Saving the World

[estradling75]

Yes, I can see your point. Despite that, I'm happy with a loose definition, though. It seems to me perfectly in order that, as society progresses, so should the idea of a basic necessity.

 

In the short term, however, we can be quite specific about how many calories a person needs to avoid malnourishment and starvation, and the kind of medical interventions required to avoid, say, malaria, bilharzia or polio. We are quite entitled to demand maximum bang for our buck; if we can spend $1000 to provide high energy food for a hundred people for a month, or $1000 to provide a week's worth of cancer chemotherapy for one unfortunate individual, then I think we would be justified to take a utilitarian view of the matter, and promote the greatest happiness of the greatest number.

 

As for who decides? Well, I am persuaded by the idea that those donating should have the definitive say. And, that if we want that say, we should be prepared to make that donation.

 

Best wishes, 2RM.

 

 

So in your mind this is funded by donations...  Totally voluntary... Its not a tax... Its not enforced by some governmental agency (And the inherent threat of force) ?

[2ndRateMind]

Absolutely totally voluntary.

 

You gain no spiritual stature by being forced to do a good thing, only by choosing to do it out of your heart's conviction.

 

Best wishes, 2RM.

[estradling75]

Absolutely totally voluntary.

 

You gain no spiritual stature by being forced to do a good thing, only by choosing to do it out of your heart's conviction.

 

Best wishes, 2RM.

 

 

Excellent...  I like were you are going then...

 

Here are the problems with a voluntary system.  One you don't have enough volunteers.   Its a chronic problem.  And  two how do your volunteers reach beyond their local area without a larger Governmental type organization?  For example how to we reach the truly needy in Africa (or elsewhere)  past all the corrupt officials and leaders that would take for themselves

[2ndRateMind]

Uh huh. There will, I suspect, never be enough volunteers. Some people think that neutering stray tom cats is the best way to reduce the sum of misery in the world (at least for kittens, anyway). Well, we are all entitled to our priorities, and to pursue them as we see fit. The best we can do is keep the dialog open, keep talking, keep persuading, keep recruiting to the cause, even while simultaneously living the cause.

 

As for corruption; well it's an issue, of course. But I think it's less of an issue than an excuse not to engage, a reason to think; 'well, whatever I donate will end up in the hands of corrupt leader, so I might as well keep my money for myself.' My own feeling is that any intelligent philanthropist will be able to find a way through corruption, if he/she is committed enough to do that.

 

Best wishes, 2RM. 

[estradling75]

Uh huh. There will, I suspect, never be enough volunteers. Some people think that neutering stray tom cats is the best way to reduce the sum of misery in the world (at least for kittens, anyway). Well, we are all entitled to our priorities, and to pursue them as we see fit. The best we can do is keep the dialog open, keep talking, keep persuading, keep recruiting to the cause, even while simultaneously living the cause.

 

As for corruption; well it's an issue, of course. But I think it's less of an issue than an excuse not to engage, a reason to think; 'well, whatever I donate will end up in the hands of corrupt leader, so I might as well keep my money for myself.' My own feeling is that any intelligent philanthropist will be able to find a way through corruption, if he/she is committed enough to do that.

 

Best wishes, 2RM. 

 

 

So now you are limiting your volunteers to those 'smart enough.'  That is going to limit your pool even more and smacks of elitism.   Simple math would dictate that the less requirements you have on donors the more you might have.

[2ndRateMind]

Hmmm. Not quite sure where you inferred those ideas from. I'm interested in the whole of Christendom rising to this challenge. We have the means, we have the ways, we have the expertise. We have the example of sacrifice, in Jesus, and His trust in us. I honestly do not know what more we need, than His love, in our hearts.

 

Best wishes, 2RM.

[estradling75]

Hmmm. Not quite sure where you inferred those ideas from. I'm interested in the whole of Christendom rising to this challenge. We have the means, we have the ways, we have the expertise. We have the example of sacrifice, in Jesus, and His trust in us. I honestly do not know what more we need, than His love, in our hearts.

