Sign in to follow this  
2ndRateMind

So, I thought I'd run this, by you

Recommended Posts

 

I regularly wonder if you are on this forum to actually open-minded discuss things or are just here to espouse your own personal theories and to try to tell others that they are wrong.

 

 

Hi Leah

 

I like to think I am here to learn. I do that by discussing things that interest me. I state my theory, and post it for criticism, and, when that criticism is solid, alter my theory. If the criticism isn't solid, I criticise the criticism. And in this way, amongst the people, in a myriad media, the Great Debate proceeds. That all seems to me to be an entirely justifiable use of a public forum.

 

Best wishes, 2RM. 

Edited by 2ndRateMind

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

 

 
 

Hmmm. This is tangential to the main thrust and intent of the thread, but I'm happy to follow it and see where it goes.

 

The Google definition of Fascism gives me: 

 

However, this wikipedia article admits a more complex interpretation.

 

My own suspicion is that the political right see advantage in disentangling right-wing politics from any taint of fascism, and are really quite eager to assign fascist ideology and policies to the left wing of the debate, and so escape any possibility of their own guilt by association, while simultaneously condemning their liberal/socialist foes to such.

 

I do not think this is a wholly reputable tactic.

 

Best wishes, 2RM.

 

 

Yeah..that tactic sucks..but the right has dealt with it for years despite how ridiculous it is. So after decades it might be too late for you to call the kettle black...what I'm interested in is simply truth. 

 

It seems unlikely that two historical socialist heavyweight would jump from socialism to capitalism to anarchy to facism...seems like a long path..if such a path exists. Their supporters must have been dizzy after such a venture but somehow they held on..to the misfortune of the world. 

 

We trip down the path of control...and we get more and more control...but we trip down the path of freedom...and we get...control?  ...I don't believe there is such a thing a political sphere...it doesn't meet..it's control or liberty, two opposites that don't meet. 

 

Right wing and Anarchist...yeah...Right wing and Dictator?..no

 

BTW I watched V for Vendetta with two avowed anarchist black hat hackers both were disgusted with the movie they immediately identified as left wing wishful thinking. Anarchist are not Socialist..most Socialist who worship at the altar of Government control are incapable of grasping even that simple concept.

 

 

 

 I'm not a hippy, I do not have flowers in my hair, I come from punk rock, The Clash wore army boots not Birkenstocks. - Bono

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Guest

 

 
 

 

Hi Leah

 

I like to think I am here to learn. I do that by discussing things that interest me. I state my theory, and post it for criticism, and, when that criticism is solid, alter my theory. If the criticism isn't solid, I criticise the criticism. And in this way, amongst the people, in a myriad media, the Great Debate proceeds. That all seems to me to be an entirely justifiable use of a public forum.

 

Best wishes, 2RM. 

 

 

This is also in response to the long post you sent as a reply to my posts.

 

When you are confronted with an argument against your point of view you call it first incongent and then an insult.  There's really no Great Debating with you.  Great Debating doesn't happen with kid gloves.

Edited by anatess

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Anatess, you called him a Bigot...really??

 

I don't see him calling any names. 

 

Comparing the Meadows, a historical sidenote, to centuries of Muslim extremism and calling someone a Bigot because he finds belief in Christ promotes social freedom above all other faiths...is well....extreme if you ask me. 

 

I don't know what your purpose is in defending the fruits of Islam. The Philippines and their history with Abu Sayyaf easily puts them in the top 5 nations that have suffered most at the hands of Muslim extremists. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

This is also in response to the long post you sent as a reply to my posts.

 

When you are confronted with an argument against your point of view you call it first incongent and then an insult.  There's really no Great Debating with you.  Great Debating doesn't happen with kid gloves.

 

Please anatess, let's make a truce. We don't have to agree with each other, but we don't have to insult each other's sincere beliefs, either. I am sure you have sufficient grace about you to humour me on this one; in the interests of the Great Debate, let us both try to generate light, and not heat.

 

Best wishes, 2RM.

Edited by 2ndRateMind

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

...what I'm interested in is simply truth. 

 

 

Good. Hold that thought. Cherish it. Nourish it. Let it be your compass. It will never let you down.

 

Best wishes, 2RM.

Edited by 2ndRateMind

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I notice that North Korea calls itself 'the Democratic People's Republic of Korea'. That does not make it democratic, or the people's, or a republic. So it is with 'Nationalsozialismus', National Socialism, or Nazism. Do not be deceived by the cynical names of nations and regimes. Fascism is about as far right as you can get, whatever it's proponents might prefer to allege, and choose as it's disingenuous label.

 

Best wishes, 2RM.

