Temple/Endowment Issues

[carter_kun]

Hey there. I'm 18 and am scheduled to go on a mission on December 17th, but something happened yesterday that shattered my faith and testimony.

I went through the temple and received my endowments.

The whole duration while I was there, I had the worst feeling, and felt like nothing I was doing was right. While it all made sense to me and I understood everything, nothing felt like it was the right thing to do and that I shouldn't be there. But I went through with it anyway, due to the sheer amount of pressure placed upon me from my family and friends, and even my teacher that was getting get endowments at the same time.

I didn't feel right about what I did, and now I feel disgusting that I'm wearing garments. I still can't shake the feeling that none of it was good, and that I didn't feel the spirit there, or at least not in the way everyone else claims they do. I wasn't happy, and I'm not happy now.

Going through the temple seemed to break my testimony, and now I'm not sure I can go on a mission and teach people about how great the church is knowing that the temple ordinances I partook in weren't the right thing to be doing.

I'm worried that if I tell my parents they will be extremely disappointed, and so will the rest of my family and friends. Living in Utah, a lot of pressure is placed on me to do the "right thing" but how can I when it isn't right? I want to be a good example, because I am the oldest child on both sides of the family, but I can't be an example when I know that these things aren't good for my spiritual well being.

What should I do? I prayed last night that I would know what to do, and what was right and wrong, and still can't shake the thought that the temple experience I had was not good in any way. I'm not having that "stupor of thought" and keep feeling gross and, quite frankly, hating myself for what I did inside the temple.

I've been a Mormon my whole life, never questioning anything. But now, it feels so wrong. And don't get me wrong I still believe in a lot of the stuff, including baptism, the sacrament, and basically every other LDS doctrine and practice. But I felt so wrong in the temple, and I still do now.

What should I do...?

[pkstpaul]

You are not alone. I felt much the same way.  I wasn't headed on a mission but was getting married the next day.  Fortunately, my future husband felt the same way and we worked on it together.

 

Your parents will understand.  Your Bishop will understand.  If they don't, they aren't inline with others I have heard. 

 

One thing that might help, and others may say it, is go back to the temple.  Eventhough it might seem like it is brainwashing you (and it is), it is where you will get the inspiration about WHY the rites are important. 

 

Don't be afraid to talk to others. You may find people like me. 

 

Honestly, I would still go on the mission.  There is so much there to learn. There is so much more to that service than just converting others. It is the Spirit that will convert others. Your job is just to teach.

 

If I were your parent (and I am a parent), I would also support you not going. Life is long. You don't have to take this all in at once. 

 

Message me if you want a private conversation.

[The Folk Prophet]

Eventhough it might seem like it is brainwashing you (and it is), 

 

This is an extremely offensive thing to say on an lds forum. It's also ridiculous nonsense.

[carter_kun]

Well I understand why the rites would be important if it was the real deal, I understand everything. But that is up in the head. The feeling of it not being right comes from the soul.

I don't want to go on a mission because if I was telling people how amazing the church was (the church itself is great) i would feel like I would be cheating them because the temple, what seems to be our greatest goal, was really not that great.

I had a period of time where I didn't want to serve a mission and my family was very angry with me. If I denounce the temple, I can only imagine how mad they will be.

Also, I thought the temple process would be much more spiritual, but it turned out to be 100 percent religious, which is usually what I have found separates our church from others. I thought I would be receiving further instructions to help benefit myself and others to serve and do the things needed to become like Jesus, but instead ended up swearing to things I didn't agree to and learning things I felt were not necessary to my salvation or eternal life.

[pam]

This is an extremely offensive thing to say on an lds forum. It's also ridiculous nonsense.

 

I agree.  Not something you tell someone who is now struggling with a testimony.

[The Folk Prophet]

 The feeling of it not being right comes from the soul.

 

 

May be true. Doesn't make it wrong though. Either the thing is askew or the soul's askew. But one's feelings on something doesn't change whether that thing is good or bad. Truth and right is not relative to how we feel about it.

[classylady]

The church is more than just a nice little church that promotes family values.  It is a church that is Christ's church here on the earth.  It is the Lord's church that has been restored here upon the earth in the latter days.  The church's existence is to save souls and allow each of us to return to our Father in Heaven someday.  In order to do that, we must be baptized.  And we need the ordinances that are given us in the temple.  These ordinances have been given to us by Jesus Christ.  They are necessary.  Before being sealed in the temple we need to have our endowments.  The ordinances received in the temple can be very spiritual, if we allow it to be a spiritual experience.  What you did in the temple was not wrong or gross.  It was "right".  But, you may not have been ready to receive the ordinances.

 

The Gospel, the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints is the restored gospel here upon the earth.  The temple is His.  The ordinances are His.  They are a blessing in the lives of the members that allow us to be families throughout the eternities.  The ordinances in the temple allow ourselves and our ancestors to be 'bound' together forever.  I find this thought very comforting and spiritual.

[Jane_Doe]

Well I understand why the rites would be important if it was the real deal, I understand everything. But that is up in the head. The feeling of it not being right comes from the soul.

I don't want to go on a mission because if I was telling people how amazing the church was (the church itself is great) i would feel like I would be cheating them because the temple, what seems to be our greatest goal, was really not that great.

I had a period of time where I didn't want to serve a mission and my family was very angry with me. If I denounce the temple, I can only imagine how mad they will be.

Also, I thought the temple process would be much more spiritual, but it turned out to be 100 percent religious, which is usually what I have found separates our church from others. I thought I would be receiving further instructions to help benefit myself and others to serve and do the things needed to become like Jesus, but instead ended up swearing to things I didn't agree to and learning things I felt were not necessary to my salvation or eternal life.

 

 

Ok, first things first, let's take a deep breath.  You found something that freaks you out, and that's nothing to be ashamed about.  We all have things which don't sit well at first, or we don't understand.  I totally get the pressure you're going through to "put on a good face" and be the cool-collected eldest brother.  But just because you're the eldest doesn't mean you have to be superman and instantly perfect at everything.  Don't where a mask: be yourself and ask questions.  Adam, the eldest of us all, asked the Lord many questions including "Why the heck am I doing this crazy thing!?"  

 

Learn about the temple, ask questions to the Lord.  Ask questions of your folks, and any other trusted advisors.  Like other people here have said, you're not the first person here to be freaked out-- who knows, maybe even your mom was confused and can offer you guidance cause she's been there herself.

[pkstpaul]

This is an extremely offensive thing to say on an lds forum. It's also ridiculous nonsense.

Maybe there is a more polite term than "brainwashing", but that is exactly what it is and what it is intended to be. I'm not offended by it. I understand it. I accept it. The entire point of having an endowment session is to ingrain the covenents in your memory.  Train as a vail worker and understand why there has to be that exactness.

[omegaseamaster75]

This is an extremely offensive thing to say on an lds forum. It's also ridiculous nonsense.

is it? I didn't find it offensive, sounds like one persons opinion which I am in favor of talking about if it merits discussion. 

 

Going to the temple is just another step in the indoctrination process, (some will interpret this or take it the wrong way I  say it as a statement of fact and as one who is fully indoctrinated) which if you are BIC starts very early.

 

In response to the OP there is no shame in declining to go on your mission or putting it off until your testimony is stronger, and no shame in letting your leaders know about your experience and seeking help and further understanding about the covenants made and the obligations that are now expected of you as an endowed member.

[classylady]

Brainwashing is also not the correct term.

[jerome1232]

Have you read "The Holy Temple" by Boyd K. Packer? I personally love the book.

I agree with others, discuss your concerns with the Bishop, fast, pray and study on it. It seems you have already came to a conclusion on your own, I think it is unfortunate that you have rushed to it. If you believe that Thomas S. Monson is a prophet, how do you reconcile that with your feelings towards temple worship? Read some of his talks regarding the temple.

I suspect that what is throwing you, is the highly ritualistic nature of the temple and how it contrasts to our Sunday worship. I personally think that although the temple experience is a much more complex ritual than baptism, the sacrament, and priesthood blessings (did I miss anything?) all of them are equally as "weird" if you pull them out and examine them.

Saying a scripted prayer and dunking someone in water then telling them they've been reborn?

Saying a scripted prayer, eating bread that represents flesh, drinking water that represents blood?

Dribbling oil on someones head and saying a quasi-scripted prayer?

All of those things are highly symbolic, the difference is, I suspect, that the symbolism of baptism, sacrament, and priesthood blessings is well explained and culturally normalized, the temple ceremony we are left to interpret the symbolism, so it's not all as clear.

I hope you give this all serious thought and prayer, I hope you are brave enough to counsel with your bishop, and your parents. Best of luck to you on your journey.

Edited November 19, 2014 by jerome1232

[The Folk Prophet]

Maybe there is a more polite term than "brainwashing", but that is exactly what it is and what it is intended to be. I'm not offended by it. I understand it. I accept it. The entire point of having an endowment session is to ingrain the covenents in your memory.  Train as a vail worker and understand why there has to be that exactness.

