Shaken Faith Syndrome - What brings it on


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LiterateParakeet, on 24 Nov 2014 - 03:18 AM, said:snapback.png

I would be interested in hearing more about your experience (if your comfortable sharing) and how you have come to this conclusion, assuiming I'm not reading too much into it.

 

Okay, first, I apologize...I haven't read the other comments in the thread.  Before I do so I want to answer THP's question about my experience.  Then I will try to read the rest of the thread...I make no promises though because this is still a painful topic for me.  

I answered part of the question earlier about why I feel this can happen to anyone.  Now, I'll just share my experience.  Part of what happened to me is something only very few will experience (I recognize that).

 

My parents didn't attend church so I found Christ on my own at 10 years old.  From that time forward Heavenly Father and Christ were an important part of my life.  I wrote about this in my book:

I had had a close personal relationship with Christ.  This relationship had sustained me during many difficult times. Looking back, as a teenager with two alcoholic parents, there was one night my parents didn’t bother to come home. I lay awake frantic that they had either been put in jail, or they were in the hospital. Prayer got me through that night and I began to know my Comforter. From Arizona, where I was born, through my experiences in Venezuela, Alaska, Utah, and Washington, He was my Guide. He led me to a wonderful husband. When a miscarriage at 12 weeks broke my heart, He mended it. When death claimed a teenage niece and nephew, He wept with me. As my husband’s failing business, subsequent job layoffs, bankruptcy, and foreclosure dropped me to my knees, He was my Staff. When life-threatening health issues frightened me, He calmed the troubled sea in my soul. Truly He was my Bread of Life.

 

Then, memories of childhood sexual abuse began to surface. I became acquainted with a pain that surpassed anything I had experienced before. And I felt utterly alone. Where was my Savior, my Balm of Gilead, now? I could not feel Him. I became angry. How could God allow this to happen to me, and why had He forsaken me when I needed Him the most?

 

“Unclean, unclean,” became my heart’s mantra. I saw myself as an emotional leper. Without Christ, I was adrift. For a short time, I even considered atheism—but He had been too much a part of my life to let go. I grieved the loss of this relationship as I shouldered the staggering pain of the past. I turned to the Church seeking comfort and answers, but well-intended messages of forgiveness only increased my pain. If I were a better person, I thought, I could forgive. Shame, like a black mold, filled me until one day when I did feel the Savior reaching out to me I turned away from Him. 

 

 

During this time, I couldn't attend the temple.  I tried.  My leaders assured me I was worthy.  I wanted to feel the peace that had always been a part of temple attendance before--but the shame I felt was so great that i did not feel worthy to be there regardless of what my leaders said.  

 

My Bishop suggested that I read the Book of Mormon.  This seemed like a good idea because the Book of Mormon had been such a comfort to me in the past and as a missionary I had seen the joy and peace it brought into other people's lives.  So I tried to read it...but it felt like the theme of 1st and 2nd Nephi was completely about repentance....and that increased my shame.  I was vile, and the scriptures seemed like conformation of that.

 

I almost stopped attending church (so many things there added to my pain), and stopped believing in God.  And yet, I remembered that Heavenly Father and Christ had been very important to me before, so I just couldn't let go without one more try.

I was meeting with my Bishop and he said something that created a paradigm shift.  I told Him that in the past I had felt close to the Savior, but now if He approached me I would just want to crawl under a rock and hide.

 

My Bishop thoughtfully considered this and said, "If you don't feel comfortable embracing Him, what if you do as that woman in the scriptures and just reach out and touch His robe."

 

I knew that was my answer. I didn't quite know how things would change, but I knew that was the starting point.

 

So I switched from reading the Book of Mormon to the New Testament.  I needed to rebuild my relationship with Christ, first and foremost.  I needed to know that He not only accepted me as vile as I felt I was, but that He cared about what happened to me (counsel to forgive sure made me feel otherwise...it seemed to say "what happened to you doesn't matter, just forgive and move on").  I needed to know why He had allowed the abuse to happen. And other questions....

