Ying and Yang


Traveler
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One of the most powerful doctrines of salvation is mentioned in scripture as the doctrine of being whole or complete.   Many times Jesus spoke to individuals and told them that their faith had made them “whole”.  There are two other terms in ancient scripture associated with whole.  Those terms are “perfect” and complete.  Like many doctrines we tend to understand such things from a limited perspective.   It is my honest belief and experience that discipline in the ancient concept of ying and yang helps in understanding being whole or complete.

 

Part of the problem come from the western philosophy of opposing forces as associated with good and evil.  Since we tend to understand such things as opposites we tend to miss the beautiful balance of wholeness that comes through the understanding of ying and yang.   So to understand ying and yang – forget your notions of opposites and competing things.  Think instead of things that complement each other – and the balance of such complementary things or things of dual nature.  Think of two necessary virtues.

 

It may help to give an example.  Strength and tenderness or Justice and compassion and mercy.  Please note that these virtues complement each other and when in balance something very special results.  When out of balance the result is not good.    I believe that balance is the art and doctrine of being whole or perfect.   It is my purpose in this thread to draw attention to things that when in balance brings wholeness, holiness, perfectness and completeness; when out of balance holiness, wholeness, perfectness and completeness becomes unreachable, unattainable and if you will – unnatural.    The balance of ying and yang is a divine doctrine at the heart and core of divine salvation and becoming one with G-d. 

 

I thought to dedicate this thread to understanding ying and yang as dual complementary natures and so list such complementary virtues and how such in balance is good and out of balance is not so good.

 

Male and female

Physical and spiritual

Desire and economy

Passion and compassion

Questions????    Comments???

Edited by Traveler
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Yin and Yang.

 

Sorry... I can't resist.

 

 

I don't agree with Physicality and Spirituality as Yin Yang.  Rather, Physicality is simply the vehicle by which Spirituality is given the means to learn to overcome opposition.  Therefore, they're not complements.  It is the objective for Spirituality (eternal) to SUBDUE Physicality (mortal)... not to complement it.

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Democrat and Republican   :)

 

A religion professor of mine used to bark up this tree all the time.  (It was an interesting tree.)  I remember him saying that "salvation" had its roots in "healing" and "completeness," and we see remnants of this in English, as in the words "salve" and "salvage."  I think he was wrong, because those words are not etymologically intertwined, but it was a nice thought anyway.

 

I once heard a lecture from a certain history professor named Michael Sugrue.  He has some videos on YouTube and he's really an interesting speaker.  He gave a lecture that claimed that God's justice and mercy were two sides of the same divine coin.  I always assumed justice and mercy were opposites and not synonyms.  The professor built an interesting case that both referred to a single substance that emanated from God but was seen as justice in some human contexts and mercy in others.  At least it reminded me that the cosmos is not obligated to follow human models of description and understanding.

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 It is the objective for Spirituality (eternal) to SUBDUE Physicality (mortal)... not to complement it.

I agree in part.( please forgive me if i'm reading to far into this)

 

There is an underlying trend i've been noticing brought up in church on occasion, it's this idea that all things physical, carnal are bad. People hinting that their bodies are gross and disgusting, their appetites are bad etc.

 

It is the job of the Spiritual to over come the Physical, but that doesn't mean the physical is bad. We got our bodies because they are good. Yes they and physical things can be used improperly, and there are flaws because of the fallen state of the world, but sometimes people need to remember of how physical things are also a blessing, to complement the spirit. 

 

https://www.lds.org/scriptures/dc-testament/dc/93.33?lang=eng#32

 

 

 33 For man is spirit. The elements are eternal, and spirit and element, inseparably connected, receive a fulness of joy;34 And when separated, man cannot receive a fullness of joy.

The body complements the spirit, to receive a fullness of joy.

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A few more notes:  Anatess caught that the official title is yin and yang - in western society it is also know as ying and yang.

 

I am thinking though; that most really do not understand the complementary balance of yin and yang.  I deliberately listed the two virtues backwards ie Strength and tenderness.  They rightfully should be listed as tenderness and strength or as seem to be of most interest - the spiritual and the physical.  yin or ying represent the noble and yang the great.

 

In the pre-existence G-d references his best with the balance of ying and yang - the noble and great as his chosen..

 

It is also interesting to note that our brain seems to also be so balanced with the right and left side.  Often if one favors one brain side over the other we say they are right or left brained. 

