pam Posted February 16, 2015 Report Share Posted February 16, 2015 Did someone say chocolate? Go back to sleep. Of course I say that as I drink my nightly hot chocolate. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MarginOfError Posted February 16, 2015 Report Share Posted February 16, 2015 A presumption that a difference of opinion means those who disagree must be ignorant is pretty arrogant. Trust us. We would know! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Folk Prophet Posted February 16, 2015 Report Share Posted February 16, 2015 Trust us. We would know! Touche. Oh...and bite me. MarginOfError 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MarginOfError Posted February 16, 2015 Report Share Posted February 16, 2015 Touche. Oh...and bite me. To be fair, I embody that flaw as much as anyone else. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted February 16, 2015 Report Share Posted February 16, 2015 I submit... it's not really a flaw. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MarginOfError Posted February 16, 2015 Report Share Posted February 16, 2015 I submit... it's not really a flaw. If that's the case, then I'm pretty darn near perfect. *waits to be translated* Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Folk Prophet Posted February 16, 2015 Report Share Posted February 16, 2015 To be fair, I embody that flaw as much as anyone else. It's also, to be fair, quite different to communicate with various people for months or years and develop an opinion that they don't bother to study and learn before opening their yaps, and to come into a forum where you don't know people and jump immediately to that conclusion based on a disagreement -- particularly in a discussion as volatile as the Word of Wisdom. It's also fairly ironically ignorant (or, would that be ignorantly ironic?) to claim people aren't well studied based on a certain number of quotes, while at the same time completely ignoring other quotes, statements, examples, and teachings to the contrary. Maureen 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pa Pa Posted February 16, 2015 Report Share Posted February 16, 2015 Is it in avoiding excess? Saying plain "No"? When it was revealed wasn't a commandment, was a suggestion, later made a law by other Prophet.I think it is interesting to discuss this, for example, my mom (no LDS) never drinks, but she allows a glass of wine maybe three times a year, she isn't an alcoholic, which is what most members believe when it comes to alcohol.Cigarettes and drugs are ABSOLUTE NO'S, but tea and coffee are being debated today.First of all the "wow" is for members, not,for anyone else, although a good idea.. It is not our place to expect others to live our standards. Also coffee and tea are not debatable for members. We either obey God's will given to us by Prophets or we don't. We will have to answer for how we choose. Thankfully there is no prohibition on bacon. :) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
omegaseamaster75 Posted February 16, 2015 Report Share Posted February 16, 2015 So WOW......Policy or Doctrine.....? Specifically the way we practice it now, say from 1930ish to present day... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted February 16, 2015 Report Share Posted February 16, 2015 So WOW......Policy or Doctrine.....? Specifically the way we practice it now, say from 1930ish to present day... Commandment = Doctrine. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
omegaseamaster75 Posted February 16, 2015 Report Share Posted February 16, 2015 (edited) Doctrines change? or do policies change? Edited February 16, 2015 by omegaseamaster75 Latter Days Guy 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted February 17, 2015 Report Share Posted February 17, 2015 (edited) Doctrines change?or do policies change?In the LDS Church, they both change.In the Catholic Church, doctrine doesn't... Closed canon and all that...But then we on lds.net love to argue on the definition of doctrine. Lol. Edited February 17, 2015 by anatess Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Latter Days Guy Posted February 17, 2015 Report Share Posted February 17, 2015 This has been a bit confusing for me! When I first joined the church way back in 1987 it was we don't smoke, drink alcoholic beverages or tea/coffee. Caffeinated drinks were also a no go. Fast forwards to after my time away from the church and its now ok to drink the cokes etc that were previously banned! Maybe they were just being over zealous back in the day but who knows!