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The hour I first believed (Amazing Grace) does time change anything?

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Different people are converted at different times to the Gospel...even the lifelong members. Some have argued (even here) that when they were converted that (one example) they did not know Joseph had so many wives. Even though most were sealings, if not most as he never had any offspring from anyone but Emma. Also the Church has admitted that much (if not all) of the Priesthood ban for Black members was cultural and not all doctrinal. All of these things have not affected my testimony, because I know that when converted (long ago) that God knew all these things before the Holy Spirit witnessed to me that Joseph was a Prophet, that the BoM was the word of God, as well as all of our other canonized is scripture.

My question (and I soooo hope I am expressing myself better this time); why do many (on many sites) post threads they have lost their testimonies and have left the Church?

Any "truths" they feel they have found out may be news to them, but not news to God, who knew all when they were converted, or the "hour they first believed". I have not wavered...too many powerful Spiritual experiences, I had. Is it because some are converted and others just convinced, and I do not say that to be critical.

The Church is a perfect organization run by flawed me, as all men are flawed...so I do not fear any admitted mistakes, only a desire to set things right. I love the Prophet Joseph Smith, I am awe with the all that he accomplished despite his flaws, being jailed for trumped up charges and on the run for so much of his life. All of these conditions strengthens my testimony.

Please forgive any errors, I have a broken back and most threads and,posts are done on IPAD in bed or on couch...it is hard to sit in chair at table with desktop, so I can do in "Office Word" and do spell check and sentence structure review.

Comments?

God bless...

Bill Lee

Atlanta, GA

P.S. Not to mention everything is written in "Southern" :)

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Also the Church has admitted that much (if not all) of the Priesthood ban for Black members was cultural and not all doctrinal.

I appreciate your sentiments, Bill. But for the record, the above is incorrect. The Church has "admitted" no such thing. Rather, the Church has clarified that the explanations put forth about WHY the Priesthood ban existed are non-canonical. The Priesthood ban itself remains as it has always been: Something the Church enforced under the authority of God and that required a revelation from God to change.

 

All of these things have not affected my testimony, because I know that when converted (long ago) that God knew all these things before the Holy Spirit witnessed to me that Joseph was a Prophet, that the BoM was the word of God, as well as all of our other canonized is scripture.

I could not agree with you more in this.
 

My question (and I soooo hope I am expressing myself better this time); why do many (on many sites) post threads they have lost their testimonies and have left the Church?

Any "truths" they feel they have found out may be news to them, but not news to God, who knew all when they were converted, or the "hour they first believed". I have not wavered...too many powerful Spiritual experiences, I had. Is it because some are converted and others just convinced, and I do not say that to be critical.

Your reasoning here seems sound to me. Why do people "lose" (or give up) their testimonies? I guess because the cost of keeping the testimony seems higher than the cost of giving it up. Keeping a testimony will at some points mean believing your experiences despite what appears to be contrary evidence. If an honest person has not dug deep to establish a strong testimony, this can sometimes seem like dishonesty. The fact that gospel teachings are almost never popular certainly increases the urge to give up beliefs that seem both inconvenient and improbable.

Edited by Vort

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I appreciate your sentiments, Bill. But for the record, the above is incorrect. The Church has "admitted" no such thing. Rather, the Church has clarified that the explanations put forth about WHY the Priesthood ban existed are non-canonical. The Priesthood ban itself remains as it has always been: Something the Church enforced under the authority of God and that required a revelation from God to change.

 

The admission that there were cultural roots to this policy, or the doctrinal aspect. It is hard for me to post link, via using IPAD and not able or not tech savvy to do so from my bed...tough to do it from laptop. Could you post the statement from the Church concerning the issue. It would be greatly appreciated. :)

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Your reasoning here seems sound to me. Why do people "lose" (or give up) their testimonies? I guess because the cost of keeping the testimony seems higher than the cost of giving it up. Keeping a testimony will at some points mean believing your experiences despite what appears to be contrary evidence. If an honest person has not dug deep to establish a strong testimony, this can sometimes seem like dishonesty. The fact that gospel teachings are almost never popular certainly increases the urge to give up beliefs that seem both inconvenient and improbable.

I agree, I think the Internet in many ways keeps many from digging deep. Everyone what's a quick "instant gratification" type of answer. Not to mention most Internet searches are alway accompanied with anti-Mormon answers that reinforce their information, which makes a simply slop more akin to a "slip in slid" water toy. :)

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I think some people when thinking of Joseph Smith expect or think the man was perfect judging by some conversations I have had with people. I know this....I could not have done what he did, for example...stay in Liberty Jail for 6 months. I love to read all I can about his life. This is another reason why I have become a Nauvoo Junkie over the years.

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The things about Joseph Smith, as per my perception, that people leave the church over have absolutely nothing to do with his imperfections. They are things that he did under guidance and direction from our Heavenly Father that people have problems with.

