Transgendered Josh Alcorn suicide -- blame the parents?


prisonchaplain
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The apparent suicide of Josh "Leelah" Alcorn visited my home today.  My 14-year old daughter showed me a People Magazine article that laid the blame squarely at the parents' feet.  The child wanted to be a girl, the parents gave her Christian bigotry, so she kills herself.  Never mind that they did not interview the parents, and that a former editor of People is transgendered.  Thankfully, my child was livid at the media's bias and hatred of Christians.

 

So, I did some internet digging.  Fortunately, the Washington Post published a column about the abuses of "doxing," and urging supporters of trans-teens to be more imaginative and positive, rather than using the net to skewer the parents.

 

Better yet, the Wall Street Journal had a column by a well-regarded psychiatrist who argues that sex change is never really possible, that sex reassignment surgery results in a 20-fold increase in the likelihood of suicide, and that 70-80% of those young adults who experience feelings of transgender ideation eventually have those thoughts resolve (go away).

 

That the secular public is so willing to blame and hate on Christians causes me to double-down on my assertion that atheists are much more efficient and effective war mongers than religious people ever were.

 

http://www.christianexaminer.com/article/leeleah.alcorn.transgender.teen.commits.suicide.blames.parents.exploiters.ignore.science/47960.htm

 

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I found it particularly interesting of the John's Hopkins researcher (McHugh) coming straight out with the (no doubt unpopular) conclusion that transgender is a mental disorder and usually passes. It's amazing that the direction things are going is to pay to help these people continue along in their mentally ill delusions while increasing the risk of suicide 20 fold down the road, instead of recognizing the illness and helping them. Obviously it infringes on someones rights some how to properly diagnose a mental illness... clearly because it is so closely tied to the rest of the homosexual movement it is unacceptable to suggest mental illness lest people confuse all homosexuality with mental illness (which it may well be). So instead of using resources looking for viable solutions to help with the mentally ill, we'll just launch an attack on the grieving family and blame their religious values since that seems to make more sense.??

 

I get it, people are angry and want something to blame. Religion is an easy target, and Christians somewhat notoriously turn the other cheek, so there is little risk picking on them.

 

What bothers me is that everyone is so focused on using such suicides to further an agenda which polarizes religious values and the so-called "new morality"(which is getting old) while offering nothing in the way to actually help those struggling. I mean fine point the finger of blame at religion if that is what is warranted, but how does that help anyone not kill themselves? I'd contend that by making suicide a weapon against traditional religious values that there is a very real possibility more deaths are being encouraged, and that doesn't help anyone... except for giving ammunition in the form of new suicide martyrs to various media campaigns against religious values.

 

I would appreciate it much more if the media focused on where to go to get help if you or someone you love is struggling with these issues. Blaming grieving family members values for their loss is extremely callous and again helps nothing. Why not console the parents by focusing on what they did right (express love, apparently counselling or some form of psycho-therapy was available, etc.) as well as advice for others on what they can do better to hopefully ensure a happier outcome. But then again it is much easier to just blame the Jesus-freaks than offer real solutions, especially if those solutions are counter to the perceptibly true agenda of destroying religious freedoms - which acquiescing to the possibility of mental illness that could be treated certainly does. 

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Further, doesn't matter who thinks who is right and who thinks who is wrong. We lost a beautiful young woman, who has left many behind who did care. What can we all learn from this without having vile debates? So sad. There's a handful of us that knew her story long before all this happened. One friend of mine knew this teen in person. Hope she finds peace wherever she is now.

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. It's amazing that the direction things are going is to pay to help these people continue along in their mentally ill delusions while increasing the risk of suicide 20 fold down the road

I just wanted to note that I am aware that this is only one study that showed this which isn't that strong in isolation. I don't have time to look into how much other research has been done concerning transgender sex-reassignment, but I doubt anyone is looking into it further with our current political climate.  Why risk corroborating findings, when we've worked so hard to get everyone to accept it?

 

 

What bothers me is that everyone is so focused on using such suicides to further an agenda which polarizes religious values and the so-called "new morality"(which is getting old) while offering nothing in the way to actually help those struggling. 