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Folk Prophet Posted February 17, 2015 Report Share Posted February 17, 2015 This has been a bit confusing for me! When I first joined the church way back in 1987 it was we don't smoke, drink alcoholic beverages or tea/coffee. Caffeinated drinks were also a no go. Fast forwards to after my time away from the church and its now ok to drink the cokes etc that were previously banned! Maybe they were just being over zealous back in the day but who knows!! Some missionary or president was over zealous. Caffeinated soda has never been "banned". There was a time when it was more commonly viewed as wrong (probably spurred on by BYU's policy to not carry them and the like). I remember as a kid feeling slightly shocked that my good-Mormon neighbor had an empty Dr. Pepper bottle in his back yard once. It was like seeing a beer can to my little-kid eyes. But there's never been a no soda policy. Latter Days Guy 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
omegaseamaster75 Posted February 17, 2015 Report Share Posted February 17, 2015 In the LDS Church, they both change.In the Catholic Church, doctrine doesn't... Closed canon and all that...But then we on lds.net love to argue on the definition of doctrine. Lol.Just for fun name a Doctrine that has changed.....I am not trying to pick a fight we obviously disagree on the subject, I just would like to know what you think and I will refrain from comment on it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bytor2112 Posted February 18, 2015 Report Share Posted February 18, 2015 I am always fascinated with our strict adherence to no coffee, tea, alcohol, tobacco etc and our casual observance of eating meat sparingly. Not casting stones, just musing from my own glass house... Latter Days Guy, Jane_Doe and Crypto 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Folk Prophet Posted February 18, 2015 Report Share Posted February 18, 2015 I am always fascinated with our strict adherence to no coffee, tea, alcohol, tobacco etc and our casual observance of eating meat sparingly. Not casting stones, just musing from my own glass house... To be fair, our leaders have specifically decreed...well...specifics on the "big 4", but have not done so on meat amounts. If they were to say, any more than 1lb per week and you lose your temple recommend, I'm sure those of us who diligently refrain from the other 4 would be just as diligent with the meat thing. There's variance in the understanding of what is and is not, "casual" (and/or "sparingly"), and perhaps what you (and others) view as casual is actually, not. Vort 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bytor2112 Posted February 18, 2015 Report Share Posted February 18, 2015 To be fair, our leaders have specifically decreed...well...specifics on the "big 4", but have not done so on meat amounts. If they were to say, any more than 1lb per week and you lose your temple recommend, I'm sure those of us who diligently refrain from the other 4 would be just as diligent with the meat thing. There's variance in the understanding of what is and is not, "casual" (and/or "sparingly"), and perhaps what you (and others) view as casual is actually, not. You obviously have never been to a 5th Sunday potluck in the South... ;-) The Folk Prophet 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted February 18, 2015 Report Share Posted February 18, 2015 I am always fascinated with our strict adherence to no coffee, tea, alcohol, tobacco etc and our casual observance of eating meat sparingly. Not casting stones, just musing from my own glass house... To be fair, our leaders have specifically decreed...well...specifics on the "big 4", but have not done so on meat amounts. If they were to say, any more than 1lb per week and you lose your temple recommend, I'm sure those of us who diligently refrain from the other 4 would be just as diligent with the meat thing. There's variance in the understanding of what is and is not, "casual" (and/or "sparingly"), and perhaps what you (and others) view as casual is actually, not. You obviously have never been to a 5th Sunday potluck in the South... ;-) Eating meat sparingly is tricky to put a general rule in... First we have to define what counts as meat... does fish count as meat, how about eggs? etc. Then you have to figure out each individual's protein requirements. They are all different. My kids, for example, require 50oz of protein to last through their day. More if they have jiu-jitsu class. More if they are prepping for a tournament. Then you have to figure out each individual's access to protein sources. Can they get it through plant protein instead of animal protein? Etc. Then you can decide if you're being "sparingly" or "excessive"... which will be different for everybody. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Folk Prophet Posted February 18, 2015 Report Share Posted February 18, 2015 Eating meat sparingly is tricky to put a general rule in... First we have to define what counts as meat... does fish count as meat, how about eggs? etc. Then you have to figure out each individual's protein requirements. They are all different. My kids, for example, require 50oz of protein to last through their day. More if they have jiu-jitsu class. More if they are prepping for a tournament. Then you have to figure out each individual's access to protein sources. Can they get it through plant protein instead of animal protein? Etc. Then you can decide if you're being "sparingly" or "excessive"... which will be different for everybody. I, for example, eat a ton of protein because I lift weights daily. Someone who does not life shouldn't eat as much protein as I do. Of course, I use a lot of protein shakes and eggs, rather than bloody steaks. But, of course, as you point out, what counts and what doesn't? I eat a fair amount of lean hamburger, 3 or 4 times a week some times, a ton of chicken, and a lot of Salmon. All those count in my book as meat. But I eat what I need for my nutritive requirements for lifting. I go beyond that on weekends sometimes, but generally speaking, I eat what my body needs. And that, in my book, is sparingly. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vort Posted February 18, 2015 Report Share Posted February 18, 2015 The older I get, the more weight I lift getting out of bed every morning. I wonder if eating meat might help? Latter Days Guy, The Folk Prophet, hagoth and 5 others 8 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
askandanswer Posted February 19, 2015 Report Share Posted February 19, 2015 (edited) Good luck finding Cadbury eggs this year. Unless they are already in the country. :) The major grocery stores in this country started stocking Cadbury easter eggs and hot cross buns about two weeks after Christmas. Its ridiculous! Edited February 19, 2015 by askandanswer Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
askandanswer Posted February 19, 2015 Report Share Posted February 19, 2015 The WoW prohibits the use of tea or coffee, but not the use of the ingredient that makes tea and coffee bad - caffeine - and allows the consumption of other product, such as cola drinks, that contain even more of that same ingredient. The WoW prohibits the use of tobacco but I haven’t heard anything about not using the substance that makes tobacco bad – nicotine. So does that mean that, in the same way its ok to use cola drinks and chocolate, its ok to use those other products that contain nicotine, like nicotine patches and nicotine gum? (This is not a course I’m advocating.) If its not ok to use nicotine patches and similar products, then is it equally un-ok to use caffeinated drinks? And would there be any difference in the response of ecclesiastical leaders between a new member who is still trying to get over their cigarette habit by using patches, and a new member who has never smoked before, but who decides to start using patches simply because they want to experience what its like to use nicotine? Same situation but different motivations. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Folk Prophet Posted February 19, 2015 Report Share Posted February 19, 2015 (edited) The WoW prohibits the use of tea or coffee, but not the use of the ingredient that makes tea and coffee bad - caffeine - and allows the consumption of other product, such as cola drinks, that contain even more of that same ingredient. The WoW prohibits the use of tobacco but I haven’t heard anything about not using the substance that makes tobacco bad – nicotine. So does that mean that, in the same way its ok to use cola drinks and chocolate, its ok to use those other products that contain nicotine, like nicotine patches and nicotine gum? (This is not a course I’m advocating.) If its not ok to use nicotine patches and similar products, then is it equally un-ok to use caffeinated drinks? Interesting idea. However, there are (theoretically) certain benefits to careful and wise usage of caffeine. I'm not sure the same could be said of nicotine. And would there be any difference in the response of ecclesiastical leaders between a new member who is still trying to get over their cigarette habit by using patches, and a new member who has never smoked before, but who decides to start using patches simply because they want to experience what its like to use nicotine? Same situation but different motivations. I expect there would be a difference. Edited February 19, 2015 by The Folk Prophet Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maureen Posted February 19, 2015 Report Share Posted February 19, 2015 The WoW prohibits the use of tea or coffee, but not the use of the ingredient that makes tea and coffee bad - caffeine - Why do you assume it's the caffeine that makes tea and coffee bad (in the Mormon perspective)? M. mordorbund 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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