I honestly do not know what to do any more....


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Thank you for the advice, it helps and does get my mind working on some things I can do.

 

She DOES has a small history. She caught her father in immoral actions.

 

Ok, a few more questions -

 

1. She did not reveal this severe of behavior until AFTER we married. It surprised me at first, and so I kinda just changed myself so she would not get angry most of every day like she was the first few weeks/months of being married. She would get angry, and I prefer to have peace so I would just say "fine, just so we wont fight, here ya go". So, I know that I was wrong to just hand her control. But, how do I reverse the damage that has been now so extensivly done?

 

Draw a line on the ground - literally.  Then while saying to yourself, "Today, I'm going to start making rational decisions." step over the line.  Now you can let the past go and start making rational decisions from then on.

 

 

 

2, How do i keep peace? I hate arguing. And how angry she gets so quickly. It can roin days and days. How do I tell her. "No, that is not something I am going to do?" And keep her from threatening diverce less than 30 seconds later casue "I dont care about her or her feelings."

 

 
Argument requires TWO participants.  If you don't participate in the argument, then there won't be one.
 
My husband is the expert in this.  He is a very straight up person.  He loves football.  Obsessively.  I hate football.  So, I was in the high-risk delivery room after giving birth to my son via c-section and he was in the room with me watching football.  I yelled at him - "you don't care that I just gave birth, you don't care that you have a son, you don't care that I ALMOST DIED, you just care about football"!  He looks at me, says, "I love you and I love our son very very much", and continued to watch football.  I continued to yell at him of course and said some mean things but he finished the game and then he said, "Now what can I do for you?  What do you need?".
 
Of course I know he loves me and our son.  And of course he knows that I know that.  So, he let me stew on it by myself because he did not see anything wrong with him watching football in the room.  Of course, until today I still think he was wrong, but... that was 13 years ago and I've forgiven him that very same day... water under the bridge.
 

 

 

3. She has reasons for everything. A lot of them do not make sense. But mixed with me wanting the fight to just and and me not being very good at arguing in the firstr place, I AM starting to get confused as to what is appropriate and what is not. I find myself just straight up ignoring even my little sisters just so my wife does not find a reason to get angry. I know there are prayer and recources available to figure this out. But, how do I share my findings with her again- without equaling a marriage scarring fight?

 

Thanks for your help.

 

 

You don't.  Just start doing rational things over and over with your love for her all displayed in full and she'll start to trust that nothing bad is going to happen.

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I am just more faithful than most other people, so other people will tell you I am wrong

 

Yikes. This smacks of narcissistic personality or at least a borderline personality disorder (look them up, you'll be surprised).  That makes an uphill battle, even if she's willing to acknowledge she has a problem and get help for it. I'm sorry you're in this situation. Based on what I've seen of my aforementioned family member's life, unless she IS willing to take responsibility and get help and work really really hard at getting better, I'd get out while the getting is good. 

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None of your actions as you have described them strike me as something to legitimatly be concerned about.  She seems to have some deep insecurities.  As others have suggested, it may be related to past sexual abuse you don't know about.  Very often those who are abused as children have a hard time distinguishing between normal affection and sexual exploitation, and it is very common for somebody abused as a child to feel shame as an adult even to the point of hiding that part of their history from their spouse. 

 

It could also  be that she was taught some unrealisic ideas or has some unmet need.  Do you know what kind of things make her feel loved and are you doing them?  Are you doing anything that may make her feel insecure?  If you have a history of porn usage, even if it is something you are over with, it may fuel distrust in her.

 

I understand not wanting confrontation, but sometimes us guys can get so afraid of imposing unrighteous dominon that we go too far the other way and fail to provide the leadership we should.  Sometimes there has to be hard discussions to resolve important issues.  You just have to 'fight fair' even if they don't.  No personal attacks, not dragging in other issues, no letting yourself get angry, no blame shifting.  You are going to have to talk this out with her in some way, privatly together or with the bishop or with a counselor.  It won't fix itself.

 

From the sound of what you said you are basicly taking orders from her that you don't agree with without even objecting and that is something that will in time harm your relationship with her.  You have to let her know your feelings and you have to have the courage say when you find a demand of hers to be unreasonalbe and unacceptable.  If you don't show you reject her premise that it is insest or whatever then you are validating it in her eyes.  Communication in marriage is not about the ability to accuratly say something as much as it is about having the courage to say something when you know they won't want to hear.

 

I can also tell you are eager to become a father.  That is great, but I really think you should get this issue resolved or at least on the path to being resolved before you start having kids.

