paracaidista508 Posted February 23, 2015 Report Share Posted February 23, 2015 "Total and complete bull. The standard one has to be meet on the Word of Wisdom aspect of Temple recommend worthiness is very clear. Ask any missionary." Agreed that is the standard that is supposed to be met, but....Again I'm out smoking on the church lawn and Bro and SIS cantstopeatingdonuts is over there gorging themselves on DR pepper and a fourth plate of cherry pie. You know darn well I'd never get the recommend and the lovely couple would...even if we are both seen by the bishop doing what we are doing.BTW_ I don't get heartburn over this stuff, I'm just pointing out why I don't get heartburn over it. It isn't enforced and you know it. What I mean by "enforced" is when a bishop knows and has seen a person do this stuff it isn't even mentioned unless it is smoking, drinking, coffee or drug abuse. If you say it is then you definitely attend a different LDS church than I do. I have never heard of it enforced and I'm near a half century of membership here. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
estradling75 Posted February 23, 2015 Report Share Posted February 23, 2015 "Total and complete bull. The standard one has to be meet on the Word of Wisdom aspect of Temple recommend worthiness is very clear. Ask any missionary." Agreed that is the standard that is supposed to be met, but....Again I'm out smoking on the church lawn and Bro and SIS cantstopeatingdonuts is over there gorging themselves on DR pepper and a fourth plate of cherry pie. You know darn well I'd never get the recommend and the lovely couple would...even if we are both seen by the bishop doing what we are doing.BTW_ I don't get heartburn over this stuff, I'm just pointing out why I don't get heartburn over it. It isn't enforced and you know it. What I mean by "enforced" is when a bishop knows and has seen a person do this stuff it isn't even mentioned unless it is smoking, drinking, coffee or drug abuse. If you say it is then you definitely attend a different LDS church than I do. I have never heard of it enforced and I'm near a half century of membership here. Why would a bishop enforce something the church does not require? lagarthaaz and Vort 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
paracaidista508 Posted February 23, 2015 Report Share Posted February 23, 2015 (edited) According to this the church does require us to use grains and meat with prudence. https://www.lds.org/topics/word-of-wisdom?lang=eng So despite this statement from the church, we dontrequire restraint and discipline when it comes to addictions to carbs and sugars? You have made my point for me....it is required, but not really. Edited February 23, 2015 by paracaidista508 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
paracaidista508 Posted February 23, 2015 Report Share Posted February 23, 2015 (edited) You are making my point. You don't even regard the wow to be council against gluttony. if 89 states I am to use meats and grain sparingly, a gluttonous person is clearly violating the wow. Funny how you disregard that guidance too. My point is made By none other than you. Edited February 24, 2015 by paracaidista508 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Folk Prophet Posted February 24, 2015 Report Share Posted February 24, 2015 According to this the church does require us to use grains and meat with prudence. https://www.lds.org/topics/word-of-wisdom?lang=eng So despite this statement from the church, we dontrequire restraint and discipline when it comes to addictions to carbs and sugars? You have made my point for me....it is required, but not really. I think, maybe, you need to more carefully consider the meaning of the word "require". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
estradling75 Posted February 24, 2015 Report Share Posted February 24, 2015 You still seem to think they are commandments because of Health benefits... Every time anyone tries to justify the Word of Wisdom as anything other then a test of "will we obey" they go astray. Just_A_Guy, beefche, Backroads and 2 others 5 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