 

I had never stopped praying through out my ordeal, but at this time my prayers changed.  I became more honest with Heavenly Father.  I poured out my heart to Him and told Him how angry I was with Him, and how hurt I was that He had abandoned me when I needed Him the most.  I thought for sure lightening would strike me (not literally, but I expected to feel guilty)...but it didn't.  Instead I felt the first peace I had felt in a long time. It felt like He was saying, "Good job Leslie, you've taken the first step toward coming back to me."  He was not bothered in the least that I was angry with him.

 

I have to run--Mom business.  Have I gone on too long, or would you like to know WHY I think that I felt abandoned when I needed God the most?  Was it Him or me?  I have some thoughts on that for sure!  For now suffice it to say, I am feeling close to Heavenly Father and Christ again.  I love the gospel.  I do find some of "Mormon Culture" still hard...maybe it's just me, maybe it is the culture...I'll keep working through that. But the most important thing is that I have re-established my relationship  with Heavenly Father and Christ.  Most of the answers I needed came through Christ's life, example and Atonement.

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I have to run--Mom business.  Have I gone on too long, or would you like to know WHY I think that I felt abandoned when I needed God the most?  Was it Him or me?  I have some thoughts on that for sure!  For now suffice it to say, I am feeling close to Heavenly Father and Christ again.  I love the gospel.  I do find some of "Mormon Culture" still hard...maybe it's just me, maybe it is the culture...I'll keep working through that. But the most important thing is that I have re-established my relationship  with Heavenly Father and Christ.  Most of the answers I needed came through Christ's life, example and Atonement.

 

Very much enjoying. Very moving. Please go on when you can. Thank you for sharing what is obviously deeply personal.

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Have I gone on too long, or would you like to know WHY I think that I felt abandoned when I needed God the most?  Was it Him or me?  I have some thoughts on that for sure!  For now suffice it to say, I am feeling close to Heavenly Father and Christ again.  I love the gospel.  I do find some of "Mormon Culture" still hard...maybe it's just me, maybe it is the culture...I'll keep working through that. But the most important thing is that I have re-established my relationship  with Heavenly Father and Christ.  Most of the answers I needed came through Christ's life, example and Atonement.

 

LP.. Leslie.. that's powerful ... "Touching His Robe" ...  Love it!  Pure inspiration from our Father straight to your bishop.

 

Have you gone on too long?  Not a chance!  I think most of us following this discussion would love to hear whatever you feel inclined and comfortable sharing.  

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Reasons which give evidence to shaken faith and its causes are, at least from what I am able to deduct:

 

1) The children of God have been given sufficient knowledge and have been given agency.  With their knowledge and agency they choose evil rather than good.  They choose not to love God.  (Moses 7: 29-34).  

 

2) In connection with #1 they invert the first two great commandments. (Matthew 22: 37-39)

 

3) They begin to forget the "rock" upon which they are built. (Heleman 5:12)

 

4) Halt between two opinions (1 Kings 18:21) -- Correlates with #1 & #2

 

5) They cling to the rod rather than holding fast to the rod. (1 Nephi 8:24-25) I view clinging to the rod individuals who like to pick and choose which commandments are important (itching ears).

 

6) They know not the dealings of that God that gave them life/breath and murmur. (1 Nephi 2: 12)

 

7) What we believe, what we feel we know, and what is truth do not confirm each other. 

 

8) Life circumstances cause the temptation that we "walk alone" and that "we are of little worth -- not important" (my personal opinion, this is one of the adversaries greatest temptations to shake our faith especially during significant trials).

 

9) Rationalization, Justification, and compromise of truth/right.

 

These would be at the top of my list regarding "shaken faith". 