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I am not a mental health expert; nor do I play one on TV.  But this obsession with you being a cheater/pedophile sounds deeper than merely your wife's having been damaged by trauma.  This sounds like some sort of psychosis--clinical paranoia or Munchausen's or something like that.  (Again--I'm not qualified to make these kinds of diagnoses; but professionally I've seen them come up in divorce cases and child welfare court cases.)  I'm not sure mere marriage counseling is going to cut it.

 

My cynical prediction is this--if she's already talking about divorce, and already accusing you of being a pedophile--at some point, be it six months, six years, or twenty-six years, the divorce will happen.  And if you have kids at that time, she will accuse you of molesting them during the course of the legal wranglings.  She may not be malicious or evil; but it's just how her brain works.  Unless whatever illness is in play doesn't get fully resolved, this kind of behavior is simply who she is, and it's what she does.

 

By all means, do some counseling and try to figure out what you're dealing with from a mental health point of view.  If it looks manageable, stick it out.  But do NOT make babies with her (at least, not now), and do NOT trust her assurances that she's still using contraception.  And while I know some here will strongly disagree with me--don't be afraid to pull the plug on your marriage.  This woman, if she doesn't fully and permanently recover from whatever's going on in her brain, can make your life hell on earth.  She can get you jailed.  She's not worth it.

Edited by Just_A_Guy
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I don't remember ever counseling anyone on this list to divorce. I think it's generally irresponsible if not downright evil to give such counsel in most situations.

 

But if she is accusing you of pedophilia and child molestation, you could find yourself rotting in prison for decades. It's like a woman who falsely accuses men of rape (of which women there are plenty). The very best thing you can do is to get far away from such a woman and warn everyone you know and love to avoid her.

 

I am not saying that you should divorce her. I have no insight into that issue. But I think you should very, very seriously consider it. If you were my brother, or my son, I would probably be encouraging you to divorce her as soon as legally possible (and perhaps that means shame on me -- if so, so be it). Assuming, of course, that all that you have said is accurate.

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This is truly incredible. I'm so sorry you have to have these concerns so early in your marriage. I don't know her story, but it sounds like she trapped you up in her issues that maybe she didn't even realize she had.

 

You need to assert, now. You need to sit her down and inform her how hurtful and unfair these accusations are. You need to be stern. Not aggravated or aggressive, but stern. Express your love for her, but inform her that she can't define you by some very disturbing terms for being a normal human being.

 

My guess is that because of what she experienced when she was young, she has a harder time being considerate to a husband. If you dated her a while and she never displayed this behavior, she might be in great fear for your marriage.You need to stop this thought process of hers, now. You need to tell her she needs to see a councilor, and together see a marriage councilor. You need to tell her she needs to trust you, as you trust her, and it's important to your marriage and that union is worth fighting for and adjusting to. I'm sure that she does truly love you, you seem like a very rational guy and able to put a lot of effort forward. That's a great trait to have!

 

Be ready for a battle, but not in the literal sense. There doesn't have to be a fight against each other, just against the negativity and fear you both have. You guys need to find a way to work together, not her as a dominant or vice versa. There can still be good here, but if she isn't willing to work with you and grow as a couple, then is it really worth the time? Can't be a one sided effort

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I've been thinking over this a few days. I have no real new advice to give, just affirmation of other advice.

Act normal. Restore your relationships with your mother and cousins. Smile in Primary. Do not give into her demands to act abnormal. You are doing her no favors by confirming her world view.

Seek counseling. It'll be worth the money no matter what happens.

And yes, don't take divorce off the table. It may be what is best for you and her.

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First, I'm sorry you're experiencing this.  You've gotten some great feedback already so will just add:

 

- It sounds like she needs to be reminded of the *commandment* to not bear false witness.

- You don't need to stay in a toxic environment but you also don't need to jump to divorce.  Try a separation to give her a chance to get the help she obviously needs.

- Regarding finances for counseling, although the bishop is in a position to help, your family is your first resource (and the bishop should tell you that).

 

I hope things get resolved.  All the best.

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Have you talked to the Lord?

 

Family can be a great help... But only the Lord can excuse you from your covenants, and he can help you keep them as well.

 

Standing up for yourself is good.  Being willing to work to save your marriage is good.  Balancing the two is hard.

 

Good luck

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Have you talked to the Lord?

 

Yes, I have prayed much. I am fasting currently. And when my wife goes to Tennessee for the week starting on wednesday. I am going to spend a lot of time in the celestial room. Part of my issue is when I pray all I feel is fear. I am afraid of getting a divorce. I am also scared of staying married. Yesterday was a little....traumatizing.

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You won't hear me saying this very often on this boards . . . in fact it might be the first time. But from what you have described it has certainly entered the realm of abuse, more specifically physical abuse (and emotional . . .seriously what is up with all the pedophile comments, makes absolutely 0 sense and me I wouldn't tolerate that at all); divorce at this point is certainly an option.

 

Dissecting what happened, she is a control freak and you stood up for yourself (congratulations!!) and she flipped out and threw an adult tantrum because she couldn't control you. Word to the wise: when you are raising children, ensure you discipline them effectively about tantrums, b/c if you don't correct it when they are young, they will throw tantrums (like your wife) when they are adults.  She is probably a spoiled brat who threw temper tantrums with her parents and they acquiesced to her every desire just so they wouldn't have to deal with it.

 

I will also say, unless you are 100% serious about it (which sounds like you are), do not mention divorce, i.e. do not use the threat of divorce as a way to gain leverage in your marriage. I would probably first go with using the term separation.

 

But clear lines in the sand must be drawn, physical violence and destruction of property are completely uncalled for and not cool.

 

If you are committed to being married, I would suggest well

 

1) yeah getting a counselor . .. again probably one of the few times I have said that as I believe most marriage problems can be worked out without a counselor by self-education . . . books, etc. In fact, b/c she is violent her going would be one of the stipulations for continuing the marriage.

 

2) Some consequence for yesterdays tirade . . . a weeks worth of separation something, if she has a job pay you double for the destruction she caused.

 

3) Clear understanding that it will not happen again and a consequence associated with it (separation, divorce, etc).

 

4) Again I don't normally say this, but if divorce is on the table-don't have kids.

 

I will say, one incident of physical violence, doesn't necessarily mean that the relationship will always be abusive.  Once my wife hit me on the head with a bowl . . . I did do something really dumb . . . but that was years again and nothing remotely like it has ever happened. 

 

But throwing dishes, slapping, kicking in the same day. . .that's a little more than getting hit on the head with a bowl.

 

From what you've described IMO, you certainly have justification for a divorce. My suggestions continue fasting, go to the temple, pray and ask God to reveal His will.  Be humble and submissive to Him and ask for the path that will lead to greatest happiness in your life.  He will help you.

 

While I do not know what you are going through, I can only imagine it is extremely traumatic but there is one who does know, Jesus Christ. 

Edited by yjacket
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Yes, I have prayed much. I am fasting currently. And when my wife goes to Tennessee for the week starting on wednesday. I am going to spend a lot of time in the celestial room. Part of my issue is when I pray all I feel is fear. I am afraid of getting a divorce. I am also scared of staying married. Yesterday was a little....traumatizing.

 

Fear is the antithesis of the spirit. An awesome talk that I love:

 

https://www.lds.org/general-conference/2004/10/peace-of-conscience-and-peace-of-mind?lang=eng

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Eli.Will, rewrite your post#35--but reverse your wife's gender.  Then, try to step outside of the situation and re-read your post as if it were written by a woman you don't know.  I think your situation will become a lot more clear.

 

This is textbook domestic violence; and it doesn't matter that the perpetrator is a female.

Edited by Just_A_Guy
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I'm going to sound harsh. Your expectations from this forum are too high. You've taken this a bit too far publicly. You shouldn't be seeking resolution here. A little advice was fine, but what you are doing pouring all this out is an example of immaturity. That and some of what you post shows you to be immature. 

 

I could list yards of advice, but given my own comments/views above, I don't think this is the place for such an education. We are not professionals and you guys need professional help. 

 

Maybe I could have bit my tongue and maybe a forum moderator will give me a lashing, but if this is an advice forum, that's my advice.

Edited by sxfritz
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By this you account, I as think handled it as well as anything. This week of separation will be good.

I would give counseling a shot. In fact, that should be a requirement before any decision on the marriage is made. That plus a mental health evaluation for your wife. Those should be the terms.

I also think we need anatess insight.

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I'm going to sound harsh. Your expectations from this forum are too high. You've taken this a bit too far publicly. You shouldn't be seeking resolution here. A little advice was fine, but what you are doing pouring all this out is an example of immaturity. That and some of what you post shows you to be immature. 

 

I could list yards of advice, but I given my own comments/views above, I don't think this is the place for such an education. We are not professionals and you guys need professional help. 

I agree with you fully. I am immature, that is why I have gone on here to gain just a little advice from people who are more mature than me in many ways, so that I can make a better decision as far as certain things go.

 

We do need professional help. I agree, that is why I am doing so. What I did not kow about yesterdays altercation, was if it was truly as bad as I felt it to be.