paracaidista508 Posted February 24, 2015 Report Share Posted February 24, 2015 I dont look at them as commandments. but I do see complete obedience to the WOW as a REQUIREMENT for entry into the Temple.We are asked if we keep the word of wisdom. If one does not use meats and grains prudently and is pretty much a glutton- then they cannot answer truthfully.If I am in an interview for a recommend and the bishop knows for a fact I am a smoker and a drinker he should deny a recommend based on his knowledge even if I say I dont drink and/or smoke.In the same situation, if my bishop knows I am not diabetic and I am slothful, grossly overweight, I always have the DP in my 64OZ Circle K cup, I go for thirds and fourths not only at church functions, but everywhere I go and...I cant make it from the pews to the podium without stopping for a rest I will still get a recommend....even if I lie to him and say yea I live it. He knows I dont and will still sign the recommend.Why? Because we dont want to face the truth when it comes to this issue. It is easy to target the biggies tobacco, alcohol and coffee. The Gluttony? Not so much. Too many people in that category. Anyway--- Such is life. Despite Heart disease being the leading cause of death ion the US, we give one of the biggest contributors (obesity is a major contributor to heart disease) a pass. See below: Figure 3. Age-adjusted death rates for the 10 leading causes of death in 2012: United States, 2011–2012NOTE: Access data table for Figure 3 [PDF - 8 KB].SOURCE: CDC/NCHS, National Vital Statistics System, Mortality. From the Mayo clinic: Causes of cardiovascular diseaseWhile cardiovascular disease can refer to different heart or blood vessel problems, the term is often used to mean damage to your heart or blood vessels by atherosclerosis (ath-ur-o-skluh-ROE-sis), a buildup of fatty plaques in your arteries. Plaque buildup thickens and stiffens artery walls, which can inhibit blood flow through your arteries to your organs and tissues.Atherosclerosis is also the most common cause of cardiovascular disease. It can be caused by correctable problems, such as an unhealthy diet, lack of exercise, being overweight and smoking Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
estradling75 Posted February 24, 2015 Report Share Posted February 24, 2015 I dont look at them as commandments. but I do see complete obedience to the WOW as a REQUIREMENT for entry into the Temple.We are asked if we keep the word of wisdom. If one does not use meats and grains prudently and is pretty much a glutton- then they cannot answer truthfully.If I am in an interview for a recommend and the bishop knows for a fact I am a smoker and a drinker he should deny a recommend based on his knowledge even if I say I dont drink and/or smoke.In the same situation, if my bishop knows I am not diabetic and I am slothful, grossly overweight, I always have the DP in my 64OZ Circle K cup, I go for thirds and fourths not only at church functions, but everywhere I go and...I cant make it from the pews to the podium without stopping for a rest I will still get a recommend....even if I lie to him and say yea I live it. He knows I dont and will still sign the recommend.Why? Because we dont want to face the truth when it comes to this issue. It is easy to target the biggies tobacco, alcohol and coffee. The Gluttony? Not so much. Too many people in that category. Anyway--- Such is life. Despite Heart disease being the leading cause of death ion the US, we give one of the biggest contributors (obesity is a major contributor to heart disease) a pass. See below: Figure 3. Age-adjusted death rates for the 10 leading causes of death in 2012: United States, 2011–2012NOTE: Access data table for Figure 3 [PDF - 8 KB].SOURCE: CDC/NCHS, National Vital Statistics System, Mortality. From the Mayo clinic:Causes of cardiovascular diseaseWhile cardiovascular disease can refer to different heart or blood vessel problems, the term is often used to mean damage to your heart or blood vessels by atherosclerosis (ath-ur-o-skluh-ROE-sis), a buildup of fatty plaques in your arteries. Plaque buildup thickens and stiffens artery walls, which can inhibit blood flow through your arteries to your organs and tissues.Atherosclerosis is also the most common cause of cardiovascular disease. It can be caused by correctable problems, such as an unhealthy diet, lack of exercise, being overweight and smoking Wow... Look at the pride... You pretty much claim that you know better then the Lord/Prophet/Leaders how to run the church on the matter of worthyness Leah and Backroads 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Folk Prophet Posted February 24, 2015 Report Share Posted February 24, 2015 I dont look at them as commandments. but I do see complete obedience to the WOW as a REQUIREMENT for entry into the Temple. Then you are, obviously, wrong. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
