The Ten Commandments


rfburn
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Wasn't sure this would belong in the LDS Gospel Discussion since it is not LDS specific.
I am assuming, but not sure, that, that particular form is for LDS specific topics.

So, I've placed it here.

There are two public thinkers who I absolutely adore, and who I have learned much from over many years.

That is not to say I always find myself in agreement.

One is Christan apologist Ravi Zacharias.
The other, and who's content I link to today, is Dennis Prager.

Dennis has a series out on his Prager University site (and via Youtube) on the Ten Commandments.

Just thought I'd share, as I have enjoyed them (especially video #1 and video #5).
And ask from those who might view them of their thoughts.

I'll link to video 1 and 3, and the course site itself.

Video #1 Introduction.
Video # 2 Honor Your Mother and father.

The whole of the video course/series.

It may ask you to sign up if you use the last link.
But it is optional, and you can just close that window and move along without singing up.

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not related to the video links in the OP, but related to the '10 Commandments' more generally -- 

in light of this scripture: 

Being confident of this very thing, that he which hath begun a good work in you will perform it until the day of Jesus Christ
(Philippians 1:6) 

and in light of the regeneration and renewal i have seen in my own life, since i first committed my ways to Him, putting y hope and trust in the salvation of Jesus Christ, not my self, 

 

does anyone else look at this list of "thou shalt" i.e. "you will " statements as promises rather than imperatives? 

example: the law says "
you will not lie
and by the Spirit working in me, i see lies destroyed and lying removed from me, replaced by truth. 
what i was unable to do by the power of my own obedience, God has done by the regeneration of the Holy Ghost -- now what was a commandment i could not keep it is a promise being fulfilled in me! 

is it like this with you too? i thank and praise the Almighty for the new life in me!!

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Thank you, I watched 2 of them and will get to more tomorrow! They are great!

You might like to read "The 5,000 Year Leap" by W. Cleon Skousen. It talks about all this stuff two, how the founding fathers used the 10 commandments as their basis.

Saul, I'm glad you enjoyed them.

I found them very good.

I have read The 5,000 Year Leap.

I actually have the related course on DVD, and use it in our homeschooling of our children.

Edited by rfburn
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not related to the video links in the OP, but related to the '10 Commandments' more generally -- 

in light of this scripture: 

Being confident of this very thing, that he which hath begun a good work in you will perform it until the day of Jesus Christ

(Philippians 1:6) 

and in light of the regeneration and renewal i have seen in my own life, since i first committed my ways to Him, putting y hope and trust in the salvation of Jesus Christ, not my self, 

 

does anyone else look at this list of "thou shalt" i.e. "you will " statements as promises rather than imperatives? 

example: the law says "you will not lie

and by the Spirit working in me, i see lies destroyed and lying removed from me, replaced by truth. 

what i was unable to do by the power of my own obedience, God has done by the regeneration of the Holy Ghost -- now what was a commandment i could not keep it is a promise being fulfilled in me! 

is it like this with you too? i thank and praise the Almighty for the new life in me!!

I like this view.

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does anyone else look at this list of "thou shalt" i.e. "you will " statements as promises rather than imperatives?

 

I appreciate your thoughtful pondering on the matter and the insights you have found.

 

To answer your specific question, I don't see it that way. My understanding of Jacobean English is that "thou wilt" is the normal indicative form, and that "thou shalt" is the imperative form. While I do not know Hebrew, translations in other European languages seem all to follow this imperative reading.

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Interesting topic, so I checked.  I've never tried to read the Ten Commandments in other languages.  Russian uses the plain imperative everywhere.  French uses a mixture of the imperative ("Souviens-toi du jour du sabbat") and the future ("Tu ne tueras point"), but I'm guessing that has imperative overtones.  Luther's translation into German uses a mixture of the imperative and the verbs sollen and nicht dürfen, which are usually translated into English as "should" and "must not."  Thanks to Wikipedia, it was easy to find the Ten Commandments in Esperanto, and that awful language uses the imperative everywhere, often in words that made me laugh out loud (e.g., "Ne malbonuzu la nomon de la Eternulo").

 

My Hebrew is far too rusty to check the original, sadly, but from what I see so far these are all taken as imperatives.  Hard to spin these as promises, IMHO.

 

But intra's question is fascinating and reminds me of Matthew 18:18 ("Whatsoever ye shall bind on earth shall be bound in heaven: and whatsoever ye shall loose on earth shall be loosed in heaven").  Regardless of one's interpretation of this verse, many scholars seem to take this as simple cause and effect, with the cause on earth and the effect in heaven.  But I have read some scholars who interpret this in reverse: that the decision to bind or loose is made first in heaven, and that the earthly church's actions are only echoes of those heavenly decisions. 

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as i understand it, the Hebrew future and imperative tenses both have the same grammatical form. context distinguishes the two -- this is just from poking around; i've never been taught to understand Hebrew. yet. as more years go by, i want more and more to read the scriptures in their original languages - isn't it best that way? 
 

the obvious context for a translator is the giving of the law: imperative, 
but the context for us now is not the same as the context for the Hebrews - we see it through the lens of the cross. 

isn't it so that God's word does not go out from Him and return without accomplishing it's purpose? :) 
♥ future ♥

 

Edited by intra
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