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So I've been thinking about it and I had this thought:

 

It seems like there are certain people who are incapable (and, to be fair and to stick with my "not a victim" ideology, I'll change that to "less capable") of separating thought from emotion. Specifically, they struggle with thinking differently than they feel. (This may be incredibly biased to say...but it may be more common in the women.  :eek:)

 

I wonder if that plays into it at all.

 

Ultimately, feeling strongly about something has no bearing on truth. Example: Plural marriage is or is not a true principle. How any given person felt about it in the day, or feels about it now, that has no bearing on it's rightness or wrongness. But if they brought plural marriage back, how many would experience shaken faith syndrome from it because of how they feel? -- Even if they were not required to actually live it (which hardly anyone was "required" to even back in the day).

 

Many shaken faith issues seem to stem, ultimately, from emotion rather than intellect. Sure, many claim intellect. It's not (imo). It's how the feel about what they learn and think that really matters.

 

Anyhow...it's a thought worth considering.

 

I wonder if being able/learning to separate our thoughts from our feelings somewhat is not an important part of the test here. Take the Abraham example. No one would feel good about having to do that. But do we obey in spite of our feelings? That may be key.

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 But do we obey in spite of our feelings? That may be key.

 

 

Abraham 3: 24-25, confirms this.  If we are to be like Christ, we should not shrink when asked to drink a bitter cup -- although we fall short -- thank God for his Son who did not.

 

 

*************

 

Oh wait better remember the link

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I had never stopped praying through out my ordeal, but at this time my prayers changed.  I became more honest with Heavenly Father.  I poured out my heart to Him and told Him how angry I was with Him, and how hurt I was that He had abandoned me when I needed Him the most.  I thought for sure lightening would strike me (not literally, but I expected to feel guilty)...but it didn't.  Instead I felt the first peace I had felt in a long time. It felt like He was saying, "Good job Leslie, you've taken the first step toward coming back to me."  He was not bothered in the least that I was angry with him.

 

Thank you for sharing a very personal and touching experience. It took me a long time in life to realize that the above.  

 

I think being a parent has more reinforced that; so many times my kids might get really angry at me for enacting some sort of discipline or some rule.  As a parent, I don't take offence when they do get mad at me; I try to help them by having them explain to me why they are angry and then I explain to them the rules and that if they did this or that differently they wouldn't be angry about the situation and at me (or better yet have them figure out the solution!).

 

I've learned that being angry at God can be a very natural emotion given how life plays out.  I've also learned that in general being angry at God doesn't really do any good (except maybe making me feel temporarily better).  I find that when I am humble and submissive to God, willing to submit through whatever fire is put in my path-those are the times when I find lasting peace.

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LiterateParakeet, on 24 Nov 2014 - 03:18 AM, said:snapback.png

 

I'm interested LitPara. You're applying personal experience to ALL the world. That strikes me as a stretch. As much as I accept that any of us can fall away if we do not remain diligent in our obedience, study, faith, prayers, and the like, the context of your post seems to imply that it can hit anyone in spite of these things. I would be interested in hearing more about your experience (if your comfortable sharing) and how you have come to this conclusion, assuiming I'm not reading too much into it.

 

As a broader discussion, I'd like to discuss the causes of shaken faith syndrome and what we can do to avoid or overcome it.

 

anything can cause it when you let the spirit leave and your testimony slide.

Usually by whatever sword you live your life by.

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If your faith is in anything or anyone at all other than Jesus Christ, you will fall. 

 

 

24 Therefore, whoso heareth these sayings of mine and doeth them, I will liken him unto a wise man, who built his house upon a rock—

 25 And the rain descended, and the floods came, and the winds blew, and beat upon that house; and it fell not, for it was founded upon a rock.

 26 And every one that heareth these sayings of mine and doeth them not shall be likened unto a foolish man, who built his house upon the sand—

 27 And the rain descended, and the floods came, and the winds blew, and beat upon that house; and it fell, and great was the fall of it.

