Michael Brown's Parents Set to Speak at the United Nations

[Guest LiterateParakeet]

I agree with MormonGator.  The punishment for stealing is not the death penalty.

 

Whether of not Mike Brown was struggling is still in question.  From what I read, the autopsy seems to show he was not.  I also read an article that said the police officer that shot Mike Brown was not aware, at that time, of the robbery.  That is not the reason he stopped Mike Brown.  We don't know the full story of what happened that night.  All we know is what the news media choses to tell us.  Are you really going to give them your full trust?  

 

I think Officer Wilson needs to be put on trial and let all the details about the case come out and let a jury decide. 

 

And if we are going to say it is okay to shoot and kill anyone with a criminal background (and since Windseeker mentioned Trayvon Martin--who was NOT killed by a police officer then the implication is that ANY of us can shoot...unarmed people)....let's get out there and get some of those sex offenders off the streets shall we?

 

We can't just shoot people because they have a criminal background.  If these were white young men being killed in such high numbers I doubt the public would sit back and justify it so easily.  For example, I remember when George W. Bush was in office and I was very frustrated with him (still am)---but when I complained about him everyone (figuratively speaking) told me I needed to support our leaders.  Be patriotic, etc. etc.  Those same people think nothing of make jokes, sometimes racist jokes about Obama.  

 

And once again....there are unarmed young black men who do not have criminal backgrounds being killed by police officers.  That is a problem and I suspect that is why this case got the interest of the United Nations.  

[Guest LiterateParakeet]

This is so true. I was arrested when I was about 21 because I went to my landlady's house to return the key to my place because I was moving. I knocked on her door, and I saw through the uncurtained window on her door that she picked up the phone. I waited patiently until she hung up. I waited about 10 more minutes and she still never came to the door. A police car pulled into the driveway while I was still waiting. When he came up he asked what I was doing. I told him that I was returning my key. The lady finally came to the door. I went to hand her my key, and requested our rent deposit back since we left the place nice and clean, just the way we rented it. She refused, saying we had left it a mess. 

 

 

How awful!  Sorry that happened to you. Sadly I'm not surprised.  Power corrupts.

 

 

But Michael Brown and Trayvon Martin were. 

 

So yes, the police are absolutely out of control which is a Government problem since the Police force happens to be the stick that it uses to enforce laws and maintain order. "Police bad...Big BrotherGovernment good"...wait whu? 

 

Race is the argument that our Press and current administration want their useful idiots to mire in so they can't focus on the real issue here. (the correct answer is Tyranny...if you haven't been paying attention)

Trayvon Martin was not shot by a police officer...are you saying any of us can shoot criminals?  

You are not phased in the least bit by those other unjustified deaths?  

Racism is a far deeper issue that the press and the current administration. They could go totally silent on the issue and it would not "just go away."  

[Guest]

We can't just shoot people because they have a criminal background.  If these were white young men being killed in such high numbers I doubt the public would sit back and justify it so easily.

 

Hello... the world is not black and white.  We, Asians, are always forgotten!  HELLO!  WE EXIST! 

 

We can shoot people - white, black, brown, yellow, purple - to defend ourselves.  But, people always think of race first.  Oh, a white guy killed a black guy... must be race hate crime!  Oh, a brown guy killed a black guy... must be a race hate crime, coz, you know, he's not really brown... he's more white than brown!  Oh, a black guy killed a black guy... well, must be some criminal gangsters.  A guy from India robbed a bank's computer... wait, what?  Are you sure he's not tech support?

Edited November 13, 2014 by anatess

[Just_A_Guy]

Whether of not Mike Brown was struggling is still in question.  From what I read, the autopsy seems to show he was not.

The autopsy makes no conclusory findings; it merely reports on the evidence found. The evidence showed powder residue on Brown's right hand and a wound consistent with a bullet graze wound on his inner right thumb; together suggesting that Brown's hand was on Wilson's firearm during at least one discharge. A link you cited to earlier cited this as suggesting that Brown was grasping the firearm from underneath, thumb on the muzzle end and pinky towards the handgrip, as if to push it up and away from himself--a defensive move. The trouble is that Brown was standing and Wilson still inside the car. Brown could just have easily been pushing down, trying to break Wilson's arm through the open window (or at least cause enough pain to get him to drop the weapon).

 

I think Officer Wilson needs to be put on trial and let all the details about the case come out and let a jury decide. 

Will you pay his $10k+ legal fees?

And of course, Wilson can only be convicted if he fails to raise a reasonable doubt as to his guilt. And acquittal will convince no one--juries don't find defendants "innocent", just "not guilty". By demanding he subject himself to a trial, one is implicitly stating that 1) no reasonable person could have a reasonable doubt as to Wilson's guilt, or 2) the jury should abandon the "reasonable doubt" standard due to the heinousness of the allegations.

 

And if we are going to say it is okay to shoot and kill anyone with a criminal background (and since Windseeker mentioned Trayvon Martin--who was NOT killed by a police officer then the implication is that ANY of us can shoot...unarmed people)....let's get out there and get some of those sex offenders off the streets shall we?

Of course not. But a propensity towards violence on the part of the shot person, strongly suggests that a shooter's self-defense claim is justified.

 

We can't just shoot people because they have a criminal background.  If these were white young men being killed in such high numbers I doubt the public would sit back and justify it so easily.  

Depends. In your hypothetical, does the incidence of violent crime in the white community approach that actually seen in the black community? And, in your hypothetical, has the white community been trained for half a century to blame another racial group for their own social problems?

 

And once again....there are unarmed young black men who do not have criminal backgrounds being killed by police officers. That is a problem and I suspect that is why this case got the interest of the United Nations.

Then why is the UN allowing the parents of a bona fide criminal be the ambassadors for the families of the truly innocent?

Trayvon Martin was not shot by a police officer...are you saying any of us can shoot criminals?  

If they are high, ambush us 'cause we looked at 'em wrong, pin us down MMA -style, and repeatedly slam our heads into a concrete sidewalk? You bet your boots we can.

[Palerider]

I agree with MormonGator.  The punishment for stealing is not the death penalty.

 

Whether of not Mike Brown was struggling is still in question.  From what I read, the autopsy seems to show he was not.  I also read an article that said the police officer that shot Mike Brown was not aware, at that time, of the robbery.  That is not the reason he stopped Mike Brown.  We don't know the full story of what happened that night.  All we know is what the news media choses to tell us.  Are you really going to give them your full trust?  

 

I think Officer Wilson needs to be put on trial and let all the details about the case come out and let a jury decide. 

 

And if we are going to say it is okay to shoot and kill anyone with a criminal background (and since Windseeker mentioned Trayvon Martin--who was NOT killed by a police officer then the implication is that ANY of us can shoot...unarmed people)....let's get out there and get some of those sex offenders off the streets shall we?

 

We can't just shoot people because they have a criminal background.  If these were white young men being killed in such high numbers I doubt the public would sit back and justify it so easily.  For example, I remember when George W. Bush was in office and I was very frustrated with him (still am)---but when I complained about him everyone (figuratively speaking) told me I needed to support our leaders.  Be patriotic, etc. etc.  Those same people think nothing of make jokes, sometimes racist jokes about Obama.  

 

And once again....there are unarmed young black men who do not have criminal backgrounds being killed by police officers.  That is a problem and I suspect that is why this case got the interest of the United Nations.

The officer did know that Mike Brown could have been a suspect in a strong arm robbery. I want Mike Browns friend who claimed his hands were up in the air when shot to be put on the witness stand. I think he has lied about some of the things that happened.

[Guest MormonGator]

. I want Mike Browns friend who claimed his hands were up in the air when shot to be put on the witness stand. I think he has lied about some of the things that happened.

I don't think it would matter. :-( People lie under oath all the time. 

[Palerider]

I don't think it would matter. :-( People lie under oath all the time.

It would matter very much....

[Palerider]

Some of the cities in and around Ferguson are passing out flyers telling their citizens to be prepared....when the Grand Jury announces their decision that they may need to stay inside their homes for a few days and what to have on hand...such as food and water and other type of items.

Somehow the KKK is going to be around when this all goes down. They too have been passing out leaflets.

[Guest MormonGator]

It would matter very much....

Oh, I'm not saying it isn't wrong. It's deeply wrong to swear on the bible and lie. Sorry if I came across wrong. 

[Guest LiterateParakeet]

 

We can shoot people - white, black, brown, yellow, purple - to defend ourselves.  

 

Yes, but my point was that many unarmed non-threatening young black men are being killed.  That is different than shooting someone to defend yourself.

 

The autopsy makes no conclusory findings; it merely reports on the evidence found. The evidence showed powder residue on Brown's right hand and a wound consistent with a bullet graze wound on his inner right thumb; together suggesting that Brown's hand was on Wilson's firearm during at least one discharge. A link you cited to earlier cited this as suggesting that Brown was grasping the firearm from underneath, thumb on the muzzle end and pinky towards the handgrip, as if to push it up and away from himself--a defensive move. The trouble is that Brown was standing and Wilson still inside the car. Brown could just have easily been pushing down, trying to break Wilson's arm through the open window (or at least cause enough pain to get him to drop the weapon).

 

Will you pay his $10k+ legal fees?

And of course, Wilson can only be convicted if he fails to raise a reasonable doubt as to his guilt. And acquittal will convince no one--juries don't find defendants "innocent", just "not guilty". By demanding he subject himself to a trial, one is implicitly stating that 1) no reasonable person could have a reasonable doubt as to Wilson's guilt, or 2) the jury should abandon the "reasonable doubt" standard due to the heinousness of the allegations.

 

 

About the autopsy...my point is the conflicting autopsy reports show that nothing is "for certain" in this case.  Even the gun residue is questionable according to this:

 

The forensic pathologist hired by Michael Brown's family said tonight that he is questioning the St. Louis County medical examiner's conclusion that the teen had gunshot residue on him after he was fatally shot by police.

 

Michael Baden conducted an autopsy on Brown's body in August at the request of the teen's family and concluded then that the teen could have been shot from as far away as 30 feet. A leaked copy of the St. Louis County medical examiner's autopsy report says microscopic particles of gunshot residue were found in a deep layer of skin, showing that the teen was shot once in his thumb at close range.

http://www.usatoday.com/story/news/nation/2014/10/29/browns-family-pathologist-questions-leaked-autopsy/18154107/

 

 

I hope the Grand Jury will agree with me that there is enough reason here for a trial.

 

How much it will cost Officer Williams to defend himself (he can get a public defender, like us poor folks do), or whether of not people will accept the outcome is not the issue here.  Jury by your peers is how we do things in this country.  

About the UN, I was only making my best guess.  Maybe Mike Brown's parents are the first to approach them?  

[Guest LiterateParakeet]

The officer did know that Mike Brown could have been a suspect in a strong arm robbery. 

 

The police chief says otherwise.

 

Chief Thomas Jackson also released documents and surveillance video, alleging that Mr. Brown was tied to a robbery at a convenience store shortly before he crossed paths with police. Hours later, Mr. Jackson held another news conference in which he said Mr. Wilson, who is white, wasn't aware of the robbery when he stopped Mr. Brown.

 

http://online.wsj.com/articles/police-name-darren-wilson-as-officer-in-ferguson-missouri-michael-brown-shooting-1408108371

 

[Palerider]

The police chief says otherwise.

You can quote and show whatever you want.....I hear it here all the time....the officer had suspicion that Mike Brown might be the suspect in a strong arm robbery.

[Palerider]

Can they prove he did know...perhaps not. We may find out when it all goes to trial. He also kept calling for back up and he never got help until after it all happened. Wait until the pics come out of the beating the officer got from the hands of Mike Brown. They are not releasing all evidence thru print and media.

[Just_A_Guy]

Yes, but my point was that many unarmed non-threatening young black men are being killed.  That is different than shooting someone to defend yourself.

 

About the autopsy...my point is the conflicting autopsy reports show that nothing is "for certain" in this case.  Even the gun residue is questionable according to this: [Extract from USA Today article]

 

Read the article carefully.  "Questioning" is a term of art; and in this case it's separate from "contesting".  Baden has no evidence that the coroner's identification of the residue as gunpowder, was inaccurate; he's merely asking the coroner to release the specifics as to how he made that identification. 

 

At any rate--this is quickly descending into the absurd.  One moment, Brown's supporters paint a pathetic portrait of a young kid trying to push a gun away in his last, death struggle.  But wait!  Now, he was never closer than thirty feet from Wilson!  Brown's apologists need to make up their minds here.  The way it looks now, they're simply bound and determined to put Wilson in jail; and they're making up the rationale as they go along.  Their star witness is the lying sack of filth who had knocked over a convenience store and manhandled the hapless store clerk, barely half an hour previously.  But apparently, there's no way Brown could have provoked the final altercation with Wilson; because when he wasn't knocking over convenience stores and smoking dope he was actually very nice boy who kissed babies and was kind to animals.

 

 

I hope the Grand Jury will agree with me that there is enough reason here for a trial.

 

How much it will cost Officer Williams to defend himself (he can get a public defender, like us poor folks do), or whether of not people will accept the outcome is not the issue here.  Jury by your peers is how we do things in this country. 

 

Jury by your peers is how we do things if a grand jury decides that a crime has been committed.  It's not a crime for a cop to stop a kid for jaywalking; it's not (so far as I know) a crime for a cop to use brandish a firearm in convincing a citizen to comply with a cop's lawful order; and it's not a crime for a cop to discharge that firearm if the noncomplying citizen thereafter resorts to an assault on the officer's person.

 

Forcing a person through a jury trial even though the State knows it can't convict him--and bankrupting the person in legal fees in the process--is most assuredly not how we (are supposed to) "do things" in this country.

 

And I strongly doubt Wilson will qualify for a public defender with his policeman's salary.  Hopefully his employer will indemnify him for his defense, since what he did was in the line of duty.

Edited November 14, 2014 by Just_A_Guy

[Guest LiterateParakeet]

You can quote and show whatever you want.....I hear it here all the time....the officer had suspicion that Mike Brown might be the suspect in a strong arm robbery.

 

I have a quote from the Chief of Police...what sources do your have to support your argument?

[Guest LiterateParakeet]

Jury by your peers is how we do things if a grand jury decides that a crime has been committed.  It's not a crime for a cop to stop a kid for jaywalking; it's not (so far as I know) a crime for a cop to use brandish a firearm in convincing a citizen to comply with a cop's lawful order; and it's not a crime for a cop to discharge that firearm if the noncomplying citizen thereafter resorts to an assault on the officer's person.

 

Forcing a person through a jury trial even though the State knows it can't convict him--and bankrupting the person in legal fees in the process--is most assuredly not how we (are supposed to) "do things" in this country.

 

And I strongly doubt Wilson will qualify for a public defender with his policeman's salary.  Hopefully his employer will indemnify him for his defense, since what he did was in the line of duty.

 

I agree that we should wait to see what the Grand Jury decides.  If they decide there is enough reason for a case, then there is enough reason...the outrageous fee Officer Wilson may have to pay to defend himself  is a problem with the system that I can't fix.  It's an issue people face every day.  If the PD agrees that he is innocent, they should indemnify him.  Time will tell.

 

It wasn't my intention to imply that we should force a jury trial.  I'm simply hoping that the Grand Jury agrees with me. What do you suppose is taking them so long anyway?

[Palerider]

I have a quote from the Chief of Police...what sources do your have to support your argument?

If you want to walk away from this feeling the victor go ahead. I am sticking by what I said. I know what I heard and I am very close to the area here. I here lots of things from a local perspective. But you go ahead with your source and claim victor here.

[Palerider]

I can tell you what's taking so long for their announcement.....it's rumored it's going to come down this weekend. Reason it took so long they will announce no charges against the officer. Communities are being prepared for protest and looting. Hey but again....I don't have a source so what do I know.

[Palerider]

The officers lawyer is a representative of the St Louis Police Officers Association. I would imagine his fees are not what yours or mine would be.

[Guest]

Yes, but my point was that many unarmed non-threatening young black men are being killed.  That is different than shooting someone to defend yourself.

 

And herein lies your bias.

 

What's your opinion on pitbulls?

Edited November 14, 2014 by anatess

[Windseeker]

Racism is a far deeper issue that the press and the current administration. They could go totally silent on the issue and it would not "just go away."  

 

No your never going to get rid of it completely. I agree that it's a deeper issue, but I don't think people are as affected by race as the media, the music industry, Hollywood, the press and the Democrat party want them to think they are. I see different races every time I walk into my own home, people of other races can actually get along believe it or not.

 

Certainly with all that power and influence and the in your face focus the last 20 years, things would have improved for our melanin enriched citizens but they have not. Why is that? Despite the ravings of our current Wizard of Oz and his equally corrupt heavy (Eric Holder) and other racist loudmouths on the left, more and more are looking behind the curtain and noticing that...wait a second..he's Black!....and he da MAN!

 

The reason it frustrates me so much is, it's not necessary, this issue should have been solved with the "I have a dream speech" that I quoted earlier. Instead not only do we have the Military Industrial Complex but a Environmental Industrial Complex, a Racial division industrial complex, a Gender inequity institutional complex and their service providers...the U.N.

 

What has the U.N. done about ISIS and their murder and slavery, or those 200 girls taken and enslaved.."crickets".  

 

The only sinister forces holding people back in this world are themselves, their character and the aforementioned profiteers of division. 

Edited November 14, 2014 by Windseeker

[Just_A_Guy]

It wasn't my intention to imply that we should force a jury trial.  I'm simply hoping that the Grand Jury agrees with me. What do you suppose is taking them so long anyway?

Dunno. It seems strange that we've been hearing leaks that the grand jury won't indict for a couple of weeks now; but even after that we've been hearing (unless I'm mistaken) about additional witnesses being called. The idea that the grand jury has already decided and the results are being deliberately delayed to give law enforcement time to gear up for the inevitable riots is beginning to wear thin to me--that strikes me as a reason to delay for hours or days, not weeks.

[Guest LiterateParakeet]

If you want to walk away from this feeling the victor go ahead. I am sticking by what I said. I know what I heard and I am very close to the area here. I here lots of things from a local perspective. But you go ahead with your source and claim victor here.

 

It is common in discussions to ask someone to back up their claims with reliable sources. I've seen it many times, and I would guess you have as well.  

 

Without you citing your sources, how can we weigh the different opinions put forth?

[Guest LiterateParakeet]

No your never going to get rid of it completely. I agree that it's a deeper issue, but I don't think people are as affected by race as the media, the music industry, Hollywood, the press and the Democrat party want them to think they are. I see different races every time I walk into my own home, people of other races can actually get along believe it or not.

 

But have you actually talked to People of Color about how they feel about racism, and whether it is still an issue or not?  The people I have talked to assure me it is still very much a problem in the US.

[Guest LiterateParakeet]

Dunno. It seems strange that we've been hearing leaks that the grand jury won't indict for a couple of weeks now; but even after that we've been hearing (unless I'm mistaken) about additional witnesses being called. The idea that the grand jury has already decided and the results are being deliberately delayed to give law enforcement time to gear up for the inevitable riots is beginning to wear thin to me--that strikes me as a reason to delay for hours or days, not weeks.

 

I have to agree that is a plausible possibility.  I hope it isn't right, but time will tell.