 

Perhaps I really should just edit my first post, but it's been read as is... I realized rereading it this morning how stupid this sentence is. Of course religious values are polarized or in opposition to new values that oppose them, what I hoped to convey is that I see the tragic way that people's suicides and family grief are used as divisive weapons to slander the other camp which isn't helping people be more understanding of differing views, it is bigotry of the worst kind.

Edited by SpiritDragon
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Let me first temper my comments by stating that I do NOT believe transgendered to be mentally ill.  I do however believe this young person may have been and the public discussion intentionally avoids the topic so as not to couple transgender with mental illness.

 

It would be much more productive to the health of troubled youth to take the discussion toward bettering our mental health services than to focus on gender assignment.

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Guest MormonGator

I know a hardcore drug addict who blamed everyone for his problems. His parents, society, "the man", you name it. Detox saved his life because he realized that, while life might be hard and difficult at times, only he is accountable for his actions. 

 

It's tough, but it's a reality we have to learn in order to progress in the world. You can blame anyone you want, but in the end it comes down to you. 

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I don't know that any responsible parents in their right minds would or ought to allow a teenager to make any sort of life-changing decisions, knowing what we do about lack of full brain development in teen years. 

 

Yes, suicide is always tragic. It's terribly said that this young boy ended his life. But it's not gossip for us as a group (Christians) to refuse to take responsibility for it. Especially with science on our side. 

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Further, doesn't matter who thinks who is right and who thinks who is wrong. We lost a beautiful young woman, who has left many behind who did care. What can we all learn from this without having vile debates? So sad. There's a handful of us that knew her story long before all this happened. One friend of mine knew this teen in person. Hope she finds peace wherever she is now.

 

The sad reality is that a faction of the LBGT community is ginned up for a war on Christianity.  A major publication (granted, meant for entertainment--but still influential--People Magazine) all but endorsed the one-sided slam that the parents virtually killed their child by their alleged hate.  Then I do 20 minutes of digging and find all sorts of new angles.  Even LBGT-allies like the Washington Post are getting nervous at the vitriol on the net.  Finally, the Christian Examiner article was very cautious, simply mentioning that there were obvious struggles that went beyond the whole transgender issue.  There was no attempt to discredit or harm the reputation of the dead teen.

 

If we don't discuss these matters, the religion-haters will be more than happy to monopolize.  We need not shy away.  However, we should carry ourselves, "innocent as lambs, but wise as serpents."  Or, to borrow another famous quote and twist it:  Speak softly, but carry well-grounded scientific research on our side.

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What can we all learn from this without having vile debates?

What we can learn is that there is a culture out there teaching kids that if they can't wear what they want and have sexual relationships with whomever they want before their eighteenth birthday, life is not worth living. And people are dying because of that culture. The righteous indignation and accusations of culpability in Josh/Leelah's death are not inappropriate. They're just misdirected.

As for Josh himself: I feel bad for the kid, but let's have no illusions. From what I gather, he left a suicide note--not for his parents--but for his adoring Reddit audience--laying the blame squarely at his parents' feet. He knew ruddy well what the LGBT movement would do with his death, and the suffering it would put his parents through (both in their mourning for him, and their pain at having the dogs of political correctness sicced upon them). Josh's flair for the dramatic does not sanctify his position in what was essentially an escalation of a family feud. What he did was first and foremost a bitter, vindictive, and spiteful act of revenge; and in his current state he is more than likely experiencing a dawning sense of horror at what he has done.

Josh, the individual, deserves compassion; both for his humanity and for his particularly trying circumstances. Josh's suicide, the act, deserves condemnation and opprobrium for the malicious, infantile stunt that it was; not veneration, a prima facie vindication of the selfish motives that led to it, and an affirmation of the political forces that implicitly (or, perhaps, explicitly) encouraged him to do what he did.

Barring knowing and intentional cruelty towards/mockery of the kid by his parents, this situation strikes me as very like the situation in Shel Silverstein's Little Abigail and the Beautiful Pony. From the standpoint of LDS theology, Josh may well have been a female spirit trapped, through a trick of genetics in this fallen world, inside a body with male genitalia. But it's largely irrelevant. What is relevant is that for Josh, adulthood and legal emancipation were eleven months away. As far as I know, all he had to do was to wait; keep wearing the clothes and answering to the name he'd used for seventeen years; and otherwise abide by the rules of the house. Who told him that death was preferable to eleven months of such a regimen? I daresay, not his parents.