One thing I have noticed, is America's right wing tends to not be the same as the worlds right wing. So often what we American's see as being "right wing" is actually classical liberalism. Which may be why many of us are perplexed at the idea of fascism being right wing. I admit, I had always thought of Nazi'sm as a left wing idea, until I read on the internet that I was apparently wrong about that.

Just my little opinion, and I may be wrong.

Edited by jerome1232

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

One thing I have noticed, is America's right wing tends to not be the same as the worlds right wing. So often what we American's see as being "right wing" is actually classical liberalism. Which may be why many of us are perplexed at the idea of fascism being right wing. I admit, I had always thought of Nazi'sm as a left wing idea, until I read on the internet that I was apparently wrong about that.

Just my little opinion, and I may be wrong.

 

 

Yeah, I sometimes get confused with the way Americans refer to communism as socialism, whereas in Britain we mean a much less extreme, though still left of center, political movement, when we talk about socialism. For us, socialism means things like free health care at the point of need, a uniform access to opportunity, and a guaranteed minimum pension if we get to live that long. Socialism, to us, is not radical, just gentle on people who may well have contributed much to society without ever becoming wealthy. 

 

Best wishes, 2RM.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Guest

Please anatess, let's make a truce. We don't have to agree with each other, but we don't have to insult each other's sincere beliefs, either. I am sure you have sufficient grace about you to humour me on this one; in the interests of the Great Debate, let us both try to generate light, and not heat.

 

Best wishes, 2RM.

 

You keep on saying "insulting each other".  I'm Filipino.  English is my 3rd language.  When I insult somebody, there's no question about it.  I won't be telling him he is stating idiotic ideas.  I will tell him he's an idiot.  You haven't presented any debate yet.  You just keep on playing the wounded passive-aggressive bloke.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Great debates happen when the argument and presentation of the facts are presented without insults. When insults are used one must assume that the debater has indeed run out of arguments and has resorted to bullying the other into agreeing with their beliefs.

 

An ironical point when considering the topic currently debated.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Yeah, I sometimes get confused with the way Americans refer to communism as socialism, whereas in Britain we mean a much less extreme, though still left of center, political movement, when we talk about socialism. For us, socialism means things like free health care at the point of need, a uniform access to opportunity, and a guaranteed minimum pension if we get to live that long. Socialism, to us, is not radical, just gentle on people who may well have contributed much to society without ever becoming wealthy. 

 

Best wishes, 2RM.

 

For me it is a matter of control.  If the power, control, reach and decisions of a program is in the hands of a centralized minority - that is socialism, liberalism and left wing.  If the control, power, decisions and reach of a program is distributed to localized communities - then it is considered democratic or (republic) conservatism.

 

Historically decentralizing power, control and decision making was liberal and keeping the power in the hands of a ruling minority was conservative. 

 

My personal belief is that when a minority has power over other to make and force decisions - is good only as long as that powerful minority is good and keeps the needs of all more important than their individual pleasure.  The problem is voiced for me in the 121st section of the Doctrine and Covenants verse 39.

 

 

We have learned by sad experience that it is the nature and disposition of almost all men, as soon as they get a little authority, as they suppose, they will immediately begin to exercise unrighteous dominion.

 

For me it is part of why I am LDS - I believe individuals should have say, investment and responsibility for their lives and their needs.  And when an individual, family or community is overwhelmed and in need it is the freedom and responsibility of other individuals, families and communities to determine their charity towards those in need.  It is also my observation that whenever individuals come between the help offered from one to others that those in between come to believe they deserve some for themselves (often even the greater part) - regardless of the need of others and what is available to assist. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Jabbari’s final words:

The world allowed me to live for 19 years. That ominous night it was I that should have been killed. My body would have been thrown in some corner of the city, and after a few days, the police would have taken you to the coroner’s office to identify my body and there you would also learn that I had been raped as well. The murderer would have never been found since we don’t have their wealth and their power.

You taught me that one comes to this world to gain an experience and learn a lesson and with each birth a responsibility is put on one’s shoulder. I learned that sometimes one has to fight.

But I was charged with being indifferent in face of a crime. You see, I didn’t even kill the mosquitoes and I threw away the cockroaches by taking them by their antennas. Now I have become a premeditated murderer.

Dear soft-hearted Sholeh, in the other world it is you and me who are the accusers and others who are the accused. Let’s see what God wants. I wanted to embrace you until I die. I love you.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

This is why I stopped talking politics on this site. Too many people using the same definitions for completely different words  :cool:

 

But I have to add: It shouldn't be surprising if nations which espouse (and practice) Christian ideals enjoy the most personal freedoms. Love one another, and by their fruits ye shall know them.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now
Sign in to follow this