Let's talk about White Privilege

[Guest LiterateParakeet]

In another thread I mentioned to Backroads that I thought her and PC misunderstood what White Privilege is and I would start a new thread to explain...so here it is.

 

First, I don't think that "White Privilege" is something that make you feel attacked.  You didn't ask for it, you didn't cause it--it just is.  More about that in a moment.

 

To help put it in perspective, imagine there was something called "Tall Privilege". 

-Because you are tall, you get picked first in basketball, even if you have 10 thumbs

-Because you are tall you can almost always reach things on high shelves

 

And so on...you didn't choose to be tall, you just are and because you are you can do things that short people can't.  White privilege works the same way.  You didn't chose it or create it, you can't turn it off, it just is.  So you don't need to feel shamed by it.  Or attacked when it is presented to you (depending on the presentation).

 

So what is White Privilege?  It can show up in many different ways.  For example, when you give your teenage "The Talk" it's about sex.  When Black parents give their kids "The Talk" it's about how to respond to police officers.

 

If you haven't heard about that talk, here's a great video to explain:

http://www.upworthy.com/a-mother-and-son-have-a-kitchen-conversation-no-parent-should-have-to-have-with-their-child?g=2

 

Here's a link with a nice list of things white people can do that people of color often struggle with:

http://amptoons.com/blog/files/mcintosh.html

 

Before I started learning more about White Privilege, I was sure I didn't have it because I was poor.  I thought it was a rich people thing. :)  But I've never been as poor as the author of this article:

 

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/gina-crosleycorcoran/explaining-white-privilege-to-a-broke-white-person_b_5269255.html

 

Obviously there is a big difference between my lame example of tall privilege and white privilege.  White privilege shouldn't exist. I have white privilege.  I don't like it, but I can't just shrug it off.  What I can do is accept that it is real, and work for equality for everyone.

 

Some white people on Twitter are doing something to bring awareness to the issue. Check it out.

 

#crimingwhilewhite

 

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2014/12/03/criming-while-white-hashtag_n_6265480.html?ncid=fcbklnkushpmg00000047

 

So Backroads and PC, I hope this helpful, and helps you not feel attacked when you hear the term "white privilege".  I know some here will strongly disagree with me.  That's okay, you have that privilege (heh heh, I couldn't resist the bad pun.)

Edited December 4, 2014 by LiterateParakeet

[Crypto]

The idea behind "White Privilege" is simply an inversion of discrimination, subtly diverting attention from the woes of racism, to the partially alleged benefits, partially privileged benefits of another skin color.

The problem is still racism, whether you look through the looking glass of "privilege" or "disadvantage".

[jerome1232]

I really hate that for some reason, there is no inversion of discrimination. Discrimination isn't strictly a negative term. It simply means you are treating things differently, whether you discriminating for or against something doesn't make it reverse, inverse or any other verse of discrimination, it's just discrimination.

Why do I wear green shirts more often? Because I discriminate for them. It simply means I'm noting the difference between things and making a judgment call.

/end off topic rant about misuse of a word.

[Backroads]

This is helpful, though it seems like continually bringing up white privilege only makes matters worse. We complain about the nastiness of white privilege attacks because we have only seen it as an attack. It's dividing and helps no one.

Edited December 4, 2014 by Backroads

[Guest]

This is helpful, though it seems like continually bringing up white privilege only makes matters worse. We complain about the nastiness of white privilege attacks because we have only seen it as an attack. It's dividing and helps no one.

 

Amen.

[Just_A_Guy]

If I understand you, LP, "check your privilege" is in theory merely a synonym for "give thanks".

 

All well and good--if true--but then, why not simply say "give thanks"?

 

In reality, "check your privilege"--at least, as I've seen it used in modern discourse--seems to be the functional equivalent of "don't judge", which is the functional equivalent of "it's not my fault (and it just might be yours)", which is the functional equivalent of "I shouldn't have to change my obnoxious and destructive behavior (and furthermore, the costs of such behavior should be shunted off onto you)".

 

Gratitude, when used to extract a pecuniary or political benefit, is more accurately termed guilt.

Edited December 4, 2014 by Just_A_Guy

[Guest]

In another thread I mentioned to Backroads that I thought her and PC misunderstood what White Privilege is and I would start a new thread to explain...so here it is.