It is our current culture of instant gratification and being "authentic" at all costs (particularly, but certainly not exclusively, in sexual matters) that is primarily responsible for Josh Alcorn's death. I condemn that culture; and I execrate the individuals who exploit Josh's death in furtherance thereof.

Edited by Just_A_Guy
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The apparent suicide of Josh "Leelah" Alcorn visited my home today.  My 14-year old daughter showed me a People Magazine article that laid the blame squarely at the parents' feet.  The child wanted to be a girl, the parents gave her Christian bigotry, so she kills herself.  Never mind that they did not interview the parents, and that a former editor of People is transgendered.  Thankfully, my child was livid at the media's bias and hatred of Christians.

 

So, I did some internet digging.  Fortunately, the Washington Post published a column about the abuses of "doxing," and urging supporters of trans-teens to be more imaginative and positive, rather than using the net to skewer the parents.

 

Better yet, the Wall Street Journal had a column by a well-regarded psychiatrist who argues that sex change is never really possible, that sex reassignment surgery results in a 20-fold increase in the likelihood of suicide, and that 70-80% of those young adults who experience feelings of transgender ideation eventually have those thoughts resolve (go away).

 

That the secular public is so willing to blame and hate on Christians causes me to double-down on my assertion that atheists are much more efficient and effective war mongers than religious people ever were.

 

http://www.christianexaminer.com/article/leeleah.alcorn.transgender.teen.commits.suicide.blames.parents.exploiters.ignore.science/47960.htm

in general if its something you want its from you, but if it ends up being negative in someway its the fault of some external source.....

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I participate in a tiny depression support group on facebook full of random people.  Just about everyone in there identifies themselves in terms other than male or female, other than straight or gay.  You can't swing a dead cat in there without hitting someone suicidal or harming themselves.  

 

The statistician in me realizes that a self-selecting group of anecdotes doesn't prove squat.  The human in me wonders if there is such a thing as a healthy, stable, and happy person who says their gender is androgynous, bi-gendered, pansexual, demisexual, or asexual.  I've also heard "fluid", and one lady who claimed to be "gender-queer, biologically female, leaning towards male-identifying individuals".

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I was hoping this didn't come up here.

I knew her, only via online friendship, but I hate all the gossip and speculation on her. It is a tragedy!

 

 

Further, doesn't matter who thinks who is right and who thinks who is wrong. We lost a beautiful young woman, who has left many behind who did care. What can we all learn from this without having vile debates? So sad. There's a handful of us that knew her story long before all this happened. One friend of mine knew this teen in person. Hope she finds peace wherever she is now.

 

I'm not sure what you mean with these posts.

 

Are you saying that PC and the rest of the people on this thread are gossiping about Josh Alcorn and having vile debates?  Or are you just saying that you don't like people talking about someone who you know personally but it's okay to talk about someone you don't know personally?

 

This thread could be productive if you know the person personally because you have "inside knowledge" of the situation that can clarify some of the assumptions.

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[T]o borrow another famous quote and twist it:  Speak softly, but carry well-grounded scientific research on our side.

 

I agree with your sentiment 100%, but sadly, facts are irrelevant to those who think emotionally, or who are pushing an agenda that doesn't fit well with those facts.  Confirmation Bias is a real problem.

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The apparent suicide of Josh "Leelah" Alcorn visited my home today.  My 14-year old daughter showed me a People Magazine article that laid the blame squarely at the parents' feet.  The child wanted to be a girl, the parents gave her Christian bigotry, so she kills herself.

 

Is it really bigotry?  If your child came to you and told you she was sure the Lord really wanted her to be a chipmunk, would it be irrational of you to point out that He knew what He was doing when she was being made?

 

All the wanting, whining and confusion in the world won't change the simple fact of whether He gave you a Y chromosome or not, any more than it will change whether you're human or a small rodent.

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Unfortunately, I agree that the parents did something wrong . . . they raised a spoiled brat.  From wikipedia

 

"They removed her from Kings High School, and enrolled her as an eleventh grader at an online school, Ohio Virtual Academy.[14] According to Alcorn, her parents cut her off from the outside world for five months as they denied her access to social media and many forms of communication. She described this as a significant contributing factor towards her suicide. At the end of the school year, they returned her phone to her and allowed her to regain contact with her friends, although according to Alcorn, by this time her relationship with many of them had become strained and she continued to feel isolated.[9]"

 

Unfortunately, they probably didn't realize it until it was way too late. If you don't think that a kid who is 14-16 who is going onto Reddit hasn't seen some really bad stuff on the internet, think again.  Many well-meaning parents give kids everything they want when they are little so they never learn the meaning of the word N-O. Then when the kid starts getting into something that could really cause harm the parents finally stand firm and say NO. B/c the kid has always heard yes, now he thinks his parents are abusive, mean, don't love him, etc.

 

This child obviously had issues, but just the fact that he was going to Reddit looking for answers means the parents screwed up way before it came to this issue.

 

I also hate this idea that to love unconditionally means support . . . no it sure doesn't.  Love unconditionally means that as a parent more than any other person on this planet, I want what is in your best interest.  Sometimes that best interest means I have to discipline . .. b/c I love my child. I'm sure they didn't want him to commit suicide. Yet how many of those individuals on Reddit truly honestly wanted what was best for him.  Probably not one.

 

A very tragic incident, where truly the blame lies all around.  For the suicide, only he can take responsibility. But from social media encouraging individuals to do whatever makes them feel good, to friends who encourage irresponsible behavior to parents.

 

Personally, I think there are so many factors that are involved; when children are born they have no concept of sexuality. Their concept is formed through social experiences and biological development; I'm not sure that biological development plays 100% into whether someone is normal or not; I think social development and experiences has a huge role to play in sexual development. Take a 10-year old stick hard-core porn in front of them and it wouldn't surprise me if they ended a little messed up. 

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Most of us take the command to honor our parents as gospel.  We also agree about "love the sinner, hate the sin."  So, we see a teen identify as trans-gendered, who's dying act is to publish to the internet his struggles with his parents, and we can be quick to pounce.  Then, of course, most of us have strong feelings about suicide itself--especially in how it hurts family.   I'm not so sure we need to blame the decceased or the parents.  We know tidbits, but not the context.  In that BINI was right.  My main goal was to blame the mainstream media (especially PEOPLE magazine), and to chastise those internet punks who believe it is the self-righteous duty to heap scorn on the mourning parents.  No matter how right we may be, it is probably best not to dump on the deceased child either.  For, in the end, he was certainly that--a child.  Old enough to be accountable, but probably not well equipped to face the impulses that ensnared him.

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but probably not well equipped to face the impulses that ensnared him.

 

That phrase summarizes the lesson to be had from this incident.

 

We, as parents, need to realize that we can't just remove our children from danger and let that be the end of it... rather, we need to equip them to face and triumph over the danger.

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We, as parents, need to realize that we can't just remove our children from danger and let that be the end of it... rather, we need to equip them to face and triumph over the danger.

 

To be clear, I am presuming you mean "as well as", rather than "instead of" ??

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To be clear, I am presuming you mean "as well as", rather than "instead of" ??

Neither.

Let me restate ... You can't just remove the kid from danger and let that be the end of it... You still have to teach him what the danger is and how to deal with it.

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Neither.

Let me restate ... You can't just remove the kid from danger and let that be the end of it... You still have to teach him what the danger is and how to deal with it.

Wait...How does that not mean "as well as"?

You must remove them from danger as well as teaching them what danger is and how to deal with it.

I mean you used the term "still", but it's functionally the same meaning.

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Wait...How does that not mean "as well as"?

You must remove them from danger as well as teaching them what danger is and how to deal with it.

I mean you used the term "still", but it's functionally the same meaning.

I don't understand what you're saying. You sound like you're treating it as two separate events. I'm talking about it as one event - the removal and the teaching happening in one event.

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I don't understand what you're saying. You sound like you're treating it as two separate events. I'm talking about it as one event - the removal and the teaching happening in one event.

 

I was just trying to understand what you were saying, which I do now. You may not understand that I'm saying the exact same thing as you, but I am. So...we're good.

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