Republican vs Democrat


CatholicLady
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Only if you think that refusal to pursue ecclesiastic discipline is the same as condoning something. I don't think that.

 

 

The first comment, as a general statement, is true. The second is laughable.

I can certainly see how the second part is laughable . . .by honest I meant the democrats are generally for more socialistic agenda and they act on it.  With Obama or Clinton you know what you are getting. With Repubs there is always the hope that they live up to their claims . . . .and then don't.

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For me (and I think a lot of Mormons out there as well), the abortion issue is enough to push us towards the Republican party.

 

I'm not LDS, but my church tracks similarly.  My pastor has spoken against abortion from the pulpit.  He has opposed gay marriage.  He encourages us to vote our conscience, but to pay special attention to those social issues, even though many pundits (especially partisan ones) want to downplay them.

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Abortions are down.  I believe there are fewer clinics.  Further, should public opinion continue to swing pro-life, then I feel pretty certain about which political party will be quickest to respond with more legislative restrictions, or even another go at some kind of amendment to the Constitution protecting unborn children.

 

There is no doubt that social conservatives are dancing with folks who are only nominally committed to our causes.  However, we dance as best we can with those partners will to at least take our hand.

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Guest LiterateParakeet

Mormons, is there any sort of push in your church/community (even if subtle) to vote Republican instead of Democrat?

 

As the others have said, the church leaders never tell us how to vote.  However, since most Mormons are Republican (in my experience) there is considerable peer pressure.  I consider myself Independent, but my friends and some of my family would likely call me a Liberal.  Expressing my opinions on Facebook about issues (racism and police brutality) which I didn't intend to be political, has gotten me unfriended by two people in my ward (that I am aware of).  

 

I'm definitely Pro-Life.  :)

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As the others have said, the church leaders never tell us how to vote.  However, since most Mormons are Republican (in my experience) there is considerable peer pressure.  I consider myself Independent, but my friends and some of my family would likely call me a Liberal.  Expressing my opinions on Facebook about issues (racism and police brutality) which I didn't intend to be political, has gotten me unfriended by two people in my ward (that I am aware of).  

 

I'm definitely Pro-Life.   :)

 

It is not likely to be a liberal and pro life at the same time... sounds like your friends/family got it wrong! :)

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It is not likely to be a liberal and pro life at the same time... sounds like your friends/family got it wrong! :)

 

Thanks.  That's one reason why I can't understand why people insist on making everything political.  

 

The reason I think my friends and family would call me liberal is because of my views on immigration, racism, police brutality, homelessness, prison reform...etc.  On all these issues my views seem to be what people would call "Liberal".  If that makes me a "Bleeding Heart" so be it.  :)  

On FB I have friends on both sides of all these issues...which means no matter what I say I'm likely to offend someone, LOL.  Fortunately all my friends (the ones that haven't unfriended me) are pretty tolerant.  

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As the others have said, the church leaders never tell us how to vote.  However, since most Mormons are Republican (in my experience) there is considerable peer pressure.  I consider myself Independent, but my friends and some of my family would likely call me a Liberal.  Expressing my opinions on Facebook about issues (racism and police brutality) which I didn't intend to be political, has gotten me unfriended by two people in my ward (that I am aware of).  

 

I'm definitely Pro-Life.   :)

Oh my gosh, I know EXACTLY what you mean! 

I'm a libertarian but I'm also pro-life. Personally I have some very liberal views as well. My conservative friends think I'm too liberal and my liberal friends think I'm too conservative. 

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And I've had friends unfriend me as well. Only two but I was stunned. I considered them the most "tolerant" people I knew but in reality, tolerant people are only tolerant if you agree with them.

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Oh my gosh, I know EXACTLY what you mean! 

I'm a libertarian but I'm also pro-life. PersonallyI have some very liberal views as well. My conservative friends think I'm too liberal and my liberal friends think I'm too conservative. 

 

Yes!  I love this because that's what happens to me too!  :)

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Mormons, is there any sort of push in your church/community (even if subtle) to vote Republican instead of Democrat?

not while leaders are at the pulpit... but ya outside of that if you get with anyone who's into politics they'll encourage you a lot with whatever party. Fortunately i've really never had any pressure form leaders to vote any specific person or party

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My ward knows my whacky Paulbot views on things. They don't care. No one has ever said a word about them, actually.  We have liberals, conservatives, you name it. Politics ends at the church door in our view. 

 

Than again, my ward is awesome anyway

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These types of threads always stump me because the American definition of Liberal and Conservative are really wacky.  It's easier to understand Democrat versus Republican - I get their platforms.  But an American saying - I'm not Republican, I'm conservative... I have to really be careful about parsing what they really mean by that one.

 

So, since I'm not an American citizen, I'm neither Democrat nor Republican, but I can't say I'm liberal nor conservative either because those have fluid definitions in the US.

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You may not be an official member, but if you were granted "honorary" status, I have a pretty good guess at which party would be bestowing it upon you.  On the conservative side, if you want a deeper understanding of what the differences are just look up the Young Republicans vs. the Young Americans for Freedom.  The former promotes the party and its candidates, regardless of ideology.  The latter promotes a conservative ideology, regardless of party (though 90%+ it will be Republican).