 

I sometime wonder if most disagreements and arguments are fundamentally the result of yin and yang imbalance in one or both of those contending.

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A few more notes:  Anatess caught that the official title is yin and yang - in western society it is also know as ying and yang.

 

I am thinking though; that most really do not understand the complementary balance of yin and yang.  I deliberately listed the two virtues backwards ie Strength and tenderness.  They rightfully should be listed as tenderness and strength or as seem to be of most interest - the spiritual and the physical.  yin or ying represent the noble and yang the great.

 

In the pre-existence G-d references his best with the balance of ying and yang - the noble and great as his chosen..

 

It is also interesting to note that our brain seems to also be so balanced with the right and left side.  Often if one favors one brain side over the other we say they are right or left brained. 

 

I sometime wonder if most disagreements and arguments are fundamentally the result of yin and yang imbalance in one or both of those contending.

When one studies the brain carefully, one realizes it isn't so much a battle between left and right side of the brain, it is more of a battle between cortical and subcortical circuits, the logical and the primitive instincts of the brain.  The right and left brain balance drives personality and likes and dislikes but it doesn't compete between each other.  The greater competition within the brain has to do with primitive drives such as hunger, for example, vs the higher cortical function of the brain that says "I'm not going to steal the food off my neighbors plate just because I am hungry".  The primitive drives of anger, thirst, hunger, jealosy, pride etc. are counterbalanced by the logical parts of the brain, the higher functioning that have to couch those drives within some social norm and acceptable behavior.   The change in Phineas Gage is an example of what happens, in part, when the two do not oppose each other and the primitive part of the brain is cut off from the logical, social norm driving parts.

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I agree in part.( please forgive me if i'm reading to far into this)

 

There is an underlying trend i've been noticing brought up in church on occasion, it's this idea that all things physical, carnal are bad. People hinting that their bodies are gross and disgusting, their appetites are bad etc.

 

It is the job of the Spiritual to over come the Physical, but that doesn't mean the physical is bad. We got our bodies because they are good. Yes they and physical things can be used improperly, and there are flaws because of the fallen state of the world, but sometimes people need to remember of how physical things are also a blessing, to complement the spirit. 

 

https://www.lds.org/scriptures/dc-testament/dc/93.33?lang=eng#32

The body complements the spirit, to receive a fullness of joy.

 

The body is not a complement.  And it is not bad.  It is merely mortal.  With mortal desires.  It doesn't go beyond that.  Only the Spirit does.  They can't be yin and yang because the physical doesn't have purpose besides being the vehicle to exercise the Spirit's free agency in its way through its eternal progression.  The body, therefore, has no will of its own outside of its instinctive mechanisms for survival and is, therefore, just a tool.  It doesn't need to be elevated to yang to be thought of as good.

 

Think of it as me and my computer.  My computer has a BIOS that runs when it powers up - preprogrammed (as in, "instinctive") into it.  But, without the user, the computer has no purpose.  A user makes good use of the computer to enhance his knowledge, but, in the end, the user can do without the computer.  A user and the computer do not have a yin/yang relationship.  And the computer doesn't need to be elevated to yang to be thought of as good/useful.

Edited by anatess
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The body is not a complement.  And it is not bad.  It is merely mortal.  With mortal desires.  It doesn't go beyond that.  Only the Spirit does.  They can't be yin and yang because the physical doesn't have purpose besides being the vehicle to exercise the Spirit's free agency in its way through its eternal progression.  The body, therefore, has no will of its own outside of its instinctive mechanisms for survival and is, therefore, just a tool.  It doesn't need to be elevated to yang to be thought of as good.

 

Think of it as me and my computer.  My computer has a BIOS that runs when it powers up - preprogrammed (as in, "instinctive") into it.  But, without the user, the computer has no purpose.  A user makes good use of the computer to enhance his knowledge, but, in the end, the user can do without the computer.  A user and the computer do not have a yin/yang relationship.  And the computer doesn't need to be elevated to yang to be thought of as good/useful.

 

Then why does resurrection matter?

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The body is not a complement.  And it is not bad.  It is merely mortal.  With mortal desires.  It doesn't go beyond that.  Only the Spirit does.  They can't be yin and yang because the physical doesn't have purpose besides being the vehicle to exercise the Spirit's free agency in its way through its eternal progression.  The body, therefore, has no will of its own outside of its instinctive mechanisms for survival and is, therefore, just a tool.  It doesn't need to be elevated to yang to be thought of as good.

 

Think of it as me and my computer.  My computer has a BIOS that runs when it powers up - preprogrammed (as in, "instinctive") into it.  But, without the user, the computer has no purpose.  A user makes good use of the computer to enhance his knowledge, but, in the end, the user can do without the computer.  A user and the computer do not have a yin/yang relationship.  And the computer doesn't need to be elevated to yang to be thought of as good/useful.

I totally disagree with this idea.  We are told numerous times that the body has it's own nature.  Prophets have stated we are dual natured, not one nature with an extender.  Recent general conference talks even have described the body as having it's own passions and drives.  Elder Holland has spoken of mental disorders as something to be treated like we do any other type of illness of the body.  In many areas of the scriptures we are taught that there is such a thing as the learning of man and the understanding of men and this occurs when a person does not listen to the spirit or has very little spiritual insight.

 

When a person has psychosis, hallucinations etc, is that generated from the spirit or are those spontaneous thoughts from the brain (the body)?  If a person has Alzheimers was the spirit injured?  Why does the body and the brain have to develop to a certain point and have certain characteristics and abilities before one can be held accountable?  If the body does nothing but extend the spirit then there should be no reason why one with Down's syndrome is not held accountable for their actions.  If a person with Tourrette's yells out an explitive during Sacrament meeting, you believe that was generated by the spirit alone, that the body is just the reflection of the spiritual input?  Or could it be that the brain actually does generate spontaneous mortal thought with which we have to contend? 

 

Unlike a computer, the brain, imagines, it makes up false information, it is run by self preservation (selfishness) in many different ways that can represent itself in terms of hunger, thirst, drive for power, jealousy, sexual drives, anger, prideful intellectualism etc.  The filled in "blind spot" in your vision is made up by the brain.  It created new information that was not there. Yes, it can do that!  It is not made by the spirit.  (As one small example.)  Most dreams are made up by the brain.   

 

We have a hard time separating what comes from the brain vs the spirit but most often the spirit is described as a still small voice type influence, it is hard to tune into it.  The default, the natural man, does not listen to spiritual influences.  So, in other words, most of our thought and actions and especially if one is not striving 100%of the time for spiritual insight, is driven by the mortal brain. If one did not work hard at it their thoughts would be occupied by mostly brain derived material not spirit.  The carnal has to be overcome in order to let the spirit be the controling force in one's life.  That is the test, what is in control the carnal man or the spiritual man.  Most in this world do not have the spirit in control.

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The body is not a complement.  And it is not bad.  It is merely mortal.  With mortal desires.  It doesn't go beyond that.  

 

hmm, I'll consider what you say, but this isn't quite how I understand it. I'm not quite convinced. It's basically similar ideas with a different understanding.

 

I'll keep an eye out while reading scripture for enlightenment.

Edited by Crypto
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Then why does resurrection matter?

 

Not even sure how this is related to the yin/yang discussion.  Our bodies at resurrection is not our mortal bodies.  The mortal body came from dust and to dust it shall return.  Our resurrected body does not pose an opposite but complementary condition to our Spirits.  At least not as I understand how our resurrected bodies are going to be.

Edited by anatess
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I totally disagree with this idea.  We are told numerous times that the body has it's own nature.  Prophets have stated we are dual natured, not one nature with an extender.  Recent general conference talks even have described the body as having it's own passions and drives.  Elder Holland has spoken of mental disorders as something to be treated like we do any other type of illness of the body.  In many areas of the scriptures we are taught that there is such a thing as the learning of man and the understanding of men and this occurs when a person does not listen to the spirit or has very little spiritual insight.

 

When a person has psychosis, hallucinations etc, is that generated from the spirit or are those spontaneous thoughts from the brain (the body)?  If a person has Alzheimers was the spirit injured?  Why does the body and the brain have to develop to a certain point and have certain characteristics and abilities before one can be held accountable?  If the body does nothing but extend the spirit then there should be no reason why one with Down's syndrome is not held accountable for their actions.  If a person with Tourrette's yells out an explitive during Sacrament meeting, you believe that was generated by the spirit alone, that the body is just the reflection of the spiritual input?  Or could it be that the brain actually does generate spontaneous mortal thought with which we have to contend? 

 

Unlike a computer, the brain, imagines, it makes up false information, it is run by self preservation (selfishness) in many different ways that can represent itself in terms of hunger, thirst, drive for power, jealousy, sexual drives, anger, prideful intellectualism etc.  The filled in "blind spot" in your vision is made up by the brain.  It created new information that was not there. Yes, it can do that!  It is not made by the spirit.  (As one small example.)  Most dreams are made up by the brain.   

 

We have a hard time separating what comes from the brain vs the spirit but most often the spirit is described as a still small voice type influence, it is hard to tune into it.  The default, the natural man, does not listen to spiritual influences.  So, in other words, most of our thought and actions and especially if one is not striving 100%of the time for spiritual insight, is driven by the mortal brain. If one did not work hard at it their thoughts would be occupied by mostly brain derived material not spirit.  The carnal has to be overcome in order to let the spirit be the controling force in one's life.  That is the test, what is in control the carnal man or the spiritual man.  Most in this world do not have the spirit in control.

 

 

I don't understand how what you're saying above disagrees with what I said about the computer... Everything you said about the "natural man" is what I'm referring to as the BIOS on the computer.  It does not pose a yang to the Spiritual yin.

Edited by anatess
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I always understood Yin and Yang as simply a symbol of duality--what we think of as "opposition in all things." Agency and perception depend on duality. If we don't have the contrast, choices don't exist. The two abide together in one. Without agency and opposition, there is no existence.

 

It is exactly duality - yes, the opposition of all things.  But there's nothing simple about it.

 

Basically, the overall concept is - light is meaningless without dark, beauty is meaningless without ugly, hot is meaningless without cold.  But, even within the sphere of light, there exists yin and yang - bright light is meaningless without dim light, etc. so that every single thing can be a yin for something (dim light is a yin to dark) but a yang in another thing (dim light is a yang to bright light).  In addition, there is a clear demarcation - a Center - where the yin ends and the yang begins... the end of light is the start of dark.  But, at the same time, the demarcation is not absolute - just like the light of day doesn't abruptly end and the dark of night begins - there's a gradual ebb and flow from one to the other where light slowly fades into dark and dark slowly fades into day - so it is very malleable where one ends and the other begins.

 

But in Toaism (where yin and yang is used to guide one's life) what is yin and yang have to be in balance for the whole to be good/moral/healthy.  Light and dark are yin and yang to each other that when there is increased light, it causes a decreased dark - a shift in balance towards excess yin or a deficient yang both of which are not ideal.  The opposite is also out of balance - excess yang or a deficient yin.  Make sense?

 

That's why I proposed that Spiritual and Physical is not yin/yang - at least not in mortality (I don't know enough of the characteristics of our resurrected physical bodies to apply the yin/yang concept to it).  Because it just doesn't have that increase/decrease type of relationship so much so that an excess of Spiritual is out of balance.

Edited by anatess
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Not even sure how this is related to the yin/yang discussion.  Our bodies at resurrection is not our mortal bodies.  The mortal body came from dust and to dust it shall return.  Our resurrected body does not pose an opposite but complementary condition to our Spirits.  At least not as I understand how our resurrected bodies are going to be.

 

It is relevant to the discussion because of our differing perceptions of what the discussion is; from my perspective the idea that physical equates to mortal/temporal is flawed. Physical bodies exist in the eternities as well as spiritual bodies. One cannot achieve perfection without both. It seems highly likely that the physical and spiritual are complementary entities. In fact it would seem illogical if they weren't, why would our Heavenly Father's plan involve bothering with getting bodies at all if physicality didn't provide some sort of complement to spirituality?

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It is relevant to the discussion because of our differing perceptions of what the discussion is; from my perspective the idea that physical equates to mortal/temporal is flawed. Physical bodies exist in the eternities as well as spiritual bodies. One cannot achieve perfection without both. It seems highly likely that the physical and spiritual are complementary entities. In fact it would seem illogical if they weren't, why would our Heavenly Father's plan involve bothering with getting bodies at all if physicality didn't provide some sort of complement to spirituality?

 

Yes, we definitely have very differing perceptions of what the discussion is... The discussion is Yin and Yang relationships... not just any complementary relationships or cooperative relationships or parasitic relationships, etc. etc.

 

In Yin and Yang - one exists BECAUSE of the other.  The perfect example of which is light and dark.  Light only exists because there is Dark... otherwise, without dark, Light doesn't have meaning.  I don't see this at all related to the existence of Spiritual and Physical duality of mankind because I cannot grasp the idea that without the body there is no Spirit... otherwise, the concept of Spirit World is not possible.

