Loving God


John Prather
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So the scriptures say that if you love God then keep his commandments. What if you don't love God? Sure, I'm that guy. I have issues about love and whatnot. I feel nothing towards God except maybe negative emotions. I try to keep the commandments but I am not motivated by love. Mostly compliance out of fear.

I don't know if this is true for you but I have found that most people I know that proclaim a hatred towards God do it because they can't comprehend how a "loving God" would allow for so much evil in the world.  To those people, they don't understand how evil came about.   God created paradise, the Garden of Eden, Adam and Eve.  Adam and Eve then fell from that state into our current conditions.  The Fall is what "created" the condition we now have as well as its associated agency.  This life, despite all of its exposure to evil is for our benefit, to grow, be refined and develop a dependent relationship with out Savior to learn some very important skills, love being one of them.

 

One time I heard this description, not sure if it is true, that shepherds back in Jesus' time would break a leg of a lamb so that it had to be held in the arms of the shepherd until it healed.  In that way it gained a close relationship to the shepherd and learned his voice and developed a dependency on him.  This was done for the lambs safety later when it needed to respond to the masters voice quickly.   Without that time it developed no affinity for the shepherd and would not follow him.

 

These challenges and trials we face in this life are both for a test and for our development. We move forward by having gone through these challenges even if we dont overcome them because we learn a spiritual dependency on the Lord.

 

When one can appreciate the total plan, as opposed to just seeing this small step of this world, then one can see the love that God has for us.  The gospel truly is the good news when faced with such evil in the world.

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Yeah, I don't get this OP...

 

It's more logical to not believe in the God spoken of by the scriptures than it is to be following the commandments while hating that God... because then, there's no point in following the commandments...

 

I guess I don't understand the OP.

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if you're asking whether you are under any obligation to obey God while you hate Him, um, two ways you could go here: 
 

  1. why bother? have a nice eternal condemnation. 
  2. bother because He exists, and is God, no matter what your mortal opinion of Him. anyone is a fool not to fear Him. perhaps if you obey Him He will have mercy on you. 'the fear of the Lord is the beginning of wisdom' 
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if you're asking whether you are under any obligation to obey God while you hate Him, um, two ways you could go here: 

 

  1. why bother? have a nice eternal condemnation. 
  2. bother because He exists, and is God, no matter what your mortal opinion of Him. anyone is a fool not to fear Him. perhaps if you obey Him He will have mercy on you. 'the fear of the Lord is the beginning of wisdom' 

 

LDS believe that everyone here already made a promise to obey his commandments before coming here.  We believe there was a premortal state in which we were given the option of following this plan or not.  All those that did not want to follow the plan are not here now.  So, you and everyone here agreed to obey his commandments.  It is not a matter of fear, it is a matter of integrity.  Are you the same person you said you would be despite you not retaining memory of it.   It is a test of character.  If one does not "love God" and obey God then one is revealing the nature of their character, they are showing to what degree they would do what they are told.

 

It is kind of like when a soldier in boot camp says 'yes' to the ideal of not leaving any fellow soldier behind.  Whereas, in the heat of the battle and the senses are dulled by fear and self preservation, only a few will actually put their lives in danger to go back for their fallen fellow soldiers.   This life is that kind of test.  We believe that your spirit and everyone else spirit here already believes in God and His plan and promised to follow it no matter what, to the best of their ability.  So, now God is seeing how far we take that promise we have already made, it is a test of self integrity.   God already knows we love him, otherwise we wouldn't be here, it is just a matter of to what degree do we love him.

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I think starting where you are is always a good thing. You obey out of fear, but you do obey. What if you prayed for love of God and to better understand him? Do you read about Him (in the scriptures)? Are you inviting him to work in your life? 

 

Eventually, as we continue to obey and grow closer to Him. Hopefully our reasons become better and better. . . from fear to desire for blessing to altruism and eventually just out of love. 

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I regret my ambiguity on my initial post. I think the root of the problem is my inability to reconcile the intellectual knowledge with the visceral emotion.  I don't feel loved by God let alone by others. I don't know this emotion though I can observe it. Because of this I have resented God all my life. My mental image of God is that of the Norse god Odin; powerful yet aloof.  I feel nothing towards God, He is just there.  I have to refrain from sarcasm when others ask if I have prayed about this or imply that up to this point I have not made a concerted effort in obtaining what I seek.  Yes I have. It has been a lifelong pursuit. I guess that I bring up this topic hoping someone has this same situation in their life as has succeeded in obtaining Godly love and acceptance when they started not having this experience and I could learn from them.  Or maybe it is a quixotic quest on my part. Surely I can't be the only one with this experience?

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I regret my ambiguity on my initial post. I think the root of the problem is my inability to reconcile the intellectual knowledge with the visceral emotion.  I don't feel loved by God let alone by others. I don't know this emotion though I can observe it. Because of this I have resented God all my life. My mental image of God is that of the Norse god Odin; powerful yet aloof.  I feel nothing towards God, He is just there.  I have to refrain from sarcasm when others ask if I have prayed about this or imply that up to this point I have not made a concerted effort in obtaining what I seek.  Yes I have. It has been a lifelong pursuit.

I guess that I bring up this topic hoping someone has this same situation in their life as has succeeded in obtaining Godly love and acceptance when they started not having this experience and I could learn from them.  Or maybe it is a quixotic quest on my part. Surely I can't be the only one with this experience?

That's a rough go. I've always felt God's love. Sometimes, I've felt pretty far from Him, or like I couldn't live up to my side, but I've always known He exists and loves me.

But:

I suffered from anxiety. For a very long time. It manifested itself in a mind-numbing fear of eternity - This niggling little feeling of 'What if I'm wrong?'At first, I used drugs to overcome it. Those drugs were amazing and helpful in letting me get past this feeling of tightness in my chest, a mild annoyance of everything that was even slightly off-putting and a feeling of emotional flatness.

Eventually, the anxiety drained away for the most part. What was left is someone I feel much better about.

It sounds like your issue is something on your part - The inability to feel the love of other people. There are numerous reasons that could be, but I won't speculate on that.

Rather than thinking, "How do I feel that God loves me?" have you considered, "How can I help to fix whatever is helping me from feeling the love of other people?"

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I regret my ambiguity on my initial post. I think the root of the problem is my inability to reconcile the intellectual knowledge with the visceral emotion.  I don't feel loved by God let alone by others. I don't know this emotion though I can observe it. Because of this I have resented God all my life. My mental image of God is that of the Norse god Odin; powerful yet aloof.  I feel nothing towards God, He is just there.  I have to refrain from sarcasm when others ask if I have prayed about this or imply that up to this point I have not made a concerted effort in obtaining what I seek.  Yes I have. It has been a lifelong pursuit. I guess that I bring up this topic hoping someone has this same situation in their life as has succeeded in obtaining Godly love and acceptance when they started not having this experience and I could learn from them.  Or maybe it is a quixotic quest on my part. Surely I can't be the only one with this experience?

 

Work on your crown chakra (google it) and look into talking to someone that does EmotionCode (google it; created by an LDS chiropractor).  Although these things may seem different, not feeling loved is no way to live.

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You might appreciate reading the book "The God Who Weeps" by Terryl Givens and Fiona Givens.

It is not too long, but is a deep book, The type you take time to read and appreciate. It is about "God has a heart that beats in sympathy with human hearts, feeling our joy and sorrowing over our pain"

I haven't quite finished it yet, but I can already recommend and tell it is a wonderful book.

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I regret my ambiguity on my initial post. I think the root of the problem is my inability to reconcile the intellectual knowledge with the visceral emotion.  I don't feel loved by God let alone by others. I don't know this emotion though I can observe it. Because of this I have resented God all my life. My mental image of God is that of the Norse god Odin; powerful yet aloof.  I feel nothing towards God, He is just there.  I have to refrain from sarcasm when others ask if I have prayed about this or imply that up to this point I have not made a concerted effort in obtaining what I seek.  Yes I have. It has been a lifelong pursuit. I guess that I bring up this topic hoping someone has this same situation in their life as has succeeded in obtaining Godly love and acceptance when they started not having this experience and I could learn from them.  Or maybe it is a quixotic quest on my part. Surely I can't be the only one with this experience?

why do you obey with fear?

do you understand what He has done for you?

This is love: not that we loved God, but that he loved us and sent his Son as an atoning sacrifice for our sins.

(1 John 4:10) 

He didn't command you to obey. He said if you love Him, you will, and then He demonstrated how great His love was for you. He gives you His grace freely, while you are His enemy, and finds you when you do not seek Him. 

what is not to love?? 

 

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Eventually, the anxiety drained away for the most part. What was left is someone I feel much better about

Humble yourselves, therefore, under God’s mighty hand, that he may lift you up in due time. 

Cast all your anxiety on him because he cares for you.

(1 Peter 5:6-7) 

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I regret my ambiguity on my initial post. I think the root of the problem is my inability to reconcile the intellectual knowledge with the visceral emotion.  I don't feel loved by God let alone by others. I don't know this emotion though I can observe it. Because of this I have resented God all my life. My mental image of God is that of the Norse god Odin; powerful yet aloof.  I feel nothing towards God, He is just there.  I have to refrain from sarcasm when others ask if I have prayed about this or imply that up to this point I have not made a concerted effort in obtaining what I seek.  Yes I have. It has been a lifelong pursuit. I guess that I bring up this topic hoping someone has this same situation in their life as has succeeded in obtaining Godly love and acceptance when they started not having this experience and I could learn from them.  Or maybe it is a quixotic quest on my part. Surely I can't be the only one with this experience?

 

 

I think we need to dial back a bit because I don't understand this feeling (I've never felt like this, so I can't really relate).  I think what we should do is to define Love.  What do you think it means?  Intellectually?  What do you expect to see/experience that can make you point to it and say... there!  That's the love I've been looking for!

 

I learned Love from my parents and grandparents... I've always had it since I was born.  I can't really imagine never knowing it, so I got this acidic feeling in my gut when I read your post quoted above that is this feeling of empathy for you.

Edited by anatess
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I don't know what it is that I expect. That is a good question. I do remember when I watched "How the Grinch Stole Christmas" (animated) as a child and his heart grew bigger, I thought somehow that must be how it felt. One therapist did say that I had not experienced unconditional love. I did have two maternal grandparents but the male was always yelling at me for some offence and the female I think never noticed me to any great extent. They all died around my 9th birthday. My dad's dad died before I was born and his mother so aloof. This is all interesting to me as I write this down and reflect upon my memories. My brothers are all raging alcoholics and drug users. One of them is dead from the effect alcohol. I know people have described love  as a warm feeling so there must be something internal that is experienced.  I have now thought of the metaphor of one born without arms and others talking hitting their 'funny bone'. Maybe it is one of those life situation where all another can do is shrug their shoulders and say it sucks to be you.

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I don't know what it is that I expect. That is a good question. I do remember when I watched "How the Grinch Stole Christmas" (animated) as a child and his heart grew bigger, I thought somehow that must be how it felt. One therapist did say that I had not experienced unconditional love. I did have two maternal grandparents but the male was always yelling at me for some offence and the female I think never noticed me to any great extent. They all died around my 9th birthday. My dad's dad died before I was born and his mother so aloof. This is all interesting to me as I write this down and reflect upon my memories. My brothers are all raging alcoholics and drug users. One of them is dead from the effect alcohol. I know people have described love  as a warm feeling so there must be something internal that is experienced.  I have now thought of the metaphor of one born without arms and others talking hitting their 'funny bone'. Maybe it is one of those life situation where all another can do is shrug their shoulders and say it sucks to be you.

 

Oh John!  I feel for you!

 

Love is not really some warm-and-fuzzy thing or pitty-patter-heart thing or knees-turned-to-jelly thing or goose-bumps-down-my-arms thing... athough, those may be felt resulting from Love.  Love is more of a conscious decision.

