pipeorgan Posted October 7, 2014 Report Share Posted October 7, 2014 I just don't understand why this is a requirement. Why isn't our own righteousness and relationship with God the determining factor? Macattack and TurboGirl 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
estradling75 Posted October 7, 2014 Report Share Posted October 7, 2014 How can you say you are righteous and your relationship is good if you do not follow the commandments God has given?? Abraham 3 explains why we are here24 And there stood one among them that was like unto God, and he said unto those who were with him: We will go down, for there is space there, and we will take of these materials, and we will make an earth whereon these may dwell;25 And we will prove them herewith, to see if they will do all things whatsoever the Lord their God shall command them; This gives additional meaning to Doctrine and Covenants 13021 And when we obtain any blessing from God, it is by obedience to that law upon which it is predicated. Between these two we see God's desire to give us all the blessings he has. But to do so we must keep all the commandments he gives. Are we going to mess up keeping all the commandments? Absolutely but God has a plan for that too its Christ's Atonement. It is through Christ's Atonement that we can repent an ultimately learn to keep all the commands. It also covers those that for one reason or another simply could not keep the commandments. For those whom choose not to get married (Which is different then not being able to) then they have chosen not to obey God in that matter. And have chosen not to receive the blessing which God would have given them for so doing. Which means they chose not to enter the highest level of the Celestial Kingdom ztodd 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Traveler Posted October 7, 2014 Report Share Posted October 7, 2014 I just don't understand why this is a requirement. Why isn't our own righteousness and relationship with God the determining factor? It is the nature of who and what we are. Men an women are different and the marriage (covenant sacrifice of self and the coming together for the greater good) of that specific difference brings about a whole that is far greater than the sum of the parts. --- This includes the accomplishment of good as well as the resistance of evil. Thus involvement in a dedication to the covenant of marriage (not just one's individual marriage - but marriage as a divine institution for all seeking truth and right) is not an arbitrary requirement but a necessity in bringing about a divine destiny. Sunday21, annewandering, Just_A_Guy and 1 other 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted October 7, 2014 Report Share Posted October 7, 2014 The Kingdom of God is an Eternal Family. Godhood is Parenthood - the raising of spirits in progression. Hence, to be gods, we are given 2 commandments - Love God and Love others as we love ourselves. Loving others is perfected in the covenant of marriage when we exercise the full import of that love towards righteous dominion over an eternal family. We are to seek that perfection, if not in this life, then the next. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pipeorgan Posted October 7, 2014 Author Report Share Posted October 7, 2014 I guess this is hard for me to understand as a convert to the church. I have known many very righteous nuns and priests who have given their lives to worshipping The Lord. I would guess that they are more righteous than I am, though I am married. PolarVortex and Macattack 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
estradling75 Posted October 7, 2014 Report Share Posted October 7, 2014 I guess this is hard for me to understand as a convert to the church. I have known many very righteous nuns and priests who have given their lives to worshipping The Lord. I would guess that they are more righteous than I am, though I am married. Then the question really isn't about marriage at all... The question is do you believe God will judge everyone fairly taking into account the Truths they would have lived had they known and understood about it? If you believe that then the Nuns and Priests that you have judged to be more righteous then you are ok if indeed they are more righteous and just didn't know better. However if they really did know the will of God and did not do it... will then they have to answer for that like everyone else does no matter what our personal thoughts are on the matter of their rightousness. Leah 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Just_A_Guy Posted October 7, 2014 Report Share Posted October 7, 2014 (edited) Awesome answers given here; I'll just try to phrase it a slightly different way. The defining characteristic of the highest level of the Celestial Kingdom isn't what you're getting; it's what you're doing. In the highest level of the Celestial Kingdom, you're creating life. The Church is silent as to the mechanics of how that works; but it is pretty clear that God doesn't create life except in conjunction with a Heavenly Mother. Why should we expect to separately and singly be able to do something that even God doesn't do except in partnership? Edited October 7, 2014 by Just_A_Guy EarlJibbs, annewandering, Iggy and 1 other 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pipeorgan Posted October 7, 2014 Author Report Share Posted October 7, 2014 Awesome answers given here; I'll just try to phrase it a slightly different way. The defining characteristic of the highest level of the Celestial Kingdom isn't what you're getting; it's what you're doing. In the highest level of the Celestial Kingdom, you're creating life. God can't do that without a spouse; and neither can we.Why can't he? He's God. I thought he can do anything. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
