Joseph Smith, multiple wives


CatholicLady
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It was the 1830's, and although frowned upon by some of society, it was still acceptable in some religious circles (as is still today in some parts of the world). There were other churches at the time of the Restorative Movement who favored polygamy, and it was said (although I offer no evidence) that Joseph Smith courted the Campbellites with the acceptance of polygamy as doctrine (which does not exclude it being divine - to temper any critics here).

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umm, because it was part of LDS theology?

It is something I was taught from and youth up until adult Sunday school. 

 

If you would like a short answer Abraham had multiple wives (Abraham was righteous), even if more modern western society frowns upon it, it's not something that is necessarily sinful. (Though I would like to add that there is sinful ways to practice polygamy just like there is sinful ways to practice marriage.)

 

*note this is the short version

Edited by Crypto
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Hi everyone. :)

How do you explain/reconcile Joseph Smith having multiple wives?

 

Thanks!

 

I explain it by claiming it factual.

 

I don't bother reconciling it because I don't think the need exists. There is, simply, nothing to reconcile. Implying there is presupposes that there is/was something wrong with the idea. But I say, basically...prove it.

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I explain it by claiming it factual.

 

I don't bother reconciling it because I don't think the need exists. There is, simply, nothing to reconcile. Implying there is presupposes that there is/was something wrong with the idea. But I say, basically...prove it.

Thanks guys. The reason I am asking is because I understand that Mormonism now does not allow polygammy as a moral marriage within the church. So I was confussed.

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Thanks guys. The reason I am asking is because I understand that Mormonism now does not allow polygammy as a moral marriage within the church. So I was confussed.

 

From the Book of Mormon. Jacob chapter 2

 

27 Wherefore, my brethren, hear me, and hearken to the word of the Lord: For there shall not any man among you have save it be one wife; and concubines he shall have none;

 28 For I, the Lord God, delight in the chastity of women. And whoredoms are an abomination before me; thus saith the Lord of Hosts.

 29 Wherefore, this people shall keep my commandments, saith the Lord of Hosts, or cursed be the land for their sakes.

 30 For if I will, saith the Lord of Hosts, raise up seed unto me, I will command my people; otherwise they shall hearken unto these things.

 

emphasis mine

Edited by The Folk Prophet
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Thanks guys. The reason I am asking is because I understand that Mormonism now does not allow polygammy as a moral marriage within the church. So I was confussed.

 

 

Mormons believe in modern day revelation.  The Lord to Joseph to practice polygamy in the 1800, along with some other church members.  In 1890, the Lord told the then-prophet that it was time to end the practice.  So it ended.  The links estrandling75 gave will give more detailed info.

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Thanks guys. The reason I am asking is because I understand that Mormonism now does not allow polygammy as a moral marriage within the church. So I was confussed.

 

This is a huge topic.  I'm sure your question will attract a swarm of comments.  In fact, I see them arriving now as I compose this reply.

 

It helped me to realize that many things in the LDS church seem unusual to outsiders, but that these things have clear roots in the Old and New Testaments: polygamy, baptism for the dead, washing and anointing, garments, etc.  But I don't think I'll ever understand the polygamy thing.  I have read LDS defenders state that polygamy was required to "build up Zion" because of imbalance in the ratio of men to women, but I've read other writings that deny this.  One of the most prominent LDS historians (Richard Bushman) said on a podcast that we'd probably "never crack" the puzzle of why polygamy appeared in the early Church.  (He is not a General Authority of the Church and this is his academic opinion.)

 

If you're curious, there is a web site called FairMormon that is a sort of Wikipedia for Mormon issues.  The section on polygamy is quite thorough and you might find it interesting.  I see now that 6 more responses have appeared in this thread, so perhaps someone has already mentioned it. 

 

http://en.fairmormon.org/Joseph_Smith/Polygamy

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Thanks guys. The reason I am asking is because I understand that Mormonism now does not allow polygammy as a moral marriage within the church. So I was confussed.

 

Polygamy is like matches, or power tools--there's nothing wrong with it per se, and it can be quite useful in some circumstances; but possibly highly destructive in the hands of a people who aren't prepared to use it properly.  That's why (per the scripture TheFolkProphet cites) there is a general presumption against polygamy except in specific circumstances where the Lord has authorized the practice.

 

Those circumstances existed in the mid-to-late 19th century.  They don't exist now.

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How do you reconcile Abraham, Jacob, David, Solomon.....and many others having multiple wives?

 

To be fair, I think most Christians would suggest that these marriages were tolerated--or perhaps even disapproved by--God; not that they were ordained by Him.  Abraham's and Jacob's polygamy led to plenty of heartache; and even in Mormon teaching it was David's and Solomon's lust for additional women that proved to be their spiritual undoing.

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To be fair, I think most Christians would suggest that these marriages were tolerated--or perhaps even disapproved by--God; not that they were ordained by Him.  Abraham's and Jacob's polygamy led to plenty of heartache; and even in Mormon teaching it was David's and Solomon's lust for additional women that proved to be their spiritual undoing.

