The wandering eyed husband....


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Based on they way I respond to images of women, I find this idea very disturbing. ;)

 

Joking aside, I remember reading a study like that mentioned, where women's pupils dilated and pulse quickened at the sound of a baby's crying, while a man's pupils dilated and pulse quickened at the sight of a woman. Pretty sure the reference was to this or a similar study.

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Lets talk about your husband's defensiveness...  You are basically accusing him of adultery (in his heart if no where else).  Now just image how hurt and defensive you would be if it was your husband accusing you of being adulteress.  Hopefully by pondering that you can gain some empathy for why your husband is acting the way he is.

 

Its also been my experience that most women greatly underestimate the power of the male sex drive.  Its not something that gets turn off or on like a light.  Its something that must be constantly reigned in and controlled.  The good and honorable men in the world will get really good a controlling it, but control is not going to be perfect.  There will be times when thoughts or gaze linger more then it should.  They will correct and stop once they realize it, but it happens.  Thus most guys will feel they can and should do better then they are currently, even if were they are currently is really, really, good.  That can lead to feeling a bit guilty even when rationally they are doing very well.  And feelings of guilt even if irrational can also lead to defensiveness      

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Frankly, I'm appalled at your friends' behavior. What kind of woman reveals to her friends her husband's struggles with something like pornography?

 

This is a betrayal of the marriage covenant, and in my opinion it shows what kind of people your friends are. You should ignore anything they say, and not give their concerns another passing thought. You and your husband are happy. Stay that way.

 

Perhaps a woman who needs a listening ear!  I do see your point though but there's a difference between spreading this info like wildfire and just needing some sympathy and a shoulder to cry on.

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Perhaps a woman who needs a listening ear!  I do see your point though but there's a difference between spreading this info like wildfire and just needing some sympathy and a shoulder to cry on.

 

A wife should never tell anyone else about private marital matters. Exceptions might possibly include a religious leader, in rare circumstances, or even more rarely, a trusted friend for counsel. That is not at all what this sounded like. Just idle chatter and gossip. Stomach-turning.

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Ok, so I am hesitant to say too much here, but my ex husband was cheating (with 5 different women, and yes I found out by checking his phone, for the first time ever in 14 years), and I honestly never saw him eyeing up other women in my presence. I guess he was too busy behind my back.  After helping me through a devastating break up, my friend began to wonder about her own husband. Her husband is a good guy and I have repeatedly told her not to let my husbands appalling behavior affect her great marriage by suspecting him of something he isn't doing.  What I am saying is, don't let other people's problems interfere in your very personal and private marriage. You have no idea what really goes on between a couple, you only know what they want you to know. Have you spoken to your Bishop? maybe he can help or maybe your ward has a couples Councillor service? Don't bottle it up, it won't go away by itself, but be prepared to admit that its maybe you that needs to have a change of feelings not your husband. Wish I could be more helpful. God bless you x

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estradling said it perfectly. You may feel hurt, and I sympathize, but you brought it upon yourself by getting caught up in this paranoid gossip. I love the idea of writing your husband a letter, one he can read in his own time.

 

And, if I may insert a moral, this is just one of many reasons why one shouldn't speak glibly of personal matters. The action can hurt more than just the original subject.

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I don't want to be always checking texts, histories, emails, etc and be that kind of wife. What kind of marriage is that, right?...but I was very happy when I didn't find anything.

 

As someone who has a pornography problem himself, I would note that something our bishop told Just_A_Girl has really helped her a lot.  I can't quote it verbatim; but essentially he told her that the problem was my problem, not hers.  That doesn't mean that it doesn't have implications for us as a couple.  It doesn't mean she shouldn't be worried, or hurt, or concerned.  But it does mean that this is my fight; and I have no right to drag her into a watchdog-type role.  It's not her burden. 

 

Now, that said--we do have internet filters, both on the family computers and a proxy filter on our ISP; and Just_A_Girl gets regular emailed reports.  But, for what it's worth--I think we're at a point where she doesn't usually read those reports very exhaustively; because she can usually tell when I'm relapsing anyways.  The way I treat her and our kids on a day-to-day basis changes--I become more impatient, anger more easily, withdraw from social activity, become indifferent to her and our kids, sleep more, become less proactive at doing household chores, and have a hard time mustering the self-discipline to stop leisure activities (I spend hours on the computer or watching show after show on Netflix).  IMHO, that's the sort of thing you should be paying attention to.  No need to hire a private investigator, as long as he understands your insecurities and the two of you set some ground rules.  :)

 

 My husband says his friends NEVER talk about marriage or issues.... only sports, guns, etc:)

 

That's because we know we'd catch Hades from our wives if they knew we were telling our buddies about our sexual/marital issues. 

 

In my experience it is a hallmark of LDS culture (and, IMHO, a desirable one) that a man never speaks ill of his wife--not to anyone.  Mormon men, on the other hand, are groomed from their youths to tolerate that sort of treatment and never make a peep about it when their wives direct it at them.  (As Joseph Smith supposedly told Jesse Crosby, "If there be humiliation in a man's house, who but the head of that house should or could bear that humiliation?")  But, that's a pet peeve of mine (and Vort's, I think) that is probably saved for a whole other thread.  ;)

Edited by Just_A_Guy
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As someone who has a pornography problem himself, I would note that something our bishop told Just_A_Girl has really helped her a lot.  I can't quote it verbatim; but essentially he told her that the problem was my problem, not hers.  That doesn't mean that it doesn't have implications for us as a couple.  It doesn't mean she shouldn't be worried, or hurt, or concerned.  But it does mean that this is my fight; and I have no right to drag her into a watchdog-type role.  It's not her burden. 

 

I want to be able to see this as his issue and not be "dragged into a watch dog role" but in marriage it really is OUR issue. I have suffered from an eating disorder in the past and we talked about it daily. He helped me, I was open with him about what I had eaten that day, he would check on me daily etc. I feel if 1 person in the marriage is struggling then you both are in the trenches together daily with that burden. I think when we have a mind set of my issue or his issue this gives room for secrets and slip ups in my opinion.  

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I don't disagree with you about marital challenges in general being a joint problem.  But pornography is just so hurtful to the spouse, that I think--on the condition that other resources (groups, accountability partners, possibly therapists) are available--that the less the spouse is thrust into that caretaker role, the better off everyone is.

 

The other thing I would note, with regard to your experience with eating disorders, is that this is something that you yourself recognized; and then you invited your husband to come in and to be a partner with you.  That's an awesome dynamic; but it would be a very different dynamic if you and your husband had never talked about it and one day you just learned, out of the blue, that the reason he's been so great about doing dishes for the last six months is that he's been surreptitiously logging your leftovers with a food scale and a measuring cup.  :)

Edited by Just_A_Guy
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I do feel like I need to pray to be able to give up control of the situation. I feel like I have given everything I can, my part, and I need to not let Satan work on me that I am not enough...that I don't satisfy him so he looks at other women. We are intimate about 5 times a week and it really is a great part of our marriage so it becomes hard for me to understand that after I give so much in that area to have fun and initiate it etc. that he still has the desire to look at other women. I just feel that I deserve to have his whole heart, mind, and his eyes. Is that too much to ask? Maybe it is and I need to let go of control and pray that I can have more compassion and understanding because right now I just don't understand it. 

 

I appreciate being able to talk about it here anonymously to help me not talk about it with friends:)

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It's a woman's nature to talk and process things externally. It's a strong drive to share, and even gossip, with each other. That makes it okay, right?

You are saying this tongue in cheek - -Right??? 

Seriously, NO it is NOT right!  If she is going to a marