Gun opinions

[mirkwood]

I shot the new Glock 17 today.

 

Glock perfection? Maybe. 

 

Preach it brother, Preach It!

[bytor2112]

I am really digging the Glock! So much so, I am going to purchase a Glock 26. They are really simple and kind of perfect....weird.

[Capitalist_Oinker]

How about a few words of wisdom regarding the principal of self defense and gun control from the prophet Joseph Smith.

 

"There is one principle which is eternal; it is the duty of all men to protect their lives and the lives of their household, whenever necessity requires, and no power has a right to forbid it."

(History of the Church 6:605)

 

In his journal (June 15, 1944) Joseph  wrote: 

"Two brethren came from Lima, and said that Colonel Levi Williams had demanded the arms belonging to the Mormons in that neighborhood. They wished my advice on the subject. I told them that when they gave up their arms, to give up their lives with them."

 

Two days later on the 17th he wrote a letter to his Uncle John Smith regarding his (Joseph’s ) instructions in case of mob violence:

"We feel to hope for the best, and determined to prepare for the worst; and we want this to be your motto in common with us, That we will never ground our arms until we give them up by death."

 

(The modern day version of this would be: “give up your guns when they pry them from your cold, dead fingers.”)  :)  

 

Later in the same letter he wrote: 

"It is impossible to give you correct information what to do beforehand; but act according to the emergency of the case, but never give up your arms, but die first."

 

What do you think he would have been---NRA Life or Benefactor? 

[Pa Pa]

I am 57, soon to be 58 and have a broken back and walk with a cane. Being ex-Military and retired Police, I have many weapons to choose from, I have a conceal carry permit....but since I have my retirement badge, I just carry mine on my hip as I did when on the force. My sons ask why I don't conceal it and I tell them; why hide it? I either carry my S&W 9mm or one of the greatest guns ever made, my Walther PPK 380. A lot of people should not carry guns, because pausing in shooting to protect yourself or family can end up with being shot by your own gun. Guns are dangerous and should not be carried by those who just feel empowered or to feel like a man. You do not need to have a gun to be a man or to be taken seriously and if you think you do, then by all means you don't need to even own a gun.

[Latter Days Guy]

You trust a Government that's already demonstrated its lack of trust in the citizenry by taking away your guns.  I find that interesting.

 

Why would I need a gun?  And you can own guns in the UK its just very hard to get one.  Hand guns where banned in the UK because of the public outcry after a school shooting, the politicians reacted to the over whelming public outcry for the banning of such weapons.  Where as every other week you hear of school shootings in the US where the reaction is the opposite. 

Edited February 13, 2015 by Latter Days Guy

[mirkwood]

.  Where as every other week you hear of school shootings in the US where the reaction is the opposite. 

 

If you hear this every other week, you should select a better source of news.

[Pa Pa]

Why would I need a gun? And you can own guns in the UK its just very hard to get one. Hand guns where banned in the UK because of the public outcry after a school shooting, the politicians reacted to the over whelming public outcry for the banning of such weapons. Where as every other week you hear of school shootings in the US where the reaction is the opposite.

That is simply untrue and an example of anti-America, which most,of Europe is. Also when such shootings does happen it is no registered gun owners. Wow...just wow.

[Latter Days Guy]

That is simply untrue and an example of anti-America, which most,of Europe is. Also when such shootings does happen it is no registered gun owners. Wow...just wow.

 

Anti America what?  Seems that all the big gun news from the states that I've seen recently has been of people who have legally owned guns shooting people or their children finding them and shooting themselves or others.

We in the UK had two incidents of legally owned gun owners going on a rampage and killing people, the second incident was the Dunblane massacre where 16 young children and there teacher were gunned down with legally owned firearms.  The response was a public outcry and a call for a ban on all hand guns which followed soon afterwards.  Where as in the US the Sandy Hook school shootings for example the exact opposite is seen to happen with the gun lobby out in force defending the rights of people to own guns even in the face of such a tragedy.  That is what most people I know can't get their heads around, that the right to own guns seems to be more important than stopping such tragedies from happening. 

Edited February 14, 2015 by Latter Days Guy

[Bini]

My opinion: don't like them around.

[Guest MormonGator]

My opinion: don't like them around.

I'm the same way, but my wife was a gun owner before she met me. I was like "um...okay" but after years of dating/being married she sort of convinced me that a good guy (or woman, in her case) with a gun really is your last line of defense against a bad guy with a gun. 

 

It's because a bad guy with a gun does not care about the law. If he wants a gun, he isn't going to the local Bass Pro Shop, fill out all  the paperwork and get a fresh, new gun. He's probably just going to steal one, if not from Bass Pro (I like to fish so my mind goes to that store first) than from a pawn shop or private owner. 

Edited February 15, 2015 by MormonGator

[Bini]

I'm not interested in debating this topic. I stand firm in not wanting them around. And I'm not only concerned about criminals, but the innocent that are hurt or killed from a firearm being accessible. Too many home accidents lately, here in the US, where a toddler or teen gets their hands on their parents' firearms and someone is hurt or killed. I don't care whose fault it is - child or parent - one accident/fatality is one too many. Don't like them around.

[Vort]

I'm not interested in debating this topic. I stand firm in not wanting them around.

 

Bini, this sounds like you're saying, "Here's my opinion. I don't care to hear yours." Which may be perfectly true, but it's sort of a conversational wet blanket.

 

Full disclosure: I personally do not have strong feelings on the topic, except that I support the Second Amendment. (To be more precise, I have conflicted feelings on the topic.)

 

But when you say, "one accident/fatality is one too many," I wonder if you would apply the same principle to the use of fire, or horses, or automobiles, or stoves, or construction, or installing a large television. Is even one accident or fatality too many in those instances? Shall we never do anything at all because, hey, there's a risk of accident or death?

 

That line of logic terminates very early, and I daresay there are vanishingly few who actually believe it when extended at all beyond the immediate topic. It's not a rational consideration of the topic, but more like a convenient thing to say to end discussion on it.

[Pa Pa]

Anti America what? Seems that all the big gun news from the states that I've seen recently has been of people who have legally owned guns shooting people or their children finding them and shooting themselves or others.

We in the UK had two incidents of legally owned gun owners going on a rampage and killing people, the second incident was the Dunblane massacre where 16 young children and there teacher were gunned down with legally owned firearms. The response was a public outcry and a call for a ban on all hand guns which followed soon afterwards. Where as in the US the Sandy Hook school shootings for example the exact opposite is seen to happen with the gun lobby out in force defending the rights of people to own guns even in the face of such a tragedy. That is what most people I know can't get their heads around, that the right to own guns seems to be more important than stopping such tragedies from happening.

I misread I thought you were speaking of weekly shooting in America...my apologies.

[Capitalist_Oinker]

But someone has to take a stand, find the guts to say 'I would rather die than kill', live by that creed, and provide that example.

 

Well, you're more than welcome to do so along with all other like-minded individuals. But you have no right to force your pacifism on the rest of us who don't share your feelings.

 

I happen to agree with the Prophet Joseph Smith when he said: "There is one principle which is eternal; it is the duty of all men to protect their lives and the lives of their household, whenever necessity requires, and no power has a right to forbid it."

[Capitalist_Oinker]

That is what most people I know can't get their heads around, that the right to own guns seems to be more important than stopping such tragedies from happening. 

 

And most people I know can't get their heads around the idea that banning guns WILL stop such tragedies from happening.

 

And speaking of your gun ban after Dunblane, it certainly has been a rousing success hasn't it!

Go here for a report on the efficacy of that ban. http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1223193/Culture-violence-Gun-crime-goes-89-decade.html

[Bini]

Vort, I'm just adding my opinion to the thread, as per the subject title. I have plenty gun toting (Republican :) ) family members to have heard everything there is to say from the other side of the fence. I'm not changing my views, their not changing theirs. That's perfectly fine with me :)

[Capitalist_Oinker]

I'm not interested in debating this topic. I stand firm in not wanting them around...

 

How about swimming pools and spas? Do you like them around?

 

According to the CPSC – "An annual average of 390 pool or spa-related drownings for children younger than 15 occurred from 2007 to 2009; about 75 percent (293) of the reported fatalities involved children younger than five."

According to the CDC (WISQARS Injury Mortality Report, Center for Disease Control, 2007) "there were only 54 accidental gun deaths for children under age 13" in 2007.

 

The numbers have pretty much remained constant since then.

 

The fact is, your kids (anyone's kids) are far safer around firearms than they are around pools and spas. And yet as far as I know, no one is trying to outlaw those.

[Bini]

And firearms in comparison to horses or stoves, etc. is not a good comparison. Rarely, if ever, have I heard criminals turning to livestock or kitchen appliances as their choice weapon in committing a massacre. My opinion, of course :)

[Bini]

I'm not debating. Just voicing my opinion. Make of it what you will from my last two posts. Cheers :)

[Capitalist_Oinker]

Just to get back on the subject of Glocks, I'd like to add my two cents. 