 

Also, I feel confused, and hurt. I felt I needed some quick advise from those outside the situation. I know a therapist is best, however, I do not have that access currently. So, people that are of my faith, who dont know me, who are outside the situation, who I can keep myself and my wife anonymouse from. Seems like a good source to turn to when I honestly cannot make sense of my own mind.

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Yes, I have prayed much. I am fasting currently. And when my wife goes to Tennessee for the week starting on wednesday. I am going to spend a lot of time in the celestial room. Part of my issue is when I pray all I feel is fear. I am afraid of getting a divorce. I am also scared of staying married. Yesterday was a little....traumatizing.

 

Ok...  I have no advice to offer if you choose divorce.  From what you have said I would not blame you if you chose it, but it is totally out of my realm of experience to point you in that direction except to say get a good lawyer.

 

If you choose to stay I have some advice.   Choose to love your wife.  I don't mean this in the Hollywood sense of falling in Love or out of Love.  I mean this in the Christ-like sense in being willing to sacrifice to help her get better.  This means loving her as a person while standing strong against unacceptable behavior.

 

You are two different people it is expected that you will have disagreements and arguments.  That is not a problem.  The problem is how those disagreements and arguments are being expressed.  Such expression is a choice.  She needs to learn to choose better (and probably so do you).  At this level professional help is wise.  But know that at this point it is probably habit for your wife to respond in this manner.  And habits can be very hard to break.  Even if she is totally sincere the chance of a relapse is pretty high.  Thus prepare yourself for hard days ahead, sacrifice will be required of you.

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If you choose to stay I have some advice.   Choose to love your wife.  I don't mean this in the Hollywood sense of falling in Love or out of Love.  I mean this in the Christ-like sense in being willing to sacrifice to help her get better.  This means loving her as a person while standing strong against unacceptable behavior.

 

 

I think there is where I can most markedly improve. Standing up for myself has been a thing I historically would hesitate to do. Thankyou for you advice. Continuing to fight this out. Me and her vs. the problem. Is the best choice.

 

Maybe I could have bit my tongue and maybe a forum moderator will give me a lashing, but if this is an advice forum, that's my advice.

I dont see anything wrong with what you said. I appreciate your opinion over-all.

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I agree with you fully. I am immature, that is why I have gone on here to gain just a little advice from people who are more mature than me in many ways, so that I can make a better decision as far as certain things go.

 

We do need professional help. I agree, that is why I am doing so. What I did not kow about yesterdays altercation, was if it was truly as bad as I felt it to be.

 

Also, I feel confused, and hurt. I felt I needed some quick advise from those outside the situation. I know a therapist is best, however, I do not have that access currently. So, people that are of my faith, who dont know me, who are outside the situation, who I can keep myself and my wife anonymouse from. Seems like a good source to turn to when I honestly cannot make sense of my own mind.

Thank you. That was a very mature response and I mean it sincerely. I don't intend any condescension. 

 

In the Forum, you will find advice all over the board. I was afraid you were looking for someone to tell you what you want to hear. Many people post and then disappear and I believe they probably looked for some validation. I think you will find two camps and neither may be right for your circumstance. One camp will tell you to cut and run and the other will tell you to work it out. I am a work-it-out person. That doesn't mean the relationship can't be a divorce it means to take it as far as you can in all good faith and effort.

 

I've been married 30 years. I was 23 when I married and not as mature as I wished I was. One lesson I have learned in life is marriage and children IS for the young. We can't wait to grow up to get married and have kids. It is the marriage and kids that raise us up. I look at struggling young families and think "those poor kids", when in fact that is what life is and we were all "those poor kids" at some time.  

 

I have at times said that those people married 30+ years know a lot about divorce. We understand it. Many times we wanted to walk and could have. We didn't. Most minor issues resolve in about three days (the music argument should have created a cold-shoulder for three days and not blown out of proportion). Some might last three months.

 

We only hear one side in the Forum and it isn't a place where couples come (together) to get advice, so all of us need to keep in mind we only hear your side. You appear honest. My opinion is to love and serve your wife.  You demonstrated some rather severe behavior on her part, but I don't think it calls for anything more than counseling you have already consented to. Make sure you never strike her back. Show tolerance and love and continue to recognize your own shortfalls.

 

Best wishes 

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I've been married 30 years. I was 23 when I married and not as mature as I wished I was. One lesson I have learned in life is marriage and children IS for the young. We can't wait to grow up to get married and have kids. It is the marriage and kids that raise us up. I look at struggling young families and think "those poor kids", when in fact that is what life is and we were all "those poor kids" at some time.  