 

Really? Teaching and learning (the ingraining of knowledge) is what you consider brainwashing? 

 

I cannot think of a way to respond to this that isn't mean...so I'll just drop it.

 

But it is an offensive term. It's condescending and flippant concerning things that are highly personal and highly sacred to a great many people, including me.

[carter_kun]

Yeah you guys are right it's not brain washing. I think conditioning would be a better term, as one could take that in a good way or bad way.

I've had my doubts about the church my whole life but have pushed through because, nobody is perfect and you can never reach a point where you know everything so much that you know it's true. But with all these things stacked up and this added on, it doesn't seem to work for me.

I prayed last night because I do believe that there is a God regardless of what religion you're in or whatever. I just asked to know what was wrong and right. I read The Holy Temple before my visit and just today after I originally posted this. It didn't provide much input and seemed to just reciprocate what everyone had told me, that it was the best experience ever and you felt the spirit so much.

I have studied a little bit of Buddhist material over the past few years and I have actually found that I have advanced spiritually so much more studying that as somewhat of a supplement to the Book of Mormon and Bible, and all of the church teachings. I know that in the church it is frowned upon to look into other religions, but that seems rather close minded. Joseph Smith himself looked into every church he possibly could and never found one, so he made one. I would never make a new church, but I think finding one that furthers your spiritual progress is the best, right? To try and be like Jesus and help your fellow man seems to be the meaning of life, for me anyways. And by fulfilling that, we can make it to heaven. That's what I've learned throughout all my years and what I learned in the temple is completely contrary to that, which makes me question it extremely.

[The Folk Prophet]

What do you care if it's frowned upon to look into other churches or not? If the church isn't true then who cares what they frown upon. And if it is true then by looking into other churches you will certainly settle on the lds church if your enquiry is sincere and humble.

 

Regardless, you'll never find truth by just "looking". You know exactly what you must do, and you clearly have not done it because if you had, you would have a burning conviction of the truth and nothing "weird" or otherwise uncomfortable you came up against in the church would throw you.

 

Get a testimony! It's as simple as that. You know how. You have not made the effort required. Until you make that effort, you will find yourself consistently floundering about in the world, whatever organization you settle on. You've lived off other's light. You cannot! Get your own.

 

As a point of interest, I can't say my first time through the temple was spiritual. I would dare say that may be common. It's overwhelming, confusing, and because it's entirely new, even a bit strange. That is the reality of facing something you've never done before. It can be awkward. There are many cultural things you do every day that you give no thought to whatsoever that other cultures in the world and time would find extremely strange. That doesn't make them wrong. We find things strange that are strange to us. Strange means outside of our experience. If all cats had five heads then a five headed cat would not be strange.

 

I remember the first time as I entered the temple and saw someone walking along in their temple robes and I thought it was a chef from the cafeteria. It was new to me. I had no frame of reference to understand it beyond that.

 

Having attended the temple thousands of times now, it is no longer strange. And it is, without a doubt, a highly spiritual place and I cherish my visits there.* It doesn't take long for the strangeness to wear off though.

 

Humble yourself and go get a testimony. That's the best advice I or anyone else can give you.

 

edit: * maybe this is just because I'm brainwashed though.

Edited November 19, 2014 by The Folk Prophet

[Just_A_Guy]

I know that in the church it is frowned upon to look into other religions, but that seems rather close minded.

 

Not frowned upon at all; just need to keep it in proper perspective.

 

 

I would never make a new church, but I think finding one that furthers your spiritual progress is the best, right? To try and be like Jesus and help your fellow man seems to be the meaning of life, for me anyways. And by fulfilling that, we can make it to heaven. That's what I've learned throughout all my years and what I learned in the temple is completely contrary to that, which makes me question it extremely.

 

Unfortunately, this isn't a proper venue to explore your concerns here in-depth; but I'd second the advice to discuss your concerns with a bishop or other trusted friend who has been through the temple rite.  Because frankly, becoming like Jesus and ultimately being returned to His and the Father's presence after demonstrating obedience, sacrifice, holiness, chastity, and consecration, is (in my view) the entire point of the LDS temple endowment.

 

Also, a hint:  The power of the creation tale as told in the temple is in its allegory, not its historocity.  Indeed, there are specific parts of the "temple drama" that, per our doctrinal interpretations, cannot have happened (at least, not the way they are shown in the temple).  The Church will not spoon-feed you the meanings and applications within that allegory--you have to wrestle with them yourself.  Temple learning doesn't come because you watch the video again and again and again.  It comes through individual revelations that you receive as you ponder--and occasionally wrestle with--specific elements of the temple rite and try to develop a paradigm with which to approach and interpret it. 