notquiteperfect Posted February 24, 2015 Report Share Posted February 24, 2015 (edited) Para - It seems to me that you're using the supposed neglect of enforcing the do's to justify and rationalize your use of the don'ts (opiates, mj). Edited February 24, 2015 by notquiteperfect Leah 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MarginOfError Posted February 24, 2015 Report Share Posted February 24, 2015 Anyway--- Such is life. Despite Heart disease being the leading cause of death ion the US, we give one of the biggest contributors (obesity is a major contributor to heart disease) a pass. See below: Just for awareness, heart disease is the leading cause of death because the heart is usually the first organ to fail in old age. Additionally, all deaths that do not have a clear cause are classified as cardiac deaths, meaning the person died because the heart stopped pumping blood. This is true for people of all weights. It has very little to do with diet and exercise and more to do with how we define death. This isn't to say that there aren't legitimate problems with people obeying some aspects of the word of wisdom. But do keep in mind that proper diet and lifestyle habits are an immensely complex and individualized balance that involve personal body chemistry, self control, chronic conditions, and even choices of hobbies. Very few bishops are qualified to evaluate all of those dimensions on every individual in their stewardship, and any that are qualified are likely to be physicians and nutritionists professionally; to bring that professional perspective into their ecclesiastical responsibilities is rife with professional ethical questions. This is why bishops are only expected to evaluate external, binary states of obedience regarding drug and alcohol use. More importantly, a good bishop isn't going to sit upon the throne of judgment for every member that comes into his office. A good bishop is going to teach and inspire each member to judge him or herself. I won't complain if you want to get on bishops' cases for doing a poor job of that. But if you think the slovenly and gluttonous are getting free passes into the temple, you need to find a way to communicate that to the slovenly and gluttonous. But if you want it to have any kind of impact, you'll need to find a better way to share those feelings than what you've done here. In this thread, you've come across as judgmental and arrogant. If you want to be effective in conveying your message, you'll need to learn to be compassionate and genuinely concerned for the spiritual and physical well being of those around you. classylady, Leah, Backroads and 1 other 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
paracaidista508 Posted February 24, 2015 Report Share Posted February 24, 2015 Wow... Look at the pride... You pretty much claim that you know better then the Lord/Prophet/Leaders how to run the church on the matter of worthynessNope- I dont know better, just simply stating that we are ignoring portions of it. Obviously the Lord isnt, but as a people here on earth we are. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
paracaidista508 Posted February 24, 2015 Report Share Posted February 24, 2015 (edited) Para - It seems to me that you're using the supposed neglect of enforcing the do's to justify and rationalize your use of the don'ts (opiates, mj). I dont have to justify my use of opiates...my war injuries are justification enough due to all the hardware I have had installed to correct the damage (not to mention the incessant pain) and they are prescribed by a Physician. If you go back and read a bit, you will find I mostly avoid their use because they impact my ability to work and function normally without feeling intoxicated or hung over.See post 74 for further details. Edited February 24, 2015 by paracaidista508 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
estradling75 Posted February 24, 2015 Report Share Posted February 24, 2015 Nope- I dont know better, just simply stating that we are ignoring portions of it. Obviously the Lord isnt, but as a people here on earth we are. We... who???... you and the frog in your pocket??? The church is not ignoring it.... The church has it being taught... to the members to the investigators to anyone that asks... It has it been asked every time a member goes for a recommend interview. That makes it pretty self evident that church is not ignoring portions of it. Now there are those who choose not to live it, and those that choose to live just the bits and pieces they like, and those that figure out what the bare minimum they need to do to get what they want. This is not exclusive to the Word of Wisdom but to very commandment given. Its an agency thing... Each individual making a choice on just how much they are going to follow the commands of God. Which is why God sent us here in the first place. Vort 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
omegaseamaster75 Posted February 24, 2015 Share Posted February 24, 2015 (edited) · Hidden by pam, February 24, 2015 - No reason given Hidden by pam, February 24, 2015 - No reason given Wow... Look at the pride... You pretty much claim that you know better then the Lord/Prophet/Leaders how to run the church on the matter of worthyness Snarky reply, not sure you would take the same reply as well as para did....someone might get a warning point out of it Edited February 24, 2015 by omegaseamaster75 Link to comment
