I honestly do not know what to do any more....


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No one knows this situation fully and it could be that he is extremely passive-aggressive and they form a symbiosis of immaturity and in generating this cycle. And if that is the case, if he did divorce-he would simply find another relationship that resembles this one. Abuse and adultery may justify divorce, but it doesn't necessarily mean divorce has to happen.

 

I agree with you as well. As I stated previously. I am not perfect in this. I get angry. Sure. I need therapy as much as she does, just in different ways for different reasons. What my concerns were, was how serious these issues were. Many times my wife and I have passed our fights off as "normal for newlyweds" or her worries as "just something she needs to get over" I wondered if things like this were normal in the overall lds populace. I got my answer - its not and we need help.

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So, I would like your opinions on if I have made the right decision. And from this point, if you would suggest anything with or beyond the counseling?

 

She does a DV class.  In Utah, those courses will run about 12-16 weeks, depending on the provider.  She doesn't come home until she's done at least three weeks.  If she squawks, or tries to get her family to gang up on you again--show 'em your Kindle.

 

Also:  She gets a full neuropsychological evaluation.  She is not well.  If she will not admit that she is not well, then you're done.  The results on that are probably going to take a good 30-60 days from the date of the evaluation; so get cracking on it.

 

And--no sex.  Period.  Because I guarantee you, right now she's thinking that the best way to suck you back in, is to announce that she's pregnant.

Edited by Just_A_Guy
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Couple of other random thoughts---

 

I'm not saying that you're perfect Eli.  It is quite possible for both spouses in a relationship to be abusive (I'm not saying you are, but I don't know).  Whether or not you are doesn't change any of the facts.

 

Think about the covenants you made when you married this girl in the temple.  Were any of the covenants to her?  Or were they to God?  Has she kept her covenants to God?

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I agree with you as well. As I stated previously. I am not perfect in this. I get angry. Sure. I need therapy as much as she does, just in different ways for different reasons. What my concerns were, was how serious these issues were. Many times my wife and I have passed our fights off as "normal for newlyweds" or her worries as "just something she needs to get over" I wondered if things like this were normal in the overall lds populace. I got my answer - its not and we need help.

 

Well, arguments (even heated ones) are normal (not that they are appropriate).  Immature angry outbursts, while not appropriate and probably not terribly normal aren't too concerning (as long as it gets fixed). 

 

Pedophile comments are not normal. Something is 100% up there, either she was abused as a child or there is something you're not telling us (at this point seems unlikely as you seem pretty honest).

 

Full up destruction of property, kicking, slapping are not normal. 

 

Recognition of a problem is the first step to getting it straightened out.  She crossed the Rubicon with what happened on Sunday (which can be a good thing-conflict is growth waiting to happen). It's time to get serious about figuring out what is going on and fixing it; if she doesn't recognize that well then it's going to be real hard.

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Recognition of a problem is the first step to getting it straightened out.  She crossed the Rubicon with what happened on Sunday (which can be a good thing-conflict is growth waiting to happen). It's time to get serious about figuring out what is going on and fixing it; if she doesn't recognize that well then it's going to be real hard.

 

Well the good thing is, is she recognizes that she needs some major help. Now. After all of it. My little sister has bordeline personality Disorder. So the only thing I am nervous about is the apologies and "I know I am wrong and need help"`s are just temporory. Just like my sister. If they are. Then bigger changes than just therapy is in order. I have told her so.

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My fear, if married to a spouse like this, would be: how would she treat any future children?  If she cannot control herself when she gets angry/upset, would she be able to control herself when angry or upset with children?

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I'm quite open on lds.net about my psychological issues.  If my husband would have divorced me instead of helping me - first in recognizing that I have problems, and second - in dealing with the problems, and third - in enduring through the marriage with the problems... I wouldn't have a prayer of qualifying for a Temple Sealing and getting a chance at exaltation.

