PolarVortex Posted February 3, 2015 Report Share Posted February 3, 2015 Liberal and conservative outside the US has a specific philosophy that doesn't quite match the characteristics of the assigned label as used in mainstream American politics. There are several threads on lds.net where I defined the 2. Yes, I remember reading them... but then why are you confused about Rush's use of these terms? Surely you would expect him to use them in their American senses. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted February 3, 2015 Report Share Posted February 3, 2015 (edited) Yes, I remember reading them... but then why are you confused about Rush's use of these terms? Surely you would expect him to use them in their American senses. Because, they don't match those either. PrisonChaplain's use don't match those either. So, yeah, I can't pin a philosophy under the use of the label besides what I just said - if I have declared myself conservative and it doesn't agree with me then it's liberal and vice versa. So, it's more of like a team sport than political philosophy. Edited February 3, 2015 by anatess Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blackmarch Posted February 3, 2015 Report Share Posted February 3, 2015 Does it seem like most of the ....what I will call career politicians go,towards big govt ?? I wonder what term limits would do for this ? I have always liked the idea of term limits. There are politicians on both sides that need to go away.as long as major organizations pull the strings I doubt it would do much... but forcing them to look for more puppets might be a tad more beneficial, not much but a little. Palerider 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
prisonchaplain Posted February 3, 2015 Report Share Posted February 3, 2015 IMHO, Anatess, has some classic and international understandings of liberalism and conservatism. I checked her first link, and some of what she called liberalism would be termed Libertarian--or "classic liberalism." Many of us U.S.-grounded folks would call that conservatism. So...I can see the confusion. To further muddle matters, the parties have evolved over the decades. Many of Republicanism's current tenants were Democratic ideals 100 years ago. Most of us think we know what "conservative" and "liberal" mean, because we were born, raised, and educated in similar settings. There are no quick answers that work consistently. However, I can say with confidence that, in the American context, the Republican Party is the more conservative. In the international context, both major American parties are considered rather centrist. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted February 3, 2015 Report Share Posted February 3, 2015 (edited) Does it seem like most of the ....what I will call career politicians go,towards big govt ?? I wonder what term limits would do for this ? I have always liked the idea of term limits. There are politicians on both sides that need to go away. As long as one's livelihood is dependent fulltime on your paycheck as a politician, you will always have big government - even with term limits... that's because you get to pave the way for the next guy. The only way to really get rid of excessive government overreach is to make political offices run the same way as a Quorum - you have your means of livelihood separated from your government calling... but then, HOA's are set up close to that and you see how the power-drunkeness of being in the HOA gets very annoying. Edited February 3, 2015 by anatess Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Palerider Posted February 3, 2015 Report Share Posted February 3, 2015 It works pretty good in State politics with term limits...I think it would help in the DC politics if anything gets rid of the career politicians that have been around longer than the furniture. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted February 3, 2015 Report Share Posted February 3, 2015 It works pretty good in State politics with term limits...I think it would help in the DC politics if anything gets rid of the career politicians that have been around longer than the furniture. It is not working in all states. The machine feeds on itself... it's a money-making business so the machine keeps getting fat to feed the next round of politicians. You need to get the money out of the machine. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted February 3, 2015 Report Share Posted February 3, 2015 However, I can say with confidence that, in the American context, the Republican Party is the more conservative. I think this only applies consistently to social issues and immigration. Other than those, I'm not so sure. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
prisonchaplain Posted February 3, 2015 Report Share Posted February 3, 2015 I'll throw this out in response...would a President Romney have been more conservative than President Clinton was? Clinton was perceived as a relatively conservative Democrat, whereas Romney is perceived as a pretty moderate Republican. So, are they really just six for one and a half-dozen for the other, or would there be signficant economic ideological differences? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vort Posted February 3, 2015 Report Share Posted February 3, 2015 I didn't vote for Clinton either time, but honestly, in retrospect he did some pretty solid things as President wrt the economy. Romney being an economic Clinton II would not have been a bad thing (though I personally think that Romney might well have been more like an Eisenhower II). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PolarVortex Posted February 3, 2015 Report Share Posted February 3, 2015 I'll throw this out in response...would a President Romney have been more conservative than President Clinton was? Clinton was perceived as a relatively conservative Democrat, whereas Romney is perceived as a pretty moderate Republican. So, are they really just six for one and a half-dozen for the other, or would there be signficant economic ideological differences? I think Romney would have been more conservative. Clinton kept screaming against "tax cuts for the rich who don't need them," and I don't think Romney would have said that. I liked Clinton. That whole issue irritates me. I wish the GOP would push to drop all income taxes for the poorer 50% of all taxpayers. It wouldn't cost that much (the richer 50% of all taxpayers pay 97.75% of all income taxes), and it would kill that incredibly stupid meme, promulgated by a certain president with a last name starting in O, that the rich aren't paying their fair share in taxes. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Folk Prophet Posted February 3, 2015 Report Share Posted February 3, 2015 Get rid of income tax. Make it all sales tax. :) Wasn't that like a Ron Paul philosophy or something? Hehe. Palerider 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PolarVortex Posted February 4, 2015 Report Share Posted February 4, 2015 Get rid of income tax. Make it all sales tax. :) Wasn't that like a Ron Paul philosophy or something? Hehe. That's certainly an idea worth exploring. If I were emperor, I'd allow everyone to accumulate all income in tax-free accounts. Whenever you withdraw money, x% of the amount is taxed at a flat rate, where x is different for everyone and depends on how many dependents you have, your age, your criminal record, your weight in pounds, and maybe how much you interrupt others when they try to speak. (Guess what my biggest pet peeve is?) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Palerider Posted February 4, 2015 Report Share Posted February 4, 2015 It is not working in all states. The machine feeds on itself... it's a money-making business so the machine keeps getting fat to feed the next round of politicians. You need to get the money out of the machine.Yes it is working in some states. We happen to have term limits where I live. It works just fine. Never said the politics was perfect but you get fresh blood in. I also think it could work in DC politics. My opinion. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Palerider Posted February 4, 2015 Report Share Posted February 4, 2015 Get rid of income tax. Make it all sales tax. :) Wasn't that like a Ron Paul philosophy or something? Hehe.Have you ever had the chance to listen to the CD's or CD put out by the Ron Paul people?? There is a man in the area here where I live who is a big big Ron Paul fan. He use to serve on the High Council with me. When it was his turn to drive he played a few of these for me. To me it's way out there. A relative of Cleon Skousen perhaps a son ....is the speaker. He was talking about the election that was still in the early part of the campaign. He told why OBama would win the election and then goes into the Tri Lateral Commission and the Skull and Bones Society. This same brother who I was riding with told me he believed the reason why they attempted to assassinate Reagan was due to no one from the Skull and Bones Society. Then during the second term he had several in his Cabinet that were members of the skull and bones society. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vort Posted February 4, 2015 Report Share Posted February 4, 2015 Get rid of income tax. Make it all sales tax. :) Wasn't that like a Ron Paul philosophy or something? Hehe. Ron Paul philosophy or not, it makes perfect sense. Palerider 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Folk Prophet Posted February 4, 2015 Report Share Posted February 4, 2015 (edited) Have you ever had the chance to listen to the CD's or CD put out by the Ron Paul people?? Nope. Not interested. :) Though I do admit that I like some (emphasized intentionally) of the theories I've heard behind the Ron Paul ideology, I'm leery of anyone who has such avid cult-like followers. Edit: Particularly politically speaking. I would hope that I would have been one of the avid cult-like followers of Jesus Christ, for example. Edited February 4, 2015 by The Folk Prophet Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Palerider Posted February 4, 2015 Report Share Posted February 4, 2015 Nope. Not interested. :) Though I do admit that I like some (emphasized intentionally) of the theories I've heard behind the Ron Paul ideology, I'm leery of anyone who has such avid cult-like followers. Edit: Particularly politically speaking. I would hope that I would have been one of the avid cult-like followers of Jesus Christ, for example.I really wasn't interested either....our stake center is 90 miles away....I was stuck....Lol Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
yjacket Posted February 4, 2015 Report Share Posted February 4, 2015 Nope. Not interested. :) Though I do admit that I like some (emphasized intentionally) of the theories I've heard behind the Ron Paul ideology, I'm leery of anyone who has such avid cult-like followers. Edit: Particularly politically speaking. I would hope that I would have been one of the avid cult-like followers of Jesus Christ, for example. I've had the chance to meet Ron Paul and have a conversation with him. He is extremely well educated and is certainly very religious. While he can certainly be a firebrand at times, he is one of the most genuine, honest political leaders I've met (and I have met several Congressmen before). I honestly believe he is a true Christian and the light of Christ shines through him. It is absolutely stunning to me that he survived 30+ years in Congress without being corrupted. He is truly incorruptible. He is one of the very few individuals who doesn't want power, doesn't want to control everyone's life. Personally, I came to agree with his philosophy before I knew much about him. I used classify myself as a part of the Constitution Party and I liked prohibition on drugs and a whole host of other immoral deeds. Then I started reading, I wanted to understand the financial climate at the time in '06 and I started reading some very dense Austrian economic books. And what I read just made logical sense to me and before I knew it my views on the drug war etc. changed. Then I found Ron Paul and said wow here is a politician who agrees with my thinking. Some might classify it as "cult-like" but it's more that I've read a lot from some of the best classical liberal minds, from Thomas Aquinas, Lord Acton, Frederick Bastiat, Mises, Rothbard, Nock, etc. and that is how I've acquired my political thinking. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