paracaidista508 Posted February 24, 2015 Share Posted February 24, 2015 · Hidden by pam, February 24, 2015 - No reason given Hidden by pam, February 24, 2015 - No reason given Snarky reply, not sure you would take the same reply as well as para did....someone might get a warning point out of itIm not offended. Link to comment
paracaidista508 Posted February 24, 2015 Report Share Posted February 24, 2015 You still seem to think they are commandments because of Health benefits... Every time anyone tries to justify the Word of Wisdom as anything other then a test of "will we obey" they go astray. The Word of Wisdom is a law of health revealed by the Lord for the physical and spiritual benefit of His children. On February 27, 1833, as recorded in section 89 of the Doctrine and Covenants, the Lord revealed which foods are good for us to eat and which substances are not good for the human body. He also promised health, protection, knowledge, and wisdom to those who obey the Word of Wisdom. https://www.lds.org/topics/word-of-wisdom?lang=eng lagarthaaz 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
estradling75 Posted February 24, 2015 Report Share Posted February 24, 2015 The Word of Wisdom is a law of health revealed by the Lord for the physical and spiritual benefit of His children. On February 27, 1833, as recorded in section 89 of the Doctrine and Covenants, the Lord revealed which foods are good for us to eat and which substances are not good for the human body. He also promised health, protection, knowledge, and wisdom to those who obey the Word of Wisdom. https://www.lds.org/topics/word-of-wisdom?lang=eng And yet you focus exclusively on the Health side. Not the Protection, not the knowledge, not the wisdom. You have focused on the Fat people and assume that because they are Fat they must not be obey the Word of Wisdom. The Word of Wisdom has several groups. It has the groups that it recommends we use. It has groups where moderation, judgement and skill, and even sparingly, and it has groups that is clearly says no to. Now how does the church respond to these groups? First of all it teaches and encourages all it members to read and study it... That is hardly ignoring it like you claim. Then it tells it leaders to enforce the NOs. Understanding the NOs and if they are being lived is easily. It is a yes or no question with a very simple answer. Therefore it is easy for members and Leaders from all kinds of background to deal with. Then there is is the moderation, judgement and skill group. A short woman less then 100 pounds in weight vs a 6'8" 300+ linebacker are going to have vastly different requirements and level of what is considered moderation, and proper judgement in amount and type of food consumed. It think it is safe to say that the church leadership understands this and understand that its local leaders are very unlikely to have the necessary training to fairly judge in many of these cases. Which would make what you see as a lack of enforcement really the only reasonable route for the church. Unless of course the church wants to hire a nutritionist to go in to every members home, come up with a meal plan and then have the members report on their success with staying on the plan to the bishop as part of being worthy... And I see serious issues with implementing that kind of plan. Backroads, pam and Leah 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
omegaseamaster75 Posted February 24, 2015 Report Share Posted February 24, 2015 (edited) .............................. Edited February 24, 2015 by omegaseamaster75 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Just_A_Guy Posted February 24, 2015 Report Share Posted February 24, 2015 (Moderator hat on for a moment): Folks, it's come up in some now-deleted posts to this thread, so I just want to take a moment and clarify: Please be aware of the site rules generally and, for the purposes of this discussion, Rule 6: 6. Posting issues you have with a moderator or administrator anywhere on the site will not be allowed. Please follow the chain of authority if you have any concerns. Any such posts will be removed and the poster will be subject to the consequences of breaking the rules. Obviously, when the mods are participating in a discussion, there's inevitably going to be some disagreement and that's fine. If you feel a moderator's post is problematic (we do lose our heads sometimes!) you're welcome to report it just as you would any other post, and the full moderating staff will review it. Disagreements with moderator decisions can also be appealed to Pam, if necessary. But public digs like "you're a moderator, you should know better!" are not OK; and those sorts of posts will be deleted without further comment. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kayvex Posted February 25, 2015 Report Share Posted February 25, 2015 I thought this post was about World of Warcraft.... I'll be going now MarginOfError and Jane_Doe 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