 

I have at times said that those people married 30+ years know a lot about divorce. We understand it. Many times we wanted to walk and could have. We didn't. Most minor issues resolve in about three days (the music argument should have created a cold-shoulder for three days and not blown out of proportion). Some might last three months.

 

We only hear one side in the Forum and it isn't a place where couples come (together) to get advice, so all of us need to keep in mind we only hear your side. You appear honest. My opinion is to love and serve your wife.  You demonstrated some rather severe behavior on her part, but I don't think it calls for anything more than counseling you have already consented to. Make sure you never strike her back. Show tolerance and love and continue to recognize your own shortfalls.

 

Best wishes 

 

sxfritz . . . awesome a + 1000. I'm not at 30 years (about 1/3rd) but I hope in 20 I can have some of that wisdom. You are right about marriage and kids for the young.  We really mature and grow up raising kids and having a family. At first we are children trying to be adults raising children and eventually we figure it out and become adults trying to raise kids to be adults.

 

We never know or understand the other side. And I have personally learned more about my Savior, more about the Atonement by truly trying to understand my wife.  Without my wife, I would never have come to know my Savior like I know Him know.  I really love the book "Getting the Love you Want".  For me, it really opened my eyes that all of us have gaping holes in our lives from our childhood that because we are a child, we can't fully comprehend the situation.  Bullying at school, abuse, physical, sexual, emotional, etc.  An unkind word, misinterpreted.

 

We are all broken individuals.  Broken from simply living life.  We act in a ways simply because we don't have the tools to act any other way, that was the way we were trained.  This doesn't abrogate us from responsibility in this life . . . far from it-we have responsibility to recognize our faults and to seek ways to correct them; but that we can understand why we have the faults we do. We can then allow the Atonement to come into our lives and to help perfect us.

 

No one knows this situation fully and it could be that he is extremely passive-aggressive and they form a symbiosis of immaturity and in generating this cycle. And if that is the case, if he did divorce-he would simply find another relationship that resembles this one. Abuse and adultery may justify divorce, but it doesn't necessarily mean divorce has to happen.

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@sxfritz

 

One thing I will say is honestly - I do not know what I wanted to hear. All my life divorce has been a no option thing for me. Ofcourse. That - in my immaturity - was probably more a dream than anything. When the thoughts of divorce entered my mind I was somewhat terrified and lost. I truly did want to know what my peers in my faith would do, or think of the situation. I have not talked to anybody about all of this until here.

 

I will stick it out. Scripture like  "Forgive 70 x 7" and ideas like "God will never give you more than you can handle" as I continue to ponder on the issues and the advice given here.

 

But be comforted, I am not going to just disapear after having my thoughts blasted onto the internet. I will stick around and comment on other situations. Especially as I go through therapy. Some advice there may be useful.

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So......I think I know what most of you are going to say after this next story about yesterday. But I would like to know your opinions nonetheless....

 

 

Eli, you are in an abusive relationship.  You need to leave and *never* go back.

 

That is the end of my opinion.  The remainder of this post are statistical and legal facts.

 

Here is the police and legal protocol for the minute a spouse throws *any* object at another.  The incident is now categorized as domestic violence and/or abuse and the offending spouse is arrested, handcuffed, and placed in the back of a police car to spend a mandated night in jail.  Persecution charges are automatically levied because it is a crime against society, not just you.   The battered spouse is called by the legal team for this (I don’t remember the name now).  The team offers the spouse legal advice, protective custody, medical assistance, counseling, shelter, a restraining order, and access to anything that person might need, including divorce lawyers.  After the night in jail, the offending spouse can post bail (several thousand dollars), and go home, to appear in court a week later.  The lightest plea bargain is repeated court-mandated counseling.  All of this goes on both spouse’s records and secondary offenses by the perpetrator are treated much less lightly.

 

Those are the facts.  And what would be initiated before you left the bedroom that morning.  It also does not include the isolation, destruction of priority (some it non-replaceable), slander (the pedophile comments), and general emotional abuse.  All of it is general neutral terms because spousal abuse happens both ways.

 

More facts: on average an abused spouse goes back to the abuser 6 times before permanently leaving.  The probability of an abusive spouse keeping to their promise of “it’ll never happen again” is <5%.  

 

Children: children in a home with domestic violence/abuse are referred to Children Protective Custody.  CPS’s actions are not more nuanced so I can’t tell you what they would automatically do, but the possibilities include placing the children in foster care.   A child raised in an abusive home has a 1 in 3 chance of becoming an abuser themselves.

 

Back to opinions –

 

Eli, if one of your sisters or female cousins was in this situation, what would you tell them?

Edited by Jane_Doe
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