.

 

What is so hard to understand about that?

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This is another of my very very favorite renditions (how did you post the video directly into your post?):

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XVyCJlPiHFg

 

I just type video /video tags (in brackets) around the link.

 

Yeah, I do like the all male group singing the latin songs.  I have a CD of the Gregorian Monks and their renditions of Ave Maria and Salve Regina give me goose bumps.

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I just type video /video tags (in brackets) around the link.

 

Yeah, I do like the all male group singing the latin songs.  I have a CD of the Gregorian Monks and their renditions of Ave Maria and Salve Regina give me goose bumps.

I love those sorts.

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*shrug* Maybe. I can see a ward choir singing it at Christmas time in Sacrament meeting without problem. Depends on the bishop's p.o.v. I suppose. Is there an actual policy against Latin in sacrament meeting? Hmm....

 

Not the best choice for a hymn though...probably, because it's too Catholic. That's less of a deal now, but there was a time when the LDS church worked quite hard to separate themselves from anything that seemed too Catholic (and any other Christian denomination). Some of those things remain cultural, and some remain standards of good practice. Who knows where a song like Ave Maria falls into that.

"Music in Church meetings should usually be sung in the language of the congregation."  (https://www.lds.org/handbook/handbook-2-administering-the-church/music?lang=eng#144)  Also from that same section: "The hymns are the basic music for worship services and are standard for all congregational singing. In addition, other appropriate selections may be used for prelude and postlude music, choir music, and special musical presentations. If musical selections other than the hymns are used, they should be in keeping with the spirit of the hymns. Texts should be doctrinally correct."

 

So theoretically, I could see Ave Maria being sung in Sacrament meeting.  You can get around the language thing because the rest of the music is "usually" sung in English -- one special, specific piece, once a year, would be in keep with the Spirit of that instruction.  As for the rest of it, it's probably subjective, like you said, to the local bishop's discretion.  Is it doctrinally correct?  Perhaps not technically.  Is it in keeping with the Spirit of the hymns?  I'd say that's likely.

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