yjacket Posted February 4, 2015 Report Share Posted February 4, 2015 I'll throw this out in response...would a President Romney have been more conservative than President Clinton was? Clinton was perceived as a relatively conservative Democrat, whereas Romney is perceived as a pretty moderate Republican. So, are they really just six for one and a half-dozen for the other, or would there be signficant economic ideological differences?I don't know. I do know that Romney was a Democrat before he entered into politics. His first race was against a Kennedy and he knew that he couldn't beat a Kennedy in the primary, so the only chance was to beat him in the general and to do that he needed to run as a Republican. Romney is pretty much a liberal Republican . . .which is one reason why I personally think he lost in 2012. When faced against Obama he couldn't hit him real hard simply because philosophically Obama and him agreed. Just like Chris Christie, one is not going to be a Republican Governor in Mass. or N.J. and be a hardcore conservative. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Folk Prophet Posted February 4, 2015 Report Share Posted February 4, 2015 I've had the chance to meet Ron Paul and have a conversation with him. He is extremely well educated and is certainly very religious. While he can certainly be a firebrand at times, he is one of the most genuine, honest political leaders I've met (and I have met several Congressmen before). I honestly believe he is a true Christian and the light of Christ shines through him. It is absolutely stunning to me that he survived 30+ years in Congress without being corrupted. He is truly incorruptible. He is one of the very few individuals who doesn't want power, doesn't want to control everyone's life. Personally, I came to agree with his philosophy before I knew much about him. I used classify myself as a part of the Constitution Party and I liked prohibition on drugs and a whole host of other immoral deeds. Then I started reading, I wanted to understand the financial climate at the time in '06 and I started reading some very dense Austrian economic books. And what I read just made logical sense to me and before I knew it my views on the drug war etc. changed. Then I found Ron Paul and said wow here is a politician who agrees with my thinking. Some might classify it as "cult-like" but it's more that I've read a lot from some of the best classical liberal minds, from Thomas Aquinas, Lord Acton, Frederick Bastiat, Mises, Rothbard, Nock, etc. and that is how I've acquired my political thinking. Honestly, my only real sense of "cult-like" comes from seeing Ron Paul bumper stickers... so I wouldn't take anything I say in the matter too seriously. I'm moderately non-political. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Capitalist_Oinker Posted February 7, 2015 Report Share Posted February 7, 2015 Perhaps it wasn't the case 20 years or more ago, but I firmly believe that today it's impossible to be a "good" Mormon and a "good" Democrat at the same time. Frankly, when it comes to question #6 for a Temple Recommend, I don't understand how a "good" Democrat can honestly answer the question with a "no"? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mordorbund Posted February 8, 2015 Report Share Posted February 8, 2015 Perhaps it wasn't the case 20 years or more ago, but I firmly believe that today it's impossible to be a "good" Mormon and a "good" Democrat at the same time. Frankly, when it comes to question #6 for a Temple Recommend, I don't understand how a "good" Democrat can honestly answer the question with a "no"? Have you asked one? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Capitalist_Oinker Posted February 8, 2015 Report Share Posted February 8, 2015 Have you asked one? Yes, I've asked "one". As a matter of fact I've asked many.And without fail the answer is always a sophistic dance around the issue, much like the link you provided. The question is clear and straightforward.. "Do you affiliate with any group or individual whose teachings or practices are contrary to or oppose those accepted by The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints, or do you sympathize with the precepts of any such group or individual?" Anyone who has read the Democratic Party national platform cannot deny that some of its "teachings" are "contrary to" and "oppose those accepted by The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints", particularly as it pertains to homosexual marriage. It's a sad fact that many members of the Church place politics above gospel principals; and politicians above prophets, seers and revelators. And I don't believe there is anything uncivil about pointing that out. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Palerider Posted February 8, 2015 Report Share Posted February 8, 2015 You could ask a few of the General Authorities that question. We do have some that are Democrats. pam 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.
Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible.