unpaid musicians


Guest harpsichord
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I understand that God is not going to punish or look down upon someone who is not skilled. Unfortunately, the result and effect on the congregation is often undesirable if the musician is not skilled. I have heard many people complain about the music in church. I have also has members approach me in tears expressing how moved they were by my playing. I am not saying this to brag. I am saying that there is a benefit to having a professional musician in church. The unskilled musician is likely to be far less moving than the skilled one.

People who complain about the music sound a little shallow to me. Just because someone's worship doesn't sound as playing as another's doesn't mean they shouldn't be asked to share it. The more we discuss this the more I'm convinced we shouldn't pay the organist.

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Plumbing is a no, because Jack-the-amateur-plumber is not to be trusted ;P.  

 

But to do I expect that I will scrub church toilettes for free?  Yep.  To watch rowdy toddlers?  Yep.  To listen to whiney teenagers?  Yep.  To cook food?  Yep.  To organize events?  Yep.  To spend hours helping people with genealogy?  Yep.   

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Music is my profession just like plumbing or practicing law might be someone else's profession. The church has its right to do what it wants, of course. I think I just have a different perspective as someone who is employed by churches to provide professional quality music.

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Would you expect a member of the church who happened to be a plumber to fix the church plumbing for free?

The church already hires a maintenance company too take care of all buildings, but if a bishop felt it needful to call someone to be a plumber (for whatever reason) then, yes.

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Would you expect a member of the church who happened to be a plumber to fix the church plumbing for free?

 

If he volunteered so that he could be of service?  Yes.  I've seen this over and over where people donate and volunteer their professional services to be of service.

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Hey, I found actual direction on this from the first presidency.

"Music in church meetings should not draw attention to to itself or be a demonstration. This music is for worship, not performance." Handbook II administering the church 2010

So, you're occupation is performing on the organ, but you're not performing in sacrament meeting, you're worshipping. Paying you for it would be like paying me every time I pour my heart out to God during the sacrament. We all come to sacrament meeting to worship together; some happen to have particular talents that can be utilized to make that worship more enjoyable.

Not sure if that is a sufficient answer for you, but it is for me. Not even a question I had before, not I'm glad I found an answer.

Edited by paulsifer42
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Another thing: you're at church anyway, or should be. Do you think everyone should get 3 hours' pay on Sunday for loss of potential wages for attending church and volunteering in callings?

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I have to laugh at the idea of being paid to do a calling. When things get bad in my ward in which most have at least two callings, I try to persuade others that we need a paid clergy. I point out the benefits. I pride myself that I am very eloquent but ... I was kidding. Blowing off steam. Never in my life did I imagine that anyone seriously would propose paying someone for a calling!

Edited by Sunday21
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I have to laugh at the idea of being paid to do a calling. When things get bad in my ward in which most have at least two callings, I try to persuade others that we need a paid clergy. I point out the benefits. I pride myself that I am very eloquent but ... I was kidding. Blowing off seam. never in my life did I imagine that anyone seriously would propose paying someone for a calling!

If there is payment involved....I am overdue......Lol

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My sister (who has a degree in Music, and is a very talented pianist), told me of an experience she had while visiting a ward in the Puget Sound area of Washington.  She was sitting in Relief Society, and then the prelude music started. She says, "I thought I was hearing someone just playing the notes with one finger-like a little kid, or someone who was just learning to play. I thought "what is this?."  But, then she learned that the pianist had a disability (I can't remember if the sister was blind), and had to be led to the piano and her fingers positioned in order to play.  My sister no longer thought the music was awful, but was humbled enough to realize it was beautiful.  The ward has talented musicians, but opted to give this particular sister a calling, so that she could serve in some capacity.

 

I've been in Wards where there wasn't a lot of musical talent. The music and singing was still beautiful. It shouldn't be a paid calling.

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I guess this approach is kind of sad to me as someone who has devoted her life to sacred music. I feel like Mormons are missing out on high quality church music. Music is so effective for spiritual growth. It's just unfortunate that Mormons usually have mediocre music. This does not include the Mormon tabernacle choir and the organists at the tabernacle. They are absolutely amazing!

So you think that no one but you delivers "high quality church music"? You are very wrong.

That's mighty judgmental of all,of those who joyfully give their service and it's a pretty prideful and arrogant attitude.

It's a calling, not a profession. You seem not to understand that.

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I understand that God is not going to punish or look down upon someone who is not skilled. Unfortunately, the result and effect on the congregation is often undesirable if the musician is not skilled. I have heard many people complain about the music in church. I have also has members approach me in tears expressing how moved they were by my playing. I am not saying this to brag. I am saying that there is a benefit to having a professional musician in church. The unskilled musician is likely to be far less moving than the skilled one.

Wow.

I have friends who have been wildly successful as musicians for more than fifty years. Whenever they are asked to share that talent in church, they do so with grace, humility and joy and would NEVER whine that they should be paid. Nor would they make such un-Christlike statements as your last sentence.

It is far more moving to be lifted up in music by an "unskilled" musician than by someone who may have some measure of technical proficiency but who has no heart for the music.

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So you think that no one but you delivers "high quality church music"? You are very wrong.

That's mighty judgmental of all,of those who joyfully give their service and it's a pretty prideful and arrogant attitude.

It's a calling, not a profession. You seem not to understand that.

I never said I am the only one. In general, the quality is lower than that of a professional musician. Of course there are exception.

It is a profession. It is my profession. Other denominations pay their organists.

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Wow.

I have friends who have been wildly successful as musicians for more than fifty years. Whenever they are asked to share that talent in church, they do so with grace, humility and joy and would NEVER whine that they should be paid. Nor would they make such un-Christlike statements as your last sentence.

It is far more moving to be lifted up in music by an "unskilled" musician than by someone who may have some measure of technical proficiency but who has no heart for the music.

A good musician plays with technical proficiency and "heart".

I haven't really said that the church should pay me. Obviously, the church has the right to do what it wants to do. Reread my original post.

I do believe it is is a good thing that some denominations pay. Organists need to survive too! When taken to a high level, it's not just a hobby. It's a full time job.

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So you think that no one but you delivers "high quality church music"? You are very wrong.

That's mighty judgmental of all,of those who joyfully give their service and it's a pretty prideful and arrogant attitude.

It's a calling, not a profession. You seem not to understand that.

 

I honestly didn't take harpsicord's comment that way. I didn't take pipeorgan's that way either. What I heard was someone's passion for music coming out.

 

I'm not trying to come at you, Leah, or say that your interpretation was wrong. Just throwing it out there that I took it a little differently. That's all. :)

Edited by Urstadt
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I never said I am the only one. In general, the quality is lower than that of a professional musician. Of course there are exception.

It is a profession. It is my profession. Other denominations pay their organists.

You aren't even trying to get it, are you?

So what if it is your profession? You are not playing for the church in a professional capacity, so your profession is irrelevant.

You throw around the word profession as if it is some sort of proof that you are better or superior to others. Just because someone gets paid for something doesn't mean the are the best or better than someone who is unpaid. Heck, it doesn't even necessarily mean that they are good. I am sure there any number of people who are as good as, or better, than you who simply have not chosen to make money on their talent.

Some denominations pay their organists because they have chosen - for various reasons - to mark it a paid position. This is not the case in our church, as you well know. Callings are not about professions or payment.

Everything we have comes to us from Heavenly Father. But you want to be paid to play music in His church? And you want people to bow down to your superior (in your mind) talent?

I would much rather enjoy the music of an amateur with a humble heart than that of a smug professional.

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