estradling75 Posted October 7, 2014 Report Share Posted October 7, 2014 Why can't he? He's God. I thought he can do anything. Because that is the way he has decreed it be done.... You can take your objections to him of his wisdom and purpose of doing so if you would like Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pipeorgan Posted October 7, 2014 Author Report Share Posted October 7, 2014 Because that is the way he has decreed it be done.... You can take your objections to him of his wisdom and purpose of doing so if you would like I have honest questions, not objections. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
estradling75 Posted October 7, 2014 Report Share Posted October 7, 2014 I have honest questions, not objections. And you are getting Honest answers... But your last question basically asked why did God chose to set things up the way he did. And that is a question only he can really answer. We can speculate all we want but that is all it would be. annewandering 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Just_A_Guy Posted October 7, 2014 Report Share Posted October 7, 2014 Why can't he? He's God. I thought he can do anything. Can He make a stone so big He can't lift it? Pipeorgan, I love you, man; but you might want to rethink your paradigm of an "omnipotent" God. annewandering and mordorbund 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Just_A_Guy Posted October 7, 2014 Report Share Posted October 7, 2014 (edited) I have honest questions, not objections. There's nothing wrong with objections, my friend; and if you don't admit to them for what they are, they'll never be answered. They key is to keep an open mind. Forgive me; but you're almost coming across as if you don't want your questions/objections to be resolved. Edited October 7, 2014 by Just_A_Guy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
paulsifer42 Posted October 7, 2014 Report Share Posted October 7, 2014 Why can't he? He's God. I thought he can do anything. Alma answers this for you: Alma 42:13Therefore, according to justice, the plan of redemption could not be brought about, only on conditions of repentance of men in this probationary state, yea, this preparatory state; for except it were for these conditions, mercy could not take effect except it should destroy the work of justice. Now the work of justice could not be destroyed; if so, God would cease to be God. He can't do 'anything' and remain 'God'. He has rules and laws just like we do. annewandering and Roseslipper 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pipeorgan Posted October 7, 2014 Author Report Share Posted October 7, 2014 There's nothing wrong with objections, my friend; and if you don't admit to them for what they are, they'll never be answered. They key is to keep an open mind. Forgive me; but you're almost coming across as if you don't want your questions/objections to be resolved. Well, they're just not really satisfying my question but I guess it's one of those "We can never truly know" questions. I am questioning why God it made it the way it is. Only he knows this. I guess a part of me is questioning whether or not this is truly from God and not from man but I will try to ignore that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MarginOfError Posted October 7, 2014 Report Share Posted October 7, 2014 The plausible answers to your question are varied and run to all sorts of extremes. Here's a sample Exaltation requires that a person have received an order of the priesthood beyond the Melchizedek (some believe the Sealing to come with the Patriarchal order of the priesthood Joseph Smith spoke of in 1843). Because the Lord wanted mankind to have a pattern firmly entrenched in how families ought to be brought about and raised. Because God said so for no good reason We're completely wrong about this requirement and have totally misunderstood the revelations.I can't tell you which of those are correct, and I won't claim to have ruled any of them out. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
estradling75 Posted October 7, 2014 Report Share Posted October 7, 2014 Well, they're just not really satisfying my question but I guess it's one of those "We can never truly know" questions. I am questioning why God it made it the way it is. Only he knows this. I guess a part of me is questioning whether or not this is truly from God and not from man but I will try to ignore that. The Church has a very clear pattern/path/method on how one can learn about the truthfulness of the teachings of the Church. If one wishes to follow that pattern/path/method, how far along they wish to go using it and what they do with what answers they get... Well that is all very much a personal choice. You have the answer of what it takes (and the importance of marriage) according to the teachings of the Church. What you chose to do about that is totally up to you annewandering 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