 

http://yrnf.com/about-us/#sthash.aR9EfZdy.dpbs

 

http://www.yaf.org/

 

So, since I'm not an American citizen, I'm neither Democrat nor Republican, but I can't say I'm liberal nor conservative either because those have fluid definitions in the US.

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You may not be an official member, but if you were granted "honorary" status, I have a pretty good guess at which party would be bestowing it upon you.  On the conservative side, if you want a deeper understanding of what the differences are just look up the Young Republicans vs. the Young Americans for Freedom.  The former promotes the party and its candidates, regardless of ideology.  The latter promotes a conservative ideology, regardless of party (though 90%+ it will be Republican).

 

http://yrnf.com/about-us/#sthash.aR9EfZdy.dpbs

 

http://www.yaf.org/

 

I listen to Rush Limbaugh a bit and his use of the word liberal and conservative is confusing.  For example - he seems to associate small government with conservatism and big government with liberalism... I don't get this except for the relationship between State and Federal.

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I listen to Rush Limbaugh a bit and his use of the word liberal and conservative is confusing.  For example - he seems to associate small government with conservatism and big government with liberalism... I don't get this except for the relationship between State and Federal.

 

 

Actually, this is hugely important.  Limbaugh's equating conservatism with small government means he believes government should be lean.  It should do a few things, and do them well.  When government engrains itself in too much it becomes controlling, and stifles innovation, creativity, personal responsiblity, and most certainly liberty (to become big it must tax more, leaving less for individuals and their families). 

 

Perhaps an example is charity.  Self-identified conservatives give more to charity than liberals.  Why?  We believe in private charity.  They often mesh religion and social work.  They rely on volunteers and low-paid workers (usually), who become personally involved in the lives of those they help.  There is accountablity, and the ultimate goal is the liberation of the recipients from the need for charity.  Liberals, on the other hand, favor government programs for those in need.  Government programs have to be secular, promote equality of results, consider accountablity and responsiblity requirements to be demeaning to the recipients, and, since their workers are government-employees, the goal is to keep the program running.  Often, large-scale government charity will have 5-generations of families on the dole.

 

So Limbaugh is correct.  "Small government" is a conservative ideal (lower taxes, fewer programs).  "Big government" is a liberal ideal (bigger government, more programs, more taxes).

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So Limbaugh is correct. "Small government" is a conservative ideal (lower taxes, fewer programs). "Big government" is a liberal ideal (bigger government, more programs, more taxes).

Except that... Big government is not inherently liberal just as much as small government is not inherently conservative. Hence the confusion. There's no rhyme or reason on when Rush says it's liberal/conservative besides the - "I'm conservative, so whatever I think is right must be conservative and whatever is opposed to my thinking is liberal".

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Except that... Big government is not inherently liberal just as much as small government is not inherently conservative. 

 

Where did you get that idea?  I would say it's inaccurate.

 

I agree, many Republicans have voted for bigger government, but that's just because they're addicted to the same political crack that many Democrats smoke: using other people's money to buy votes from people who vote solely on the basis of how many government benefits they get.  Any decent Republican theoretician will tell you that conservatives favor limited government.  Reagan said it best: "Government's view of the economy could be summed up in a few short phrases: If it moves, tax it. If it keeps moving, regulate it. And if it stops moving, subsidize it."

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Guest LiterateParakeet

Actually, this is hugely important.  Limbaugh's equating conservatism with small government means he believes government should be lean.  It should do a few things, and do them well.  When government engrains itself in too much it becomes controlling, and stifles innovation, creativity, personal responsiblity, and most certainly liberty (to become big it must tax more, leaving less for individuals and their families). 

 

I agree with the idea of limited government, and I agree that Republicans claim to believe in that...but what Republican politicians actually do is another story.  This is the reason I became an Independent.  I voted for George W. Bush because he talked about smaller government, and then...the Patriot Act happened.  

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Thus another difference between conservatism and allegiance to the Republican Party.  Republicans tend to be more conservative than Democrats, but parties are established to acquire power.  That utilitarian functions runs counter to "small government."  So, from time to time movements, like the current Tea Party, arise to protest.

 

So, "small government" is a conservative ideal--but not always a Republican one, and very seldom a Democratic one.

 

I agree with the idea of limited government, and I agree that Republicans claim to believe in that...but what Republican politicians actually do is another story.  This is the reason I became an Independent.  I voted for George W. Bush because he talked about smaller government, and then...the Patriot Act happened.  

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Where did you get that idea?  I would say it's inaccurate.

 

I agree, many Republicans have voted for bigger government, but that's just because they're addicted to the same political crack that many Democrats smoke: using other people's money to buy votes from people who vote solely on the basis of how many government benefits they get.  Any decent Republican theoretician will tell you that conservatives favor limited government.  Reagan said it best: "Government's view of the economy could be summed up in a few short phrases: If it moves, tax it. If it keeps moving, regulate it. And if it stops moving, subsidize it."

 

Outside of the US.  My family is like the Kennedy's in the Philippines - lots of political people.  I was not even a teen-ager yet when I started campaigning.  If I didn't migrate to the US, I'd be at least a Senator by now.  As it is - I've never voted legally in my entire life.

 

Liberal and conservative outside the US has a specific philosophy that doesn't quite match the characteristics of the assigned label as used in mainstream American politics.  There are several threads on lds.net where I defined the 2.

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