 

I own three of them (models 17, 19 & 22). What's more my email address begins with "glock19" and my geocaching username is "Glockist". 

 

That should tell you how I feel about the subject. 

[Ratbag]

Last year I got my conceal carry  permit. A brother at the church was teaching the class, so I decided to take the class. I had not owned or fired a handgun in about 15 years....maybe more and the only handgun I had previously owned was an inexpensive Llama .45 1911 style semi-auto. 

 

So, I decided I would like to start shooting on a regular basis and maybe even carry sometimes.I purchased a Sig Saur Sp2022 in 9mm. Sig Saur makes excellent handguns, most notably the all stainless P models, like the P226 used by the Navy Seals. I opted the polymer version, which is also the side arm Sig contracted to make for the French Police to be used for 20 years until year 2022....hence the name, SP2022. It is a nice DA/SA hammer fired weapon, with a 15 plus 1 capacity and a decocker.I like it alot, but may trade it for the stainless P226...or keep and buy it anyways.

 

I also purchased a Taurus Tracker in .357 with a 4 inch barrel. Nice looking gun and fun to shoot, but, the cylinder has froze up on it a couple of times after firing and apparently this has been an issue with this gun. It may be traded soon.

 

I also have a Ruger LCR chambered for .357. This is an ultra lite polymer revolver that I CCW in a Fobus holster. Very nice little piece. I may acquire a Kahr CM9 for CCw as well.

 

I am also looking for a striker fired semi and am considering the following in this order:

 

1. H&K VP9

2. Sig P320

3. Glock 17

 

Any thought or suggestions....I know Mirkwood loves Glock :-)

 

I carried a Ruger Security Six before one department I was on went to the P-95.  It sounds like the Taurus Tracker has the same problems I ran into with the Security Six after firing a hundred rounds through it.  The tolerances between the cylinder and forcing cone are so tight that fouling from both lead and powder causes it to jam.  I'm not sure why it doesn't happen in a blued barrel, but I've never run into the problem on anything but stainless.

 

I carried a Glock 17 on another department and I loved it.  Good weapon and the trigger squeeze is consistent.  Personally, I would go with the NY trigger, not the Miami trigger.  The difference in the feel of the NY trigger squeeze is similar to the M-1911a1 and the overall pull weight is more.  If you plan on using it strictly for self-defense, don't go with a competition trigger as it is a hair trigger.

[Latter Days Guy]

And most people I know can't get their heads around the idea that banning guns WILL stop such tragedies from happening.

 

And speaking of your gun ban after Dunblane, it certainly has been a rousing success hasn't it!

Go here for a report on the efficacy of that ban. http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1223193/Culture-violence-Gun-crime-goes-89-decade.html

 

Your actually quoting the Daily Mail to support your argument?  That in itself is a fail on an epic proportion!

Take a look here:

http://www.ons.gov.uk/ons/rel/crime-stats/crime-statistics/focus-on-violent-crime-and-sexual-offences--2012-13/rpt---chapter-3---weapons.html

 

There were 8,135 firearm related incidents in the UK in 2012/13, that includes all types of firearms including replica weapons, air weapons, shotguns, pistols and rifles.

There were 30 fatalities in the UK in 2012/13 involving firearms, how many where there in the same period in the US?

The figures in the report include air weapons, and replica weapons which account for 51% of the firearm related incidents in the UK over the 2012/13 period.  How does that relate to their use in firearms related incident in the US?

Edited February 15, 2015 by Latter Days Guy

[NeuroTypical]

Hi Bini,

 

Just wanted to acknowledge the validity of your opinion.  I'm surrounded by them and carry one on occasion, and I wish I wasn't around them too.

 

Not exactly a practical opinion (which is what I think is what's setting people off), but an opinion nonetheless.

[NeuroTypical]

I see the usual "My country's apple is better than your country's orange!" argument is in full swing.  Y'all do know that's what you're doing, right?  Because the US and UK are so different, with such different cultures and attitudes, not to mention number of guns, it really is apples to oranges...

[Latter Days Guy]

I see the usual "My country's apple is better than your country's orange!" argument is in full swing.  Y'all do know that's what you're doing, right?  Because the US and UK are so different, with such different cultures and attitudes, not to mention number of guns, it really is apples to oranges...

 

Not really, what it does show is that in a country with strongly regulated firearms control there is a small number of firearm related incidents and a low death to incident ratio.  But where there is light firearm regulation and large gun ownership the incidents of gun related incidents  and deaths goes through the roof!  10K plus deaths from firearms a year does seem to be a problem that no one in the US seems to want to sort out, and to me that is very sad.