 

I won't tell you that you should just bite the bullet and go back to the temple, again and again, until you start "feeling it".  Nor will I tell you that you should serve a mission in your present state of doubt.  But I will tell you that you might want to consider that there may be additional layers to the temple rite that you're missing, but that provide deep insight and spiritual strength to other members.  What you want to do with that information, is your own business.  But, here's an example:  Archaeological digs at Megiddo have yielded what appear to be long-handled incense spoons, dating to the period of the first Jewish Temple.  The exterior of these spoons are adorned with carvings of human hands . . . in cupping shape.  (Pics . . . look at the first three pics of the second row--these are from other sites in ancient Israel.)

 

Whatever you decide to do--I sincerely wish you the best of luck.  It's hard to have a family expecting things you don't think you can deliver . . .

Edited November 19, 2014 by Just_A_Guy

[Backroads]

Don't take this wrong way but... stop assuming you know everything about the temple. You are in disequilibrium right now. That's not necessarily wrong, just is what it is, but insisting you know everything will keep you from moving anywhere on this issue. Be humble, don't make any big decisions on faith or a mission for awhile, and reexamine this issue.

[Jane_Doe]

Carter_Kun, this is going to sound crazy but---

 

I’m so happy this is happening to you!!!!  Not the pain and confusion part, but fact that you’re learning to examine theology and faith and stand on your own spiritual two feet!  Yes, the confusion sucks, but it’ll pass (just like teenage acne ).  

 

Questioning is not evil—far from it!  The Savior Himself said “Knock and it shall be opened unto you”.  Joseph Smith asked questions.  Missionaries quote James, asking people to pray and ask God whom gives to all men liberally.

 

As to looking at other religions, go ahead (in my opinion).  I believe that there is beauty and truth in all faiths, precisely because God gives wisdom liberally to those that seek it (even if they come from a Buddhist background).

 

When you do go look at religions (including LDS) I would have a few suggestions:

1)    Go with a question and search the answer.  Otherwise you run the risk of constantly being rabbit-trailed and ending up with 500 half-investigated ideas. 

2)    Study each line upon line: take ideas apart and look at them analytically and with faith.

3)    Judge the quality of the ideas presented and not how cute the presenter it.

4)    Always pray and keep the Savior in your heart.

 

I would take the time to search for faith yourself.  Search the scriptures, pray, take time to study.  Ask questions to God, others, and yourself.  I feel this will make you a stronger missionary and person in the long run, even if it means delaying your formal mission a few months.

 

*Edit: Point 5)  Like an idea and having it be true are two different things.  

Point 6)  Just because an idea seems unfamiliar doesn't mean it's wrong or right.

Edited November 20, 2014 by Jane_Doe

[Vort]

 But I felt so wrong in the temple, and I still do now.

What should I do...?

 

My advice to you is: Go to the temple and do a session. Then go through it again. Then do it again.

 

You are being given gifts in the temple, which is why it is called an "endowment". But these gifts are not light, fluffy things. They are meaty, substantial, and very sacred things. The Prophet Joseph Smith taught:

 

The things of God are of deep import; and time, and experience, and careful and ponderous and solemn thoughts can only find them out.

 

The more familiar you get with the endowment, the less strange and bizarre-seeming it will be. The presentation will stop being so troubling, and instead you will begin to see the rock-solid realities that lie beyond the symbols.

 

I don't know why some people react so badly to the temple. I have never understood that. I found the endowment both interesting and engaging from the very beginning, and the endowment presentation I first experienced was undoubtedly "stranger" than yours. Yet it seemed not at all troubling or disturbing, or at least no more than any other highly symbolic presentation. But my older brother reacted quite negatively to it the first time. (Today, he loves going to the temple and finds it inspiring and profoundly moving.) One of my sons, who is much like me in personality and thought, also found the endowment presentation strange and a bit disturbing. I have no explanation for such things, and can only shake my head in wonder at the severely varied reactions people first have to the endowment presentation.

 

tl;dr takeaway: You are not the first to feel that way, nor will you be the last. But rest assured of two things: First, not everyone has that same reaction; second, if you continue to go to the temple with sincerity of heart, the strangeness will pass and you will begin to see past the formalities of the presentation and start to grasp the amazing and beautiful promised realities behind them.

Edited November 20, 2014 by Vort

[Jane_Doe]

 

 

I remember the first time as I entered the temple and saw someone walking along in their temple robes and I thought it was a chef from the cafeteria. It was new to me. 