 

But that doesn't cover the many others. ;)  Moses, in particular.

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I think Holy writ is largely silent on whether God approves or disapproves, but it is fairly apparent that it was practiced in ancient times and restored in latter times and will be apart of the Eternal realms.

 

Of course 2 Samuel 12:7-8 certainly strongly implies the Lord approved:

 

"And Nathan said to David, Thou art the man. Thus saith the Lord God of Israel, I anointed thee king over Israel, and I delivered thee out of the hand of Saul;

 

And I gave thee thy master’s house, and thy master’s wives into thy bosom, and gave thee the house of Israel and of Judah; and if that had been too little, I would moreover have given unto thee such and such things."

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Hi everyone. :)

How do you explain/reconcile Joseph Smith having multiple wives?

 

Thanks!

 

Late to the party. As others have wondered, I'm not sure what reconciliation is necessary. It's a historical fact, one that has not even attempted to be hidden since the Saints were driven out of the US and went to Deseret. My "reconciliation" (as such) is that Joseph was commanded by God to do so.

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How do you reconcile Abraham, Jacob, David, Solomon.....and many others having multiple wives?

How do I, as a Catholic, reconcile those guys having multiple wives? Well those guys were all in the Old Testament. None of them were the founder of Catholicism. We believe that when Jesus came, he brought forth a new faith - Christianity. If Jesus had multiple wives, or endorsed having multiple wives, I'd probably have a hard time reconciling the fact that Catholicism doesnt see it as acceptible.

Edited by CatholicLady
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I have read LDS defenders state that polygamy was required to "build up Zion" because of imbalance in the ratio of men to women, but I've read other writings that deny this.

 

I flatter myself that I'm an "LDS defender", at least in spirit. But I don't buy the imbalance argument. As far as I can see, that's nonsense.

 

The book of Jacob tells us that God commands plural marriage when he will "raise up seed" unto himself. It doesn't say that polygamous marriages produce more children than non-polygamous marriages; this seems counterintuitive, and I would be quite surprised if it were true. But there must be some reason that God's raising up seed to himself requires (or benefits from) polygamy. Dedication? Establishing patriarchal lines? Some genetic reason we don't yet fathom? A social reality among human beings we aren't aware of? I have no clear idea, but I do accept God's word in the Book of Mormon.

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It doesn't say that polygamous marriages produce more children than non-polygamous marriages; this seems counterintuitive, and I would be quite surprised if it were true. 

 

Just out of curiosity (and I have no pre-disposition to argue one way or another, so this is sincere), can you explain this. It strikes me, without thinking about it, that this is intuitive.

 

edit: unless I'm misunderstanding and you're saying the opposite of what I think you are.

Edited by The Folk Prophet
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Just out of curiosity (and I have no pre-disposition to argue one way or another, so this is sincere), can you explain this. It strikes me, without thinking about it, that this is intuitive.

 

The logic is that monogous marriages produce more kids because the women gets exclusive access to a man's seed (more opportunity to make babies).

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How do I, as a Catholic, reconcile those guys having multiple wives? Well those guys were all in the Old Testament. None of them were the founder of Catholicism. We believe that when Jesus came, he brought forth a new faith - Christianity. If Jesus had multiple wives, or endorsed having multiple wives, I'd probably have a hard time reconciling the fact that Catholicism doesnt see it as acceptible.

 

 

How do I, as a Catholic, reconcile those guys having multiple wives? Well those guys were all in the Old Testament. None of them were the founder of Catholicism. We believe that when Jesus came, he brought forth a new faith - Christianity. If Jesus had multiple wives, or endorsed having multiple wives, I'd probably have a hard time reconciling the fact that Catholicism doesnt see it as acceptible.

 

My point was that Latter Day Saints do not need to reconcile Joseph Smith and polygamy any more than the rest of Christianity needs to reconcile the practice in ancient times. It seems apparent that God's chosen practiced plural marriage and God was okay with it.

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The logic is that monogous marriages produce more kids because the women gets exclusive access to a man's seed (more opportunity to make babies).

That is like suggesting that a cattle rancher would produce more cows with one bull and one heifer, when the reality is that one bull and multiple heifers would produce more cows. Much more opportunity to make cows...

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The logic is that monogous marriages produce more kids because the women gets exclusive access to a man's seed (more opportunity to make babies).

 

To my sense of logic, this idea seems to seriously underestimate the prowess of a "man's seed".

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Just out of curiosity (and I have no pre-disposition to argue one way or another, so this is sincere), can you explain this. It strikes me, without thinking about it, that this is intuitive.

 

edit: unless I'm misunderstanding and you're saying the opposite of what I think you are.

 

If six women were married to one man, I would not expect those women to have more children as a group than if each woman were married to a different man. If anything, the latter arrangement (one woman per man) seems like it would, on average, have a better chance of producing more children.

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