 

Best wishes, 2RM.

 

You see what it could do.... But you are ignoring/unaware of why it has not done so...  You need solid answers to questions you are not even asking before you can make this happen.

 

I know what the LDS aspect of Christendom is doing to try to rise to this challenge.  I assume (and I have seen glimpse of) other aspects of Christendom are also trying.    Instead of trying to reinvent the wheel why don't you try talking to the various aspects of Christendom and find out what they are doing and trying?

[Backroads]

If we are counting on Christian goodness to save the world (which is what Christians ought to do) then we need to be saving souls.

[2ndRateMind]

You see what it could do.... But you are ignoring/unaware of why it has not done so...  You need solid answers to questions you are not even asking before you can make this happen.

 

I know what the LDS aspect of Christendom is doing to try to rise to this challenge.  I assume (and I have seen glimpse of) other aspects of Christendom are also trying.    Instead of trying to reinvent the wheel why don't you try talking to the various aspects of Christendom and find out what they are doing and trying?

 

 

Estradling75, I, too, get the impression that work is being done, and good work, and vital work. The thing I don't get though, is a sense of an overview, of a strategy, of co-ordinated effort to ensure to most effective deployment of scarce resources.

 

I am not, lest you think this, advocating the appointment of some civil servant to the role of 'global central controller of saving the world'. I am more thinking of a conversation between all involved, perhaps in a journal, or on a website, where we can celebrate achievements, analyse failures, and study next priorities, and how best to tackle them.

 

Backroads, by 'saving souls' do you mean converting people to Christianity, or guaranteeing them a place in heaven? Because I am not sure we can do either. Faith, and heaven, are both gifts outside our control. What we can do, however, is demonstrate the difference Christianity makes to a life, and one very good method of doing that is to tackle economic injustice, wholesale.

 

Best wishes, 2RM.

Edited November 30, 2014 by 2ndRateMind

[Backroads]

Converting people to Christianity and letting them help their neighbors.

[estradling75]

Estradling75, I, too, get the impression that work is being done, and good work, and vital work. The thing I don't get though, is a sense of an overview, of a strategy, of co-ordinated effort to ensure to most effective deployment of scarce resources.

 

I am not, lest you think this, advocating the appointment of some civil servant to the role of 'global central controller of saving the world'. I am more thinking of a conversation between all involved, perhaps in a journal, or on a website, where we can celebrate achievements, analyse failures, and study next priorities, and how best to tackle them.

 

 

Because each group runs independently.  Christianity did not reach is current state by all of them playing nice with each other, it reached its current state because (and I greatly simplify) one group thought the other group was doing Christianity 'wrong' so the broke off started to do it 'right'.  Then others would break off of them and so on and so forth.  The you have groups that say they they all get it wrong and basically say God started over (Restoration vs reformers).

 

Those are wounds that don't easily heal, and when you add those that think that the Soul is more important then the body (Which many in Christianity do believe) then getting 'Right' take priority.  Which means the wounds can't heal.

 

So while there are some attempts at interfaith co-operation they really do have some large issues to overcome.  As for a central leader, we do technically have one, Christ.  But as previously stated we don't all agree on what he would have us focus on right now.  To over come this we need to convert each other or Christ needs to come in power and glory and lay down the Law. 

[Traveler]

Hmmm. Not quite sure where you inferred those ideas from. I'm interested in the whole of Christendom rising to this challenge. We have the means, we have the ways, we have the expertise. We have the example of sacrifice, in Jesus, and His trust in us. I honestly do not know what more we need, than His love, in our hearts.

 

Best wishes, 2RM.

 

We do indeed have the means and the way to take care of the poor.  The LDS are the example with our fast offerings and welfare system.  Other organizations such as the Salvation Army also do a fair job.  The greatest failures are the government efforts.  In the USA we collect 6 times the funds needed specifically for the poor and the government so badly waists and corrupts the well meaning taxes that poverty as as bad or worse than before we started our welfare entitlements.