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I agree, I think the Internet in many ways keeps many from digging deep. Everyone what's a quick "instant gratification" type of answer. Not to mention most Internet searches are alway accompanied with anti-Mormon answers that reinforce their information, which makes a simply slop more akin to a "slip in slid" water toy. :)

One would think that with the boundless information available online and elsewhere these days would encourage people to dig deep. But that doesn't seem to be reality. Easier to glean information from fancy sites, preaching anti posters, and let's not forget the bandwagon of impressive pseudo intellectuals.

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In the church and more so for those that are BIC we are raised in a glass box. Easily shattered by truths available to all but not taught in our meetings.  Others will disagree, but information about the lives and pasts of our leaders are whitewashed to a large extent and how we "think they were" as people ends up not being the reality of who they really were. People are people and when they grow into adulthood and investigate for themselves they find that some things don't match up.

 

I fall into the camp of accepting that our past and current leaders were/are just men. Subject to the same fallibility that all men are. Are they better men than me yes. They have a special relationship with our Heavenly father and his son. They have been chosen, ordained and sustained despite their faults and short comings. JS for all of the mistakes that were made was still able to accomplish something that only he was capable of doing. If we as members can't look past an individuals short comings we are all destined to be disappointed.

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The admission that there were cultural roots to this policy, or the doctrinal aspect. It is hard for me to post link, via using IPAD and not able or not tech savvy to do so from my bed...tough to do it from laptop. Could you post the statement from the Church concerning the issue. It would be greatly appreciated. :)

https://www.lds.org/topics/race-and-the-priesthood?lang=eng

 

I think you should re-read this.  

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Different people are converted at different times to the Gospel...even the lifelong members. Some have argued (even here) that when they were converted that (one example) they did not know Joseph had so many wives. Even though most were sealings, if not most as he never had any offspring from anyone but Emma. Also the Church has admitted that much (if not all) of the Priesthood ban for Black members was cultural and not all doctrinal. All of these things have not affected my testimony, because I know that when converted (long ago) that God knew all these things before the Holy Spirit witnessed to me that Joseph was a Prophet, that the BoM was the word of God, as well as all of our other canonized is scripture.

My question (and I soooo hope I am expressing myself better this time); why do many (on many sites) post threads they have lost their testimonies and have left the Church?

Any "truths" they feel they have found out may be news to them, but not news to God, who knew all when they were converted, or the "hour they first believed". I have not wavered...too many powerful Spiritual experiences, I had. Is it because some are converted and others just convinced, and I do not say that to be critical.

The Church is a perfect organization run by flawed me, as all men are flawed...so I do not fear any admitted mistakes, only a desire to set things right. I love the Prophet Joseph Smith, I am awe with the all that he accomplished despite his flaws, being jailed for trumped up charges and on the run for so much of his life. All of these conditions strengthens my testimony.

Please forgive any errors, I have a broken back and most threads and,posts are done on IPAD in bed or on couch...it is hard to sit in chair at table with desktop, so I can do in "Office Word" and do spell check and sentence structure review.

Comments?

God bless...

Bill Lee

Atlanta, GA

P.S. Not to mention everything is written in "Southern" :)

Luke 8; "12 Those by the way side are they that hear; then cometh the devil, and taketh away the word out of their hearts, lest they should believe and be saved.

 13 They on the rock are they, which, when they hear, receive the word with joy; and these have no root, which for a while believe, and in time of temptation fall away.

 14 And that which fell among thorns are they, which, when they have heard, go forth, and are choked with cares and riches and pleasures of this life, and bring no fruit to perfection."

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Different people are converted at different times to the Gospel...even the lifelong members. Some have argued (even here) that when they were converted that (one example) they did not know Joseph had so many wives. Even though most were sealings, if not most as he never had any offspring from anyone but Emma. Also the Church has admitted that much (if not all) of the Priesthood ban for Black members was cultural and not all doctrinal. All of these things have not affected my testimony, because I know that when converted (long ago) that God knew all these things before the Holy Spirit witnessed to me that Joseph was a Prophet, that the BoM was the word of God, as well as all of our other canonized is scripture.

My question (and I soooo hope I am expressing myself better this time); why do many (on many sites) post threads they have lost their testimonies and have left the Church?

Any "truths" they feel they have found out may be news to them, but not news to God, who knew all when they were converted, or the "hour they first believed". I have not wavered...too many powerful Spiritual experiences, I had. Is it because some are converted and others just convinced, and I do not say that to be critical.

The Church is a perfect organization run by flawed me, as all men are flawed...so I do not fear any admitted mistakes, only a desire to set things right. I love the Prophet Joseph Smith, I am awe with the all that he accomplished despite his flaws, being jailed for trumped up charges and on the run for so much of his life. All of these conditions strengthens my testimony.

Please forgive any errors, I have a broken back and most threads and,posts are done on IPAD in bed or on couch...it is hard to sit in chair at table with desktop, so I can do in "Office Word" and do spell check and sentence structure review.

Comments?

God bless...

Bill Lee

Atlanta, GA

P.S. Not to mention everything is written in "Southern" :)

Not sure if we answered your original question or not. I have often wondered myself why those who have lost their testimonies go to forums and even this one to announce they have. Makes me wonder if they are looking for something or even something to make them change their mind.

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