 

So yeah, I'm glad my husband (and now my kids) is made of sterner stuff than the "she's too big of a problem, divorce her already" camp.

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I'm quite open on lds.net about my psychological issues.  If my husband would have divorced me instead of helping me - first in recognizing that I have problems, and second - in dealing with the problems, and third - in enduring through the marriage with the problems... I wouldn't have a prayer of qualifying for a Temple Sealing and getting a chance at exaltation.

 

So yeah, I'm glad my husband (and now my kids) is made of sterner stuff than the "she's too big of a problem, divorce her already" camp.

 

I am apt to agree with the "stay with her" camp. Although. I do see the dangers on if this behavior continues or even gets worse. If it does that is when I will consider things. But at this point. There are many things I still need to try. BEFORE we have children. I wont being children into the current situation.

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I think you handled her little outburst perfectly. I would just follow through with everything you've said, and also not give in to her threats. She's going to divorce you? Okay, tell her to let you know when she's retained an attorney. She's going to destroy your stuff? Shrug. Things can be replaced. She wants to get a reaction from you. If you .don't give her the drama she wants, she'll back off fast. (Except maybe with the being destructive. My advice there is to immediately put anything precious to you in a box and leave it at your dad's house.) 

 

My prediction is that she's going to start projecting her abuse. In other words, she'll start telling other people you threw stuff at her. She'll tell people you're abandoning her. If she's like my family member that she sounds like, that's the method of operation. She'll find ways to justify and deny her own behavior, and even turn it around on to you. I hope I'm wrong.

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My biggest fear with the "stay with her" idea is she is going to seek the status quo. What is simplest for her is to continue her misbehavior and keep you.

Something needs to shake that up.

And perhaps she needs the assurance she will have you no matter what. So only threaten divorce if you are willing to go there. (And personally, I'd go there.)

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So only threaten divorce if you are willing to go there.

 

As with all such statements (whether or not you consider them "threats"), this is vital. Never threaten a consequence that you do not fully intend to follow through on, whether with spouse or children or anyone else. If you ever find you have done so, immediately retract the threat.

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I have never been in an abusive relationship; not even at the level described of throwing, slapping, damaging things, so I do have to defer to others on that matter. But I don't believe in zero-tolerance anything. People deserve second and third chances. I would be careful about involving the "law". They are unforgiving and have a mold that just doesn't fit anything but the worst case. I've seen it in other matters. Don't take it lightly that the law is going to help; they can make your life a hell not proportioned to the "crime". Go to your family so as to document issues, but most of all find a counselor.

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You seem to take a lot more blame to yourself than I think you should.  There is nothing wrong at all with you politely asking her to not play worldly music on Sunday, and certainly nothing wrong with refusing to respond in kind to her anger over it.  Why do you say you were 100% wrong there? 

 

Her behaviour is abusive, no question.  If you had kids and they saw her acting like that can you imagine how traumatized they would be?

 

My advice:  Seperate.  Now.  Gather your things up and move to your parents and don't set foot in that house again or be alone with her until you have both been though counseling and she has demonstrated she has changed.  If she won't go, go yourself, you need help dealing with this.  This may be a case of mental illness, or past abuse, or something else, but there is something dark and dangerous inside her. 

 

Document everything, take photos of the damage, keep any correspondence, keep a journal of it all.  If she initiates divorce  you will need to defend yourself.  Also do some research on battered husband's syndrome.  On one hand you are justified in divorcing an abusive woman like this, on the other hand if it is a mental illness issue things could be very different once she gets treatment, or if she is willing to go to counseling and really work on her issues things could improve and it could become a good marriage, but don't let the hope of that lead you down a self destructive path.  If you have a specific prompting from the Lord to not do it, or if there is real progress (not just promises) towards change then there is hope, but if that doesn't happen you are not obligated to stick around and be her emotional and physical punching bag.