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So I've been thinking about it and I had this thought:

 

It seems like there are certain people who are incapable (and, to be fair and to stick with my "not a victim" ideology, I'll change that to "less capable") of separating thought from emotion. Specifically, they struggle with thinking differently than they feel. (This may be incredibly biased to say...but it may be more common in the women.  :eek:)

 

I wonder if that plays into it at all.

 

Ultimately, feeling strongly about something has no bearing on truth. Example: Plural marriage is or is not a true principle. How any given person felt about it in the day, or feels about it now, that has no bearing on it's rightness or wrongness. But if they brought plural marriage back, how many would experience shaken faith syndrome from it because of how they feel? -- Even if they were not required to actually live it (which hardly anyone was "required" to even back in the day).

 

 

Umm... why were we trying to separate intellect from emotion?  I won't want to convert to the church because of just intellect or just emotion: you should gibe you WHOLE self to God.  If your faith is shaken, it doesn't just effect your intellect, it effects your whole self.

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Guest LiterateParakeet

Sorry for the delay...but ya know...Thanksgiving and all.   :)

 

This experience of feeling separated from God when you have done nothing wrong, is what I call the "jaws of hell".  Hell is separation from God, after all.

 

C.S. Lewis felt the jaws of hell after his wife died:

 

“Meanwhile, where is God? This is one of the most disquieting symptoms. When you are happy, so happy that you have no sense of needing Him, so happy that you are tempted to feel His claims upon you as an interruption, if you remember yourself and turn to Him with gratitude and praise, you will be – or so it feels – welcomed with open arms. But go to Him when your need is desperate, when all other help is vain, and what do you find? A door slammed in your face, and a sound of bolting and double bolting on the inside. After that, silence. You may as well turn away. The longer you wait, the more emphatic the silence will become.” C.S. Lewis, A Grief Observed

 

Joseph Smith may have felt it in Liberty Jail, judging by his words in D&C 121 "O God, where art thou? And where is the pavilion that covereth thy hiding place?  How long shall thy hand be stayed, and thine eye, yea thy pure eye, behold from the eternal heavens the wrongs of thy people and of thy servants, and thine ear be penetrated with their cries?"

 

The most heart-wrenching though is when the Savior experienced it on the cross and cried out, "My God, my god, why hast thou forsaken me? (Matthew 27:46)   Forsake means to abandon . . .

 

In my mind there are two possibilities.  

 

The first comes from Luke 24.  Remember two disciples were walking on the road to Emmaus discussing the Savior's death and all that was related.  The Savior appeared and walked with them, talking to them, teaching them and yet...they didn't know it was Him because:

 

 16 But their eyes were holden that they should not know him. (Luke 24:16)

 

It is possible that sometimes the comfort and knowledge of His nearness is withheld  from us.

 

The second possibility is this:

 

In a thought-provoking and popular book, The Shack by William P. Young, the main character, Mackenzie, has an opportunity to talk to God face to face. . . . Mackenzie had reason to feel hurt and abandoned by God. He finds the courage to express his pain and anger. He accuses God of abandoning him, and even abandoning Jesus on the cross.

 

In the story, God says, “You misunderstood the mystery there. Regardless of what He felt at that moment, I never left Him.”

 

Mackenzie doesn’t accept that and repeats his accusation.

 

God says, “Mackenzie, I never left Him, and I have never left you . . . Will you at least consider this: When all you can see is your pain, perhaps then you lose sight of me?”

 

Tears came to my eyes the first time I read that. Could it be possible? Was it my own pain and shame causing a blind spot all along? 

 

As more time passes, I believe it is the second one.  I think my own pain and shame blocked my ability to feel His presence.  But the answers I found to my questions reassure me that like the disciples on the road to Emmaus, even though I wasn't aware of His presence, He was there guiding me and teaching me every step of the journey.

 

 

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I love stories of healing.  Thank you, so much, LP. 