paulsifer42 Posted October 7, 2014 Report Share Posted October 7, 2014 Well, they're just not really satisfying my question but I guess it's one of those "We can never truly know" questions. I am questioning why God it made it the way it is. Only he knows this. I guess a part of me is questioning whether or not this is truly from God and not from man but I will try to ignore that. Another something to think about is temple work. The priests and nuns you wrote of are probably good people who, if they knew what God wanted them to do, would do it. These are the kind who will accept the Gospel in the Spirit World and, when Christ comes, will be sealed to a spouse. I think it's pretty much doctrine that there is a Heavenly Mother, so it would seem we work in partnerships in the Celestial Kingdom, so, it is requisite that we find a partner to obtain exhalation. In this scenario, the priests and nuns won't receive anything less, so long as their devotion is to God and His plan. This is my thinking when I think of family members or friends who won't join the church. I can't possibly know if they've received a revelation that the LDS church holds the true gospel, so, in my mind, 'it's not over 'til it's over.' Those who are righteous, with pure hearts, who honestly seek to believe in and follow Christ will be exalted. Roseslipper, annewandering and pipeorgan 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Traveler Posted October 7, 2014 Report Share Posted October 7, 2014 (edited) I guess this is hard for me to understand as a convert to the church. I have known many very righteous nuns and priests who have given their lives to worshipping The Lord. I would guess that they are more righteous than I am, though I am married. What greater righteousness is there than creating living beings, children, capable of eternal righteousness in the image of G-d inside of the covenant of marriage which is ordained by G-d himself? Even with G-d this creation of human life is considered his greatest triumph in righteousness. Edited October 7, 2014 by Traveler Seminarysnoozer 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Windseeker Posted October 7, 2014 Report Share Posted October 7, 2014 What greater righteousness is there than creating living beings, children, capable of eternal righteousness in the image of G-d inside of the covenant of marriage which is ordained by G-d himself? Even with G-d this creation of human life is considered his greatest triumph in righteousness. Exactly, or if I may rephrase it, His work and glory is to bring about the immortality and eternal life of man. If you were the most powerful being in existence with endless resources, logic tells me the greatest thing you could ever accomplish would be to create and nurture others to become as capable as yourself. Accomplishing any other task seems to pale in comparison. annewandering and ztodd 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jane_Doe Posted October 7, 2014 Report Share Posted October 7, 2014 It's also worth pointing out that just because a person doesn't find a spouse in this life, doesn't mean they can't have one in the next (all things done in God's wisdom). Traveler, Blackmarch and Sunday21 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pipeorgan Posted October 7, 2014 Author Report Share Posted October 7, 2014 What greater righteousness is there than creating living beings, children, capable of eternal righteousness in the image of G-d inside of the covenant of marriage which is ordained by G-d himself? Even with G-d this creation of human life is considered his greatest triumph in righteousness. Do you mean procreation within temple marriage or does this include crack babies? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
paulsifer42 Posted October 7, 2014 Report Share Posted October 7, 2014 Do you mean procreation within temple marriage or does this include crack babies? This seems a little more flippant than you probably meant it to. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
paulsifer42 Posted October 7, 2014 Share Posted October 7, 2014 · Hidden by Just_A_Guy, October 7, 2014 - Duplicate Hidden by Just_A_Guy, October 7, 2014 - Duplicate Do you mean procreation within temple marriage or does this include crack babies? This seems a little more flippant than you probably meant it to. Link to comment
mordorbund Posted October 8, 2014 Report Share Posted October 8, 2014 Do you mean procreation within temple marriage or does this include crack babies? Since the subject is marriage as a requirement for exaltation, I don't think that kind of marriage is one that qualifies for celestial glory. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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