 

First, I don't think that "White Privilege" is something that make you feel attacked.  You didn't ask for it, you didn't cause it--it just is.  More about that in a moment.

 

To help put it in perspective, imagine there was something called "Tall Privilege". 

-Because you are tall, you get picked first in basketball, even if you have 10 thumbs

-Because you are tall you can almost always reach things on high shelves

 

And so on...you didn't choose to be tall, you just are and because you are you can do things that short people can't.  White privilege works the same way.  You didn't chose it or create it, you can't turn it off, it just is.  So you don't need to feel shamed by it.  Or attacked when it is presented to you (depending on the presentation).

 

So what is White Privilege?  It can show up in many different ways.  For example, when you give your teenage "The Talk" it's about sex.  When Black parents give their kids "The Talk" it's about how to respond to police officers.

 

If you haven't heard about that talk, here's a great video to explain:

http://www.upworthy.com/a-mother-and-son-have-a-kitchen-conversation-no-parent-should-have-to-have-with-their-child?g=2

 

Here's a link with a nice list of things white people can do that people of color often struggle with:

http://amptoons.com/blog/files/mcintosh.html

 

Before I started learning more about White Privilege, I was sure I didn't have it because I was poor.  I thought it was a rich people thing. :)  But I've never been as poor as the author of this article:

 

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/gina-crosleycorcoran/explaining-white-privilege-to-a-broke-white-person_b_5269255.html

 

Obviously there is a big difference between my lame example of tall privilege and white privilege.  White privilege shouldn't exist. I have white privilege.  I don't like it, but I can't just shrug it off.  What I can do is accept that it is real, and work for equality for everyone.

 

Some white people on Twitter are doing something to bring awareness to the issue. Check it out.

 

#crimingwhilewhite

 

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2014/12/03/criming-while-white-hashtag_n_6265480.html?ncid=fcbklnkushpmg00000047

 

So Backroads and PC, I hope this helpful, and helps you not feel attacked when you hear the term "white privilege".  I know some here will strongly disagree with me.  That's okay, you have that privilege (heh heh, I couldn't resist the bad pun.)

 

 

I didn't read the bottom links.  I banned Huffington Post from my reading list.

 

But Tall Privilege is not at all comparable to White Privilege.  No amount of anything was done to cause your hand to be closer or farther from the basketball ring besides the fact that you were born to a certain genetic line.  Hitler tried to "level the genes" by getting rid of non-ideal people but that failed tremendously.

 

The amptoon article is silly.  It's the epitome of crab mentality... a slew of crabs in the barrel would climb over the backs of the ones on top to get up, thereby pushing them down.  Reducing white (or male) privilege to give the blacks (or females) more privilege is idiotic.

 

Sure, "flesh" color is light.  And Filpinos buy whitening creams.  But then white people go to tanning salons.  It doesn't matter because that's all superficial and people always want what they don't have - including hair color, skin tone, and eye color.  That's why L'Oriel sells a ton of hair dyes and Optics sells a ton of colored lenses and tanning salons are all over the place.  About all the others - you don't fight bad perception by climbing over the backs of white people.  You fight bad perception by flooding society with the greatness of black people to rival whites.

 

And I'll take this moment to rant on females versus males... females have been given an edge in the educational system... which, either knowingly or unknowingly, pulled females up but pushed males down to disadvantage... all the learning methods adopted by the American Public School Systems are not conducive to the learning style of boys.  Quiet schools with desks and boards and lots of paying attention and not much doing... that's not how boys generally learn... that's how girls learn...

 

And back to white privilege... even within the black community there is prestige attached to the lighter skin versus the really dark skin... and no whites did that... blacks did that.  But that's a fact of life because even dwarves attach prestige to the proportionally dwarfed versus the disproportional dwarves... this kind of discrimination exists everywhere.  Filipinos have it too - look at Filipino commercials... "One tablespoon of Star Margarine makes you taller!".  Hah hah.

 

This psychological phenomenon is part of the mortal body's survival mechanism.  Always trying to position one's self for self-aggrandizement is a survival tactic.  Yes, the spirit should overcome the natural man... but we're not all Saints yet.

Edited December 4, 2014 by anatess

[Windseeker]

On a positive note, the only way we get to the point that we destroy ourselves and the Savior returns is if we have more "victims". 