 

I'll give you an example from my experience.  My grandmother became widowed in WWII when her husband who was a soldier for the Philippine military allied with the Americans, got killed in battle.  She was left with 3 kids, my mother being the youngest and only a toddler.  The Philippines was a warzone with the Japanese controlling my grandmother's hometown.  My grandmother's brother was also a soldier for the Philippine military.  My great uncle went AWOL and took my grandmother and her 3 kids to the mountains to hide from the Japanese as they would have all been killed because they were American allies.  This is Love... my great uncle's love for her sister does not come from warm-and-fuzzies.  It comes from the decision that led him to put my grandmother's life above his own.

 

Another one from my grandma and great uncle's story... after the war, my grandmother went back to her hometown to piece their lives back together.  At that time in the Philippines, it was impossible for a woman to find a job.  Her best option was to marry.  But she couldn't.  She told me that she couldn't do it because she couldn't face my grandpa in heaven and tell him she became somebody else's wife.  She feels it will hurt my grandpa.  This is also Love.  It doesn't come from warm-and-fussy... it comes from my grandma's decision to put my grandpa's welfare ahead of her own.

 

Now, my great-uncle had a girlfriend that he's had since before the war.  After the war, they could've gotten together and got married... but, my great uncle did not marry her.  Instead, he stayed with my grandma to help her care for her 3 children.  This is also Love.  It's another decision.

 

But, what about the girlfriend?  Doesn't he love the girlfriend?  Of course, he does.  So, he continued to be available as much as he was able to serve his girlfriend.  He would travel across many islands just to help his girlfriend (who wasn't his girlfriend anymore, actually) with anything - like submitting documents to the govt., etc.  This is also Love.

 

My great uncle never got married.  He only had one girl... and that was his girlfriend.  He encouraged her to get married so somebody could care for her too... but... as things turned out, she never got married either.  She loved my great uncle too and so she wanted to be unfettered so she can serve my great uncle as well...

 

My great uncle is now 94 years old.  His girlfriend has died years ago.  I would ask him, do you ever regret not getting married, uncle?  And he would reply... oh no.  I don't regret it one bit.  I loved 2 women with everything that I had in me and that has made me the luckiest man on earth.

 

So... this is my example of Love.  None of them ever asks for Love for themselves.  They all Love somebody.  So, they don't Love because they feel something from somebody doing something for them, or somebody loving them or any of that.  They Love somebody because they DO something FOR somebody.  It flows outwards, not inwards.

 

And this has been my guiding force in my life.  I love my husband and my children very much.  I decided that.  It has no bearing - none at all - on what my husband and children do for me.  I could wake up tomorrow to realize my husband is a serial killer... it won't change that love.  I am dedicated to serve him - to bring him with me to my journey to Christ - for all the days of my life.

 

So, this is my suggestion for you... don't worry about who loves you.  That doesn't matter.  Worry only on loving someone.  Choosing a person that you will dedicate to serve.  You don't have to commit to loving them for "the rest of your life".  Commit to loving them for a period of time - without conditions.

 

I am optimistic that once you have experienced doing this - just letting yourself go like this - you will start to feel that love encompass your life and you will start to see how God has loved you all your life...

Edited by anatess
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Maybe it is one of those life situation where all another can do is shrug their shoulders and say it sucks to be you.

 

Well, there's a new expression I must add to my list of day-brightening encouragements.  :P

 

Maybe they're not saying "it sucks to be you."  Maybe they're really saying, "It sucks to be where you are right now," and you are hearing it as "it sucks to be you."

 

Have you enjoyed the experience of being sweaty and grimy on a hot summer day and then running outside as the rain starts?  The warm raindrops cover you head to toe like a water avalanche and seem to wash away your troubles, leaving you feeling fresh and renewed.  That's what unconditional love feels like to me (but I like your Grinch example, too).  I feel it from my mom, from a few of my relatives, from most dogs I meet, and even in a grudging way from my cat.

 

I would not focus on erasing the negative things in life.  I would focus instead on filling my life with good things, like love, and it will push the bad stuff out.  I don't mean to sound smug or syrupy here.  Your comments reveal that you have gone through a lot and need some industrial-strength healing.  I totally agree with Eowyn's comment above.

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Guest LiterateParakeet

I don't know what it is that I expect. That is a good question. I do remember when I watched "How the Grinch Stole Christmas" (animated) as a child and his heart grew bigger, I thought somehow that must be how it felt. One therapist did say that I had not experienced unconditional love.

 

John, I'm so sorry.  My first 18 yrs of life were full of misery too.  Sucks to be us, right?  

 

I can relate to what you are feeling about God.  I spent a long period of time (a few years) being angry at God.  Eventually, I was able to overcome my anger.  It is a long story (too long to write here), but I'd be happy to talk to you about it if you'd like.  Part of what helped me was that I found scriptures stories that showed me God's love and helped me begin to trust Him again.  It took time.  There's no magic bullet, but it is doable.

 

I really think given your background, how you feel is very understandable.  

 

 

 

Well, there's a new expression I must add to my list of day-brightening encouragements.  :P

 

Maybe they're not saying "it sucks to be you."  Maybe they're really saying, "It sucks to be where you are right now," and you are hearing it as "it sucks to be you."

 

It's interesting that you mention this.  I don't know if this is true for John, but I recently realized it is for me.  My therapist said (with a kind smile) that I "trend toward misery".  I thought that was a horrible, offensive, hurtful thing to say....but later when I calmed down, I thought about it.  I've been in therapy long enough to know my therapist would not intentionally hurt me.  So then I had to ask myself if what he said was true?  And if so, is that a bad thing? 

 

I realized (and maybe this is true for you too, John--but only you can say) that it is true.  And that isn't bad...it just is.  (Sure it's not ideal.)  The first 18 yrs of my life were pretty miserable, so of course I trend toward misery.  That's the way my brain is wired.  It was necessary for self-preservation!  But now my life is very, very different.  It's time to re-write my brain for my new life.  I'm working on it.  One day, one week at a time.  

 

There's hope John...little by little we can do this.

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Work on your crown chakra

 

 

Have you looked into therapy?

 

 

I would focus instead on filling my life with good things

 

 

 I used drugs to overcome it. Those drugs were amazing and helpful 

pardon the observation --  i mean not to offend any person but to offend falsehood, as falsehood is offense to the Truth -- but Hindu mysticism, humanist psychology, "good things" and drugs? 

is this LDS doctrine on the source of love? is Jesus Christ not of any avail?

We love him, because he first loved us.

(1 John 4:19)

in my own life i have tried many things, and only one satisfies: my Savior and my Lord.  

love was never in me until i conceded myself to Him and He put it there. 

 

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Don't you think God provides ways to help those who have gone through trauma work through them? Absolutely prayer and faith are the first line defense, but a good therapist and medicine to correct imbalances are often necessary weapons, too. 

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Don't you think God provides ways to help those who have gone through trauma work through them? Absolutely prayer and faith are the first line defense, but a good therapist and medicine to correct imbalances are often necessary weapons, too. 

i do, it's just that i am dismayed how few of the responses point at the Lord, and how many point at human devices. 

** wants that Christ should be lifted up ** 

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pardon the observation -- i mean not to offend any person but to offend falsehood, as falsehood is offense to the Truth -- but Hindu mysticism, humanist psychology, "good things" and drugs?

is this LDS doctrine on the source of love? is Jesus Christ not of any avail?We love him, because he first loved us.(1 John 4:19)

in my own life i have tried many things, and only one satisfies: my Savior and my Lord.

love was never in me until i conceded myself to Him and He put it there.

For all your desire to offend falsehood, you sure seemed to step into it pretty deeply with this mischaracterization of LDS teaching generally and Eowyn's, PolarVortex's, and FunkyTown's posts in particular.

Do you think your master is pleased?

Edited by Just_A_Guy
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