Edited by Latter-Day Marriage
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You seem to take a lot more blame to yourself than I think you should.  There is nothing wrong at all with you politely asking her to not play worldly music on Sunday, and certainly nothing wrong with refusing to respond in kind to her anger over it.  Why do you say you were 100% wrong there? 

After years of marriage you learn not to correct a spouse on music, or TV, or movies, or clothes, or their weight, or foods, etc. All you will get is resentment and anger. They know right from wrong and they are chosing to excerise their agency. The best you do is demonstrate through actions that you do not do the same thing. You don't lecture. I'm betting he won't do it twice.  Besides, music not appropriate for Sunday is music not appropriate for Monday. Correcting her at that time was a mistake any person in a young relationship would make. The same with justifying going to Church and leaving a distraught spouse home (not that she had justification). Church will go on without you. Live for the Gospel, not the Church.

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Saying "How DARE you play such worldly, non-uplifting music on the Lord's Sabbath?!" is picking a fight.

 

Saying "My love, I would like us to observe the Sabbath by forgoing everyday activities that don't otherwise contribute to the Spirit. For me, playing or listening to that type of music is one of those things. Can we talk about avoiding that on Sundays?" is a respectful request for conversation about setting limits. I see nothing wrong with it. In fact, I see a lot that is right about it, regardless of what your opinion on the particular music may be.

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I told my wife very plainly and upfront that Will and Grace was not allowed in our home when she stopped on it whilst channel surfing one time. She changed the channel and it was no issue.

 

True story:  I told my husband, "Football is not allowed in our home".  He bought me my own TV.  LOL!

 

Yeah, my husband speaks/understands a completely different kind of English.  When I say, "Football is not allowed in our home" he understood it to be "I have a problem - I can't watch TV" so he goes off and solves it.  When I say, "Do I look fat?", he says, "Yes", and takes me running.  When I say, "Gah, my boss is driving me insane!" he goes looking for a higher paying job... so yeah, I learned to speak his language.  So, instead of saying, "Do I look fat?" I would say, "I want you to tell me I'm pretty even if you have to lie about it".  I kid you not!

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Just because your wife is fat doesn't mean you don't think she's pretty.

 

Female Language 101:  When your wife asks you, "Do you think I'm fat?", she's not asking you if she's fat or pretty.  She's asking you if you still find her attractive.

 

Male Responses to Female Language 101:  If you want to tell your wife she's attractive, you don't say, "You're fat and I think you're pretty".  You say, "Hot tamales, mama!  You're one pretty girl!".

 

Or, if you're Mr. and Mrs. Anatess - you just install a male-to female and a female-to-male translator in your head.

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I learned early on not to ask something I didn't want an honest answer to. I also learned early on that I can trust my husband implicitly because he will not lie. He learned to be a little more tactful, too. :) 

 

More on topic, he has requested that certain things happen or not happen in our home on Sundays, and in regards to media. Maybe I have a negative reaction sometimes, but whose fault is that? He wants a certain atmosphere in our home, and one of his responsibilities as presiding priesthood leader is to watch over our spiritual safety. He gives me the same respect; in fact when I asked that there not be violent games in our home, especially around the kids, he agreed.

 

The OP's wife's reaction was inappropriate and out of line, not just because he's the priesthood leader in the home, but because they are supposed to be grown-ups who can make requests of each other and have discussions without having to fear a toddler tantrum with grown-up strength. 

 

The more I hear the more I think you need to get out, at least until she makes strides toward change.

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Saying "My love, I would like us to observe the Sabbath by forgoing everyday activities that don't otherwise contribute to the Spirit. For me, playing or listening to that type of music is one of those things. Can we talk about avoiding that on Sundays?" is a respectful request for conversation about setting limits. I see nothing wrong with it. In fact, I see a lot that is right about it, regardless of what your opinion on the particular music may be.

 

Exactly, and the wife is entitled to say the same kind of thing to him if she sees something of that nature that bothers her.

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