 

Lol!

[PolarVortex]

We humans sometimes regard all unfamiliar things as scary or bad.  When I was in the Air Force, I met many people who were constantly moving from base to base over the course of their careers.  They'd stay a few years at one base and then move to some other completely different base, often in another part of the world.  You may be surprised to hear this, but Air Force bases are quite different from each other, or at least they were when I served.  Very, very different.

 

There was a very well-known psychological effect that kicked in when people moved to a new base.  They hated it instantly and could only see the strange and unfamiliar and negative aspects of it, and they quickly came to regard their previous base as some sort of paradise.  There was even a little slogan or proverb that encapsulated this idea, but I forget what it was.

 

To put it another way, suppose a Martian came to Earth and decided to study Judaism, Catholicism, and Mormonism.  The Martian would discover that Jews cut off parts of a boy's private parts soon after birth, that the Catholics eat the body and drink the blood of their God, and that the Mormons go to temples and make promises to God.  If the Martian raised his eyebrows (all 3 of them) over any of this, it probably wouldn't be over Mormonism.  We humans don't regard circumcision or the Eucharist as strange or evil, but to a first-time visitor they might seem very scary.

 

I have not been through the temple, but I know something about it (from approved sources) and am prepared to accept it more as a work of guiding art than as a mathematical equation.  Metaphor and mystery are sometimes the most direct paths to God.

 

And maybe "conditioning" is too strong a word.  I read somewhere that the temple ceremonies were created for uneducated rural people of the 19th century who learned better from drama, repetition, and ritual.  Who knows, if the Prophet had revealed the endowment in the Internet age, it might have looked very different indeed. 

[PolarVortex]

Lol!

 

LOL too.  I can't resist telling the urban legend I heard during a visit to the Washington DC temple in 1996.  According to the story, the temple cafeteria there sold really good food at low prices, so one LDS member lent her recommend to a non-LDS neighbor, who would go there to eat.  Her fraud was discovered one day when she asked where she could get a cup of coffee.

Edited November 20, 2014 by PolarVortex

[sxfritz]

I know that in the church it is frowned upon to look into other religions...

I've never heard this nor do I believe it. I think we should teach about other faiths, from a perspective of faith (i.e. as a Catholic would teach).  It is important for us to understand other's faith. It is instrumental in us effectively teaching our faith. I know I might have critics who would rightly say it is only important to teach the truth and the Spirit converts, but it is also important to not offend people of faith or unintentionally sound critical of them.

 

Slightly off topic of the temple rights topic, I know, but I generally agree with the other comments.

 

The definition of 'brainwashing' includes the component of "force", and that may be why some felt it offensive to be suggested they were brainwashed. The Endowment does not have the element of force, but for an uninformed, or unprepared young person to walk in and not feel empowered to walk out, they may feel they were forced (as I believe carter_kun expressed). 

[Silhouette]

Yeah you guys are right it's not brain washing. I think conditioning would be a better term, as one could take that in a good way or bad way.

I've had my doubts about the church my whole life but have pushed through because, nobody is perfect and you can never reach a point where you know everything so much that you know it's true. But with all these things stacked up and this added on, it doesn't seem to work for me.

I prayed last night because I do believe that there is a God regardless of what religion you're in or whatever. I just asked to know what was wrong and right. I read The Holy Temple before my visit and just today after I originally posted this. It didn't provide much input and seemed to just reciprocate what everyone had told me, that it was the best experience ever and you felt the spirit so much.

I have studied a little bit of Buddhist material over the past few years and I have actually found that I have advanced spiritually so much more studying that as somewhat of a supplement to the Book of Mormon and Bible, and all of the church teachings. I know that in the church it is frowned upon to look into other religions, but that seems rather close minded. Joseph Smith himself looked into every church he possibly could and never found one, so he made one. I would never make a new church, but I think finding one that furthers your spiritual progress is the best, right? To try and be like Jesus and help your fellow man seems to be the meaning of life, for me anyways. And by fulfilling that, we can make it to heaven. That's what I've learned throughout all my years and what I learned in the temple is completely contrary to that, which makes me question it extremely.

Joseph Smith didn't "make" a church or religion. He was the instrument by which the Gospel of Jesus Christ was restored to the Earth. He restored the Church, but he didn't "make" one.

[StallionMcBeastly]

It's your life, if you don't want to go on a mission, or are unsure,then wait or don't go. I know the pressure is huge, but be strong enough to make the best decision for yourself. If you aren't sure if you believe the church then you won't be happy telling other people they should for two years. Good luck!