 

You see it was a "victim" (Cain) who brought murder to the world, it was "victims" who murdered 6 million men, women and children in what we know as the Holocaust, it was "victims" who bombed Pearl Harbor and raped Nanking, it was "victims" who created what is known as the killing fields where an estimated 3 million people were murdered, it mostly has been "victims" who have have forced the extinction of entire species and who needlessly kill dolphins today in Taiji.

 

Satan wants you to think of yourself as a victim. Some examples of successful groups who clearly thwarted Satan's plans are the early Latter Day Saints, Jews post WWII, immigrants who fled SouthEast Asia, South Korea and Cubans immigrants fleeing communism. 

 

Blacks were once actual victims. Today many are "victims" and I think it would be in Satan's interest to keep them there. 

 

I myself have had good and bad (atrocious actually and I felt completely powerless and helpless) experiences with Police. The wonderful thing is I never had my parents give me this enlightening "Talk". So for me I look at it like this cop is a Jerk. If I'd been raised with my parents, media, the most powerful man in our nation telling me that the world is out to get me because of the color of my skin, I wouldn't walk away thinking that this officer is simply a big jerk, but that he's targeting me because of my race and it would confirm and compound my feelings of "victim-hood". 

 

The idea of "White Priviledge" dehumanizes white people, discounts their own personal struggles and Goliaths they've had to overcome and ignores completely the content of ones character. 

 

Some of the examples are more true then others but many are just outright false and some caused me to lol.

 

Like this one...  

 

35. I can take a job with an affirmative action employer without having my co-workers on the job suspect that I got it because of my race.

 

How about the privilege of being able to apply for a job and know that you and the other candidates are being considered on your merits and not have to fear you will not get it because your white.

 

One privilege white people certainly do not enjoy is the assumption that they are where they are because of "White Privilege".

 

Will condemning people based on the color of their skin lead us to a colorblind (as far as judgement, MLK never meant colorblind as in we don't enjoy diversity as was mentioned in another thread) society?

 

It's an odd way of getting there don't you think? 

 

The Gospel of Jesus Christ is all about looking outward. Your solutions will never work as they all focus on making people look inward and embrace "victim-hood" as a solution. Only when we embrace forgiveness, exercise long-suffering, and love our fellowmen like ourselves will we see an improvement and perhaps a delay in him wiping out the evil on this earth. 

Edited December 4, 2014 by Windseeker

[estradling75]

I skimmed through the articles.

 

I saw the bullet point on what "white privilege" is.  I have no problem with the idea that everyone should have the same privileges as a white person does (assuming which we usually do that it is the top)  In fact I think that was the whole point of Martin Luther's I have a dream speech.  I have no problem with the idea of trying and working toward lifting everyone to that level.

 

But I have to agree with JAG that is not how the accusation of "white privilege", or "male privilege" or even "white male privilege" is commonly used.  In my experience it is used to try to get me to shut up, sit down, and take whatever 'they' think is fair from me.  And that is just not going to happen.

 

Pull others up...  sure... try to pull me down.  No way.

[FunkyTown]

I'm not sure what the point of the articles are. "White privilege exists".

 

More specifically, "Rich people privilege exists". Rich neighborhoods tend to have less crime. They tend to have better schools(Because they can afford them). They tend to have better shopping, less homelessness and fewer run-ins with cops. Regardless of color, that is a thing.

 

Does it matter? Let's say that it exists.

 

What now? Great. You've identified that I have a privilege. Usually, someone will say something because they have a point to make. In this case, is 'White Privilege' being used:

 

A) As a bludgeon to excuse bad behaviour.

B) Some other thing?

 

Ultimately, what's the point of bringing it up? Are people looking for excuses or pointing fingers?

[PolarVortex]

I am glad LP started this topic, because it's stirring up and ventilating a lot of things that ought to be stirred up and ventilated.

 

If I am in a group of people on the deck of a ship looking out at other people who are in the water and struggling to get aboard, I am going to throw them lifesavers or ropes and do everything I can to haul them up out of the water and onto my deck.  I am not going to criticize myself for my good fortune of being on the deck and then throw myself into the water out of a sense of sharing the burden fairly.  I will harshly criticize other people on the deck who pretend that nobody is in the water.

 

And I have to say this about the Huffington Post.  Several years ago my boss got into a titanic legal battle with his kids' school.  His kids had a medical condition that required them to stay away from other children with a certain genetic marker.  Another family with a child who had the marker moved into the school district, and a big fight erupted over which family should move its children to another school.  My boss unloaded his grief on me every day.  I knew the details of this story quite well, and I knew that both sides had legitimate arguments.  One day the story appeared in the Huffington Post.  It was highly biased and painted the whole thing as a crime on common sense and a vicious attack against the other family, whose child was described as being bullied for no good reason.  Many plain and precious things about this case were totally omitted, and my boss's side was never explained.  In truth, it was a fantastically complex dispute with layers and layers of medical and legal issues.  I was shaken very badly after reading that article, and I trust very little of what I read these days.  

[Traveler]

It is interesting that the initial example is tall verses short - Since I am short (including shorter than my eternal partner and wife) I have a lot of experience with being short.  While serving in the military I was the shortest and smallest (weight) in my basic training company.  I believe that it was not by chance but I was parried with the companies tallest individual for hand to hand combat training and exercise.

 

One thing certain - if for any reason one is an exception to a norm - they will be noticed.  I honestly believe that there is a distinct and obvious advantage in being noticed as an exception if and only if one is determined to use such distinction to their advantage.  If one is looking for an excuse for failure drawing attention to any already noticeable distinction will only make the failure itself more noticeable.

 

If someone or group of someones have the reputation of being unreasonably hot headed, overly violent and disrespectful of others property - it does not help their cause to be seen as otherwise if they exploit opportunities to be hot headed, overly violent and disrespectful of others property.   What has the unfolding of events in Ferguson demonstrated?  That it is unreasonable to think that there is a hot headed, overly violent and disrespectful of others property element deeply rooted in that subculture there - that if given excuse will destroy even the businesses and livelihood of their own distinctive class?

 

I have friends that are Asian, Hispanic, African American, Ozzy, European, Native American and white.  But I do not count anyone as a trusted friend that has the kind of temper that when angered will destroy property and put lives and livelihoods at risks. 

 

If there is a racial problem in the USA it is foremost among those that use race as an excuse to threaten lives, destroy property and generate fear.   The second worse problem of racism is with those that support such excuse as a valid racial response.

[prisonchaplain]

I'll admit that white privilege exists.  So does tall privilege (I'm 6' 4").  My status as an American and a Protestant Christian helped me getting a teaching job in Korea.  So...do I take some things for granted?  Yes.  Might I be ignorant of some hurdles that African-Americans (and short people, and religious minorities) face?  Of course.

 

What I loathe is that phrase, "Check your privilege."  It's all the rage in college classroom discourses these days.  Professors sometimes invoke it.  The meaning?  "Be quiet.  You don't understand because of your privilege, so you get to just listen now."

 

We all have our perspectives, our privileges, and our blindspots.  Yes...we should listen more.  However, to tell someone to be quiet  because of their background is "rude much."

[The Folk Prophet]

I'm not sure it's valid to call it a "privilege" to not get beat down for your skin color.

 

"Consider yourself privileged that I didn't just shoot you in the face!"

 

Hardly. Privilege should be above and beyond what ought to, by right, be "the norm". The norm should not be getting beat up for skin color. Nor should the norm be special treatment.

 

If I'm walking down the street minding my own business and doing nothing wrong, it is not a privilege to not be hassled by the cops. If, on the other hand, I'm walking down the street openly breaking the law somehow and the cops don't hassle me, then sure, that's privileged.

 

As others have said. It's reverse discrimination to refer to it as "privilege" unless it's actually above and beyond what ought to be the norm. I'm not saying white privilege doesn't exist -- but let's call privilege privilege, and not common human rights privilege.

[Guest]

I'm not sure what the point of the articles are. "White privilege exists".

 

More specifically, "Rich people privilege exists". Rich neighborhoods tend to have less crime. They tend to have better schools(Because they can afford them)....

 

I agree with everything except this one in bold...

 

Coming from a 3rd World Country with students consistently winning Academic contests against Westerners and Europeans... I can say "Because they can afford them" is a fallacy.  What makes schools fail is the attitude of students, parents, and educators... not their wealth or lack thereof.  Think Rocky 4... no amount of money could make Drago win against Balboa...

[Guest MormonGator]

LP-

 

I'm glad you posted this. It should make all of us think a second time. 

 

That said, in regards to "tall privilege" I have no right to sue the NBA because I didn't become a player. I'm terrible at sports. It's no ones fault, it's just life. 

 

I can't change me being white anymore than a black man can change being black. Prejudice against both of us is deeply wrong. 

 

Of course racism exists in the world, we live in a fallen one. Blacks can racist, whites can too. It's always wrong. The bigger question is: What do we do about it? Can it be cured? 

 

 

 

Sometimes the cure that society has for the problem of racism is worse than actual racism 

Edited December 4, 2014 by MormonGator

[Guest]

LP-

 

I'm glad you posted this. It should make all of us think a second time. 

 

That said, in regards to "tall privilege" I have no right to sue the NBA because I didn't become a player.

 

There's a wanna-be-a-stewardess who sued the Airline for Height Discrimination... the airline had the requirement because the steward has to be able to reach the luggage compartment but the stewardess-wannabe believes the airline should provide a step-stool kind of thing to reach it.  I don't know what happened to that lawsuit.  I just thought that was interesting.

Edited December 4, 2014 by anatess

[Guest MormonGator]

There's a wanna-be-a-stewardess who sued the Airline for Height Discrimination... the airline had the requirement because the steward has to be able to reach the luggage compartment but the stewardess-wannabe believes the airline should provide a step-stool kind of thing to reach it.  I don't know what happened to that lawsuit.  I just thought that was interesting.

I think I'm going to sue Metallica. They didn't hire me as the lead guitarist last time I tried out. 

[Guest]

I think I'm going to sue Metallica. They didn't hire me as the lead guitarist last time I tried out. 

 

That's because they don't hire alligators.  It's species discrimination...

[Backroads]

As LP pointed out, yes, we do get certain perks based on a myriad of things beyond our intentions. can't argue there. I agree that we should consider the life experiences of ourselves and others. That is what I'm getting from your post, LP. Is that the right ballpark?

But the high focus on "check your privilege" and low focus on solutions is odd. It's like Breast Cancer Awareness, which is sometimes criticized for too much fluff and not enough solutions.

Many of us feel the privilege cry is drowning out the effort for solutions. We should strive for social fairness, but all communities need to give effort.

The "you have such privilege and I don't what are you going to do about it?" attitude we sometimes see is not helpful.

[Guest MormonGator]

That's because they don't hire alligators.  It's species discrimination...

 

lol! Love it. 

 

For the record, No, I've never tried out for Metallica. Not saying I wouldn't have loved too, but the talent just isn't there.

Edited December 4, 2014 by MormonGator

[Vort]

I think I'm going to sue Metallica. They didn't hire me as the lead guitarist last time I tried out. 

 

Sad but true. You have several problems. One: You need to go by "MormonGuitar", not "MormonGator". Also, don't be all holier than thou. It's sad but true that the memory remains if you're the unforgiven. I'll keep you in mind wherever I may roam, my friend of misery. Mama said not to give up the struggle within or believe that to live is to die; just turn the page

[Guest]

Sad but true. You have several problems. One: You need to go by "MormonGuitar", not "MormonGator". Also, don't be all holier than thou. It's sad but true that the memory remains if you're the unforgiven. I'll keep you in mind wherever I may roam, my friend of misery. Mama said not to give up the struggle within or believe that to live is to die; just turn the page

 

I thought Mama said to come home... or was it that MormonGat, er Guitar, should tell mama he's coming home...

[Guest MormonGator]

Sad but true. You have several problems. One: You need to go by "MormonGuitar", not "MormonGator". Also, don't be all holier than thou. It's sad but true that the memory remains if you're the unforgiven. I'll keep you in mind wherever I may roam, my friend of misery. Mama said not to give up the struggle within or believe that to live is to die; just turn the page

This is the greatest response in the history of the internet. My undying respect to you sir! 

[Vort]

I thought Mama said to come home... or was it that MormonGat, er Guitar, should tell mama he's coming home...

 

Let me clarify.

 

Sad but true. You have several problems. One: You need to go by "MormonGuitar", not "MormonGator". Also, don't be all holier than thou. It's sad but true that the memory remains if you're the unforgiven. I'll keep you in mind wherever I may roam, my friend of misery. Mama said not to give up the struggle within or believe that to live is to die; just turn the page

 

It's headbanger code.