Edited by anatess
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no up without down, no right without left, no good without evil?  Is sin necessary to experience good? but then Jesus was able to be complete without sin.

Jesus experienced a great deal of sin, almost from birth. He simply did not allow it to stain him by participating in it.

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This discussion enticed me to read a little bit more regarding yinyang and its basic tenets.  Three tenets I found to be very interesting: 

  1. Yinyang has no “valuational hierarchy, as if yin could be abstracted from yang (or vice versa), regarded as superior or considered metaphysically separated and distinct.”
  2. Yinyang is described in terms of “excess” and “deficiency”.  Where there is excess in yin, causing deficiency in yang (vice-versa) the result is always confusion and calamity.
  3. Yin refers to “a closed door, darkness and the south bank of a river and the north side of a mountain.” Yang refers to “height, brightness and the south side of a mountain.”

At first thought, I also didn’t think physicality and spirituality were complements; however, upon further thought I am leaning more toward what Crypto mentioned:

 

“For man is spirit. The elements are eternal, and spirit and element, inseparably connected, receive a fulness of joy.”

 

Physical matter seen by the naked eye in contrast to spiritual matter which are more fine and pure.  A deficiency of a spiritual element (body) lead to fallen man and then an increase toward becoming Godlike (the spirit and element connected eternally).

 

In light of tenet #1, how are good and evil complements, and one not being superior than the other?  The knowledge of calling an action good (yang), evil (yin) is created.  Is not good superior to evil?  Is not light superior to darkness and darkness flees from the light.

 

The complement of rest (yin) versus action (yang) reminds me of the words of King Benjamin,

 

“And see that all these things are done in wisdom and order; for it is not requisite that man should run faster than he has strength [yin]. And again, it is expedient that he should be diligent [yang].”

 

An excess of “rest” would lead to slothfulness (harming spirit), while an excess of “diligence” can harm the body.

Edited by Anddenex
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Yes, we definitely have very differing perceptions of what the discussion is... The discussion is Yin and Yang relationships... not just any complementary relationships or cooperative relationships or parasitic relationships, etc. etc.

 

In Yin and Yang - one exists BECAUSE of the other.  The perfect example of which is light and dark.  Light only exists because there is Dark... otherwise, without dark, Light doesn't have meaning.  I don't see this at all related to the existence of Spiritual and Physical duality of mankind because I cannot grasp the idea that without the body there is no Spirit... otherwise, the concept of Spirit World is not possible.

 

Well perhaps we'll just continue to see things differently. From my perspective the two are as inseparable as male and female which are clearly yin and yang as I understand it. The spirit and body make up the eternal soul of man. God created spirit bodies for His spirit children already in the likeness of the physical form which they would later assume. At death the spirit and body are separated until the resurrection at which time they will again reunite. In fact (although I'm not sure I agree with your premise that one exists because of the other) it seems that using your same example above that the light only exists because there is dark one could postulate that the physical body only exists because of the spirit. However this can really get into a chicken or egg conversation that we simply don't have the answers to as it could also be argued that without the physical there could be no spiritual because God consists of both physical and spiritual matter and created everything.

 

Back to the comparison of male and female, lets just say for comparison's sake that men are akin to the physical and women the spiritual. Either can exist as separate entities at varying points in time, although neither can be created without both. So I can see the spirit world as single life and resurrected life as the improved yin/yang balance of married life, just now the marriage of physical and spiritual instead of male and female. So I personally don't understand what the point your trying to make is that just because spirits can temporarily exist without physical bodies that they cannot have a yin/yang balancing complementary relationship. The only spirits that will not be eternally united with physical bodies are those in outer darkness where I doubt a happy yin/Yang balance between the two exists... it isn't a balanced and harmonious place.

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Perhaps, instead of thinking of this as spiritual and physical, in terms of the body, it would relate more to physical action and spiritual action.  For example, we have the doctrine from James that grace without works is dead, being alone and that we should be doers of the word, not hearers only.  Then we have Paul's saved by grace, not by works lest any man should boast.  These could be considered yin and yang regarding grace.  Grace and works cannot be separated.  They have to be balanced.  We can't walk away from feeding the poor, for example, and just spend our lives in prayer and meditation.  Likewise, we can't work our way to heaven relying solely upon good works. 

 

We see examples of the grace/works thing being out of balance with some Protestant sects.  The Westminster Confession of Faith goes so far as to say that good works done by "unregenerate" men are actually offensive to God.  Martin Luther called James the "epistle of straw."  They've gone so far to one side that they actually oppose doing good!  On the other hand, I have known latter-day saints who have gone so far in doing good works that they became obsessive and lost the peace that comes from grace.  There has to be a balance to be spiritually healthy. 

 

The focus in the earlier parts of the thread on the mind/spirit and the physical body gets too close to Gnosticism.  The Gnostics went so far as to downplay the role of the physical body that they couldn't accept that Jesus was a physical being.  That led to the belief that he was an Aeon and that the physical resurrection could not have happened.  Thus Paul wrote with such urgency in 1 Corinthians about the reality of the resurrection.  Mind/spirit and body have to be balanced.

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I started this thread - in part as an effort to bring new ideas to this forum concerning the ancient doctrine taught by Jesus concerning the idea of being whole, holy, complete and perfect.  Most modern students of ancient scripture think of divine perfection as something void of flaw.  In this thread I have attempted to introduce an new idea of things holy and perfect.  To do this I have suggested looking at the possibility through the lens of yin and yang.

 

My understanding of yin and yang come from personal studies of Buddhism.  In Buddhism the whole idea of enlightenment is balance.  To better understand I would suggest the writings of the Buddhist philosopher Ken Wilber in  his book "The Marriage of Sense and Soul".  The very idea of sense and soul is in essence the balance of yin and yang or the idea of balance of two necessary and good attributes that when out of balance results in chaos.  But when in balance produces something holy - even divine perfection.

 

I did not intend to convince, convert or instruct anyone the fundamentals of holiness or constructs of yin and yang.  All I hoped to do is add to understanding of those that are searching for additional perspective to assist them in seeing more completely - realizing that often disagreements are not because of opposites but because our discussions and understanding often lack balance. 

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I started this thread - in part as an effort to bring new ideas to this forum concerning the ancient doctrine taught by Jesus concerning the idea of being whole, holy, complete and perfect.  Most modern students of ancient scripture think of divine perfection as something void of flaw.  In this thread I have attempted to introduce an new idea of things holy and perfect.  To do this I have suggested looking at the possibility through the lens of yin and yang.

 

My understanding of yin and yang come from personal studies of Buddhism.  In Buddhism the whole idea of enlightenment is balance.  To better understand I would suggest the writings of the Buddhist philosopher Ken Wilber in  his book "The Marriage of Sense and Soul".  The very idea of sense and soul is in essence the balance of yin and yang or the idea of balance of two necessary and good attributes that when out of balance results in chaos.  But when in balance produces something holy - even divine perfection.

 

I did not intend to convince, convert or instruct anyone the fundamentals of holiness or constructs of yin and yang.  All I hoped to do is add to understanding of those that are searching for additional perspective to assist them in seeing more completely - realizing that often disagreements are not because of opposites but because our discussions and understanding often lack balance. 

 

Thanks for the insight. I have enjoyed exploring concepts of opposition in terms of balance instead of domination.

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I don't understand how what you're saying above disagrees with what I said about the computer... Everything you said about the "natural man" is what I'm referring to as the BIOS on the computer.  It does not pose a yang to the Spiritual yin.

Because a computer does what it is "told" or programmed to do.  A better metaphor might be a cowboy on a wild horse.  Until the passions of the body are bridled and controlled the "wild horse" will do what it wants, this is the natural man state.  Even after subdued, the "wild horse" will still have its tendencies and needs that are different than the rider's.  The ying and the yang suggest two different masters or the possibility that one is stronger than the other.  

 

Most of the time, while in this life, the body is in control.  Even the most skilled at spiritual influence will find it difficult to not fall asleep when the body master expresses its drives, just like what happened with the apostles, for example.

 

The computer does not exert its demands over mine or even close, it can't tell me what to do (another person's programing and input might tell me what to do but nothing generated by the computer alone can have some force over me)... so its not the best example of what dual opposing natures means when talking about our carnal vs spiritual nature.  There are passions and forces generated by the body alone, that do not come from the spirit, this is what is meant by dual opposing natures explained by President David O. McKay.

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A scripture illustration that I would think supports this type of "complete" / "wholeness" construct is God's balance between justice and mercy.  Justice to be complete can not rob mercy and mercy to be complete can not rob justice.

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