 

A couple links that I found that I wish to share:

 

1. "Shaken Faith Syndrome

2. Fan the fires of your Faith  - "Let me be clear on this point: I am not asking you to pretend to faith you do not have. I am asking you to be true to the faith you do have. Sometimes we act as if an honest declaration of doubt is a higher manifestation of moral courage than is an honest declaration of faith. It is not!"

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LiterateParakeet, on 24 Nov 2014 - 03:18 AM, said:snapback.png

I'm interested LitPara. You're applying personal experience to ALL the world. That strikes me as a stretch. As much as I accept that any of us can fall away if we do not remain diligent in our obedience, study, faith, prayers, and the like, the context of your post seems to imply that it can hit anyone in spite of these things. I would be interested in hearing more about your experience (if your comfortable sharing) and how you have come to this conclusion, assuiming I'm not reading too much into it.

As a broader discussion, I'd like to discuss the causes of shaken faith syndrome and what we can do to avoid or overcome it.

Many people can have shaken faith despite being diligent and obedient in nourishing our spirit (prayer, scripture study etc.). Its a great over simplification to think that if one is diligent then they will never have a faith crisis. Prayer and scripture study doesn't magically cure all ailments. IMO, the church has done its members a great disservice in the way it presents its history. In church I was taught a near fictional representation of early church leaders and events. When I began learning of controversial issues that occasionally blot church history I was distraught. I grew up being taught of a nearly infallible church being led by leaders that were almost perfect. When the truth emerged that our history isn't quite the polished fairytale Id been taught, I had a struggle of faith. It was a real and difficult struggle. I felt lied too, misled, and deceived. It's easy to say "oh, he must have never really had a strong testimony" - but that is an easy cop out response. The truth is that when historical facts contradict what you've been taught in church, it feels as if you're world has been turned upside down. People who have these struggles shouldnt be labeled as weaklings or apostates, but they have a real conflict of conscience that needs to be understood. They need compassion. What have I done? I have realized that belief is a choice. I still choose to believe, despite the difficult history and other issues, because it makes me happy.

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Many people can have shaken faith despite being diligent and obedient in nourishing our spirit (prayer, scripture study etc.). Its a great over simplification to think that if one is diligent then they will never have a faith crisis. Prayer and scripture study doesn't magically cure all ailments. IMO, the church has done its members a great disservice in the way it presents its history. In church I was taught a near fictional representation of early church leaders and events. When I began learning of controversial issues that occasionally blot church history I was distraught. I grew up being taught of a nearly infallible church being led by leaders that were almost perfect. When the truth emerged that our history isn't quite the polished fairytale Id been taught, I had a struggle of faith. It was a real and difficult struggle. I felt lied too, misled, and deceived. It's easy to say "oh, he must have never really had a strong testimony" - but that is an easy cop out response. The truth is that when historical facts contradict what you've been taught in church, it feels as if you're world has been turned upside down. People who have these struggles shouldnt be labeled as weaklings or apostates, but they have a real conflict of conscience that needs to be understood. They need compassion. What have I done? I have realized that belief is a choice. I still choose to believe, despite the difficult history and other issues, because it makes me happy.

 

If two people both learn the so-called "fairly tale" history, and then they both discover the so-called "true" history, and the one experiences shaken faith, and the other does not, then what would you ascribe the difference too if it is not testimony?

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Sorry for the delay...but ya know...Thanksgiving and all.   :)

 

This experience of feeling separated from God when you have done nothing wrong, is what I call the "jaws of hell".  Hell is separation from God, after all.