paracaidista508 Posted February 25, 2015 Report Share Posted February 25, 2015 (edited) Then you are, obviously, wrong. So when asked if I keep the word of wisdom and i can truthfully answer the big giant four "no" s then I am ok? even if I dont watch my weight, exercise, eat meat sparingly etc??? Even if I dont even try?If I recall correct, the question is do you keep the word of wisdom? I dont remember any itemizing of verse going on. I guess it is my mistake to actually assume it is meant if I kept it in its entirety. I feel so liberated now. Edited February 25, 2015 by paracaidista508 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
paracaidista508 Posted February 25, 2015 Share Posted February 25, 2015 · Hidden by Just_A_Guy, February 26, 2015 - No reason given Hidden by Just_A_Guy, February 26, 2015 - No reason given (Moderator hat on for a moment): Folks, it's come up in some now-deleted posts to this thread, so I just want to take a moment and clarify: Please be aware of the site rules generally and, for the purposes of this discussion, Rule 6: Obviously, when the mods are participating in a discussion, there's inevitably going to be some disagreement and that's fine. If you feel a moderator's post is problematic (we do lose our heads sometimes!) you're welcome to report it just as you would any other post, and the full moderating staff will review it. Disagreements with moderator decisions can also be appealed to Pam, if necessary. But public digs like "you're a moderator, you should know better!" are not OK; and those sorts of posts will be deleted without further comment.well one or more of my posts is gone. What did I write that was in violation??? I assume it is me you are speaking of since my post is gone. Link to comment
classylady Posted February 26, 2015 Report Share Posted February 26, 2015 An observation and not a condemnation of any one person. Why can't we be happy when we see a struggling member that has received their temple recommend rather than be judgmental? We don't need to be perfect in order to receive a temple recommend. There are some requirements, and some of those requirements are minimal. If the temple required perfection from us, none of us would be eligible. I look at our progression here on earth as climbing steps of a ladder. Some of us are on different levels. If you have acquired a further understanding of the Word of Wisdom, or some other doctrine, that particular understanding will put you that much further ahead. We shouldn't belittle those who have not gotten to that point yet. We should be rejoicing they are climbing the ladder with us. Be happy for those who, for whatever reason, may not have the same self-control that you have when it comes to following the Word of Wisdom, but are still eligible for a temple recommend. Be grateful for your own understanding and rather than be dismissive and judgmental, try being loving and rejoice that we are all trying to return to Father in Heaven. lagarthaaz, Latter Days Guy, Leah and 1 other 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Folk Prophet Posted February 26, 2015 Report Share Posted February 26, 2015 (edited) So when asked if I keep the word of wisdom and i can truthfully answer the big giant four "no" s then I am ok? even if I dont watch my weight, exercise, eat meat sparingly etc??? Even if I dont even try?If I recall correct, the question is do you keep the word of wisdom? I dont remember any itemizing of verse going on. I guess it is my mistake to actually assume it is meant if I kept it in its entirety. I feel so liberated now. You are wrong when you say that COMPLETE observance of the Word of Wisdom (particularly according to your interpretation of it) is a REQUIREMENT to enter the temple. This is just untrue. It is not a requirement to eat healthy to enter the temple. That doesn't mean one who disregards observations of health that they should won't answer for it someday -- though we have no idea about that and it is God's business, not ours -- but it is not a requirement to enter the temple, and you saying that you see it that way makes you wrong. Edited February 26, 2015 by The Folk Prophet Backroads 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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