 

C.S. Lewis felt the jaws of hell after his wife died:

 

“Meanwhile, where is God? This is one of the most disquieting symptoms. When you are happy, so happy that you have no sense of needing Him, so happy that you are tempted to feel His claims upon you as an interruption, if you remember yourself and turn to Him with gratitude and praise, you will be – or so it feels – welcomed with open arms. But go to Him when your need is desperate, when all other help is vain, and what do you find? A door slammed in your face, and a sound of bolting and double bolting on the inside. After that, silence. You may as well turn away. The longer you wait, the more emphatic the silence will become.” C.S. Lewis, A Grief Observed

 

Joseph Smith may have felt it in Liberty Jail, judging by his words in D&C 121 "O God, where art thou? And where is the pavilion that covereth thy hiding place?  How long shall thy hand be stayed, and thine eye, yea thy pure eye, behold from the eternal heavens the wrongs of thy people and of thy servants, and thine ear be penetrated with their cries?"

 

The most heart-wrenching though is when the Savior experienced it on the cross and cried out, "My God, my god, why hast thou forsaken me? (Matthew 27:46)   Forsake means to abandon . . .

 

In my mind there are two possibilities.  

 

The first comes from Luke 24.  Remember two disciples were walking on the road to Emmaus discussing the Savior's death and all that was related.  The Savior appeared and walked with them, talking to them, teaching them and yet...they didn't know it was Him because:

 

 16 But their eyes were holden that they should not know him. (Luke 24:16)

 

It is possible that sometimes the comfort and knowledge of His nearness is withheld  from us.

 

The second possibility is this:

 

In a thought-provoking and popular book, The Shack by William P. Young, the main character, Mackenzie, has an opportunity to talk to God face to face. . . . Mackenzie had reason to feel hurt and abandoned by God. He finds the courage to express his pain and anger. He accuses God of abandoning him, and even abandoning Jesus on the cross.

 

In the story, God says, “You misunderstood the mystery there. Regardless of what He felt at that moment, I never left Him.”

 

Mackenzie doesn’t accept that and repeats his accusation.

 

God says, “Mackenzie, I never left Him, and I have never left you . . . Will you at least consider this: When all you can see is your pain, perhaps then you lose sight of me?”

 

Tears came to my eyes the first time I read that. Could it be possible? Was it my own pain and shame causing a blind spot all along? 

 

As more time passes, I believe it is the second one.  I think my own pain and shame blocked my ability to feel His presence.  But the answers I found to my questions reassure me that like the disciples on the road to Emmaus, even though I wasn't aware of His presence, He was there guiding me and teaching me every step of the journey.

 

I appreciate the thoughts.

 

By way of expounding on things and furthering the conversation I had the following thought:

 

So I'm not sure using Joseph Smith in liberty jail or Jesus on the cross and their experiences of feeling abandoned translates to shaken faith. Joseph, being human, of course did not have perfect faith, though we don't really know what his faith level was based on his mourning, but certainly the savior never experienced shaken faith.

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Guest LiterateParakeet

So I'm not sure using Joseph Smith in liberty jail or Jesus on the cross and their experiences of feeling abandoned translates to shaken faith. Joseph, being human, of course did not have perfect faith, though we don't really know what his faith level was based on his mourning, but certainly the savior never experienced shaken faith.

 

TFP, it wasn't my intention to imply that they had shaken faith.  That was a follow up on my previous post--sharing my experience which you asked for.  :)   MY faith was shaken because of the jaws of hell experience that I had.  In trying to understand what had occurred--why I suddenly felt abandoned when I needed the Lord the most--I realized that I was not alone in having that experience of feeling alone in your darkest moments, when you have done nothing wrong.

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If two people both learn the so-called "fairly tale" history, and then they both discover the so-called "true" history, and the one experiences shaken faith, and the other does not, then what would you ascribe the difference too if it is not testimony?

 

TFP - I know you were addressing this to Stallion but aside from the testimony side of this, some people put too much stock in things that don't matter in the long run which can then lead to shaken faith.

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If two people both learn the so-called "fairly tale" history, and then they both discover the so-called "true" history, and the one experiences shaken faith, and the other does not, then what would you ascribe the difference too if it is not testimony?

Very good question. There's more to play than testimony IMO. Some people have an easier time ignoring things that initially bother them. An older lady on my mission, for example, started reading Rough Stone Rolling but threw it away once it said things she didnt like. On the other hand, I can't allow myself to ignore the discrepancies. IMO, testimony plays a role, but some people cant help but critically analyze the truth - no matter what it may say. It would seem intellectually dishonest to disregard or ignore facts because they didnt fit my perspective.
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If two people both learn the so-called "fairly tale" history, and then they both discover the so-called "true" history, and the one experiences shaken faith, and the other does not, then what would you ascribe the difference too if it is not testimony?

How about different things challenge different people differently? (How's that for confusing?) :) What is a huge challenge to one person is much less of a challenge for someone else.. and visa versa. That being said, I would still give that the label of testimony.. Which is, I believe, the point that TFP is making. But sometimes we use or understand the word testimony as a sort of all-or-nothing word.. The implication being we either have a testimony or we don't, rather than that we could use some added strength to our testimonies in certain areas.

I'd like to pose a question which I believe to be relevant to what we're discussing. Is there a difference between having a testimony and being "converted?" Let me put it another way. Can we have a testimony but not be converted?  Example: The apostle Peter had and expressed his testimony that Jesus is the Christ. Nevertheless, he was later admonished of The Lord, "When thou art converted, strengthen thy brethren."

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LiterateParakeet, on 24 Nov 2014 - 03:18 AM, said:snapback.png

I'm interested LitPara. You're applying personal experience to ALL the world. That strikes me as a stretch. As much as I accept that any of us can fall away if we do not remain diligent in our obedience, study, faith, prayers, and the like, the context of your post seems to imply that it can hit anyone in spite of these things. I would be interested in hearing more about your experience (if your comfortable sharing) and how you have come to this conclusion, assuiming I'm not reading too much into it.

As a broader discussion, I'd like to discuss the causes of shaken faith syndrome and what we can do to avoid or overcome it.

If you are asking about shaken faith in the Church and Gospel...no sure you can avoid ever having your faith shaken. If you are talking about faith in man...unavoidable. :)
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So here's some thoughts I've had related to several of the above posts:

 

1. Faith is not the same as peace. Having peace, no confusion, no emotional, mental, or physical struggles is great. But All of us will face all of these things. I think, based on some things I've read and heard, that there may be some confusion here. Some seem to think that if they hurt, struggle, feel confusion, etc., that their faith must be weak. This is not always the case.

 

2. Some do, however, attach their faith to their emotional, mental, physical, or other trials, and thereby have their faith get shaken when they face such trials.

 

3. Testimony is a different thing than faith and conversion. Testimony is a witness of truth, but it does not mean that one is converted or faithful to that end. We can see examples of this in the three witnesses of the Book of Mormon. All of them had testimonies which they never denied. All three of them faltered to some degree in their faithfulness to the gospel, and showed short-comings in their conversion.

 

4. Testimony may not be a choice. If we have no witness, we have no witness. Faith, on the other hand, is a choice, and may be exercised despite testimony.

 

5. Doubting something is, indeed, second guessing one's testimony in that thing. It is a weakening of that witness. It is a weakening of testimony.

 

6. Understanding that someone is having a faith crisis is not labeling them as apostate. Weakness is specific to any given idea, however, so if they are "weak" in a specific area, then understanding that they are weak a good thing. Pretending they're strong when they're not helps no one. Apostasy, on the other hand, occurs only if false thinking is accepted as valid.

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If you are asking about shaken faith in the Church and Gospel...no sure you can avoid ever having your faith shaken.

 

Like other similar statements, this seems too all encompassing and black-and-white, imo. Should we really believe that because some experience shaken faith that all must?

 

This was the point of the original post in this thread too. I can understand that many do have experiences with faith faltering, and that we are all at risk if we do not remain vigilant. What I'm not so sure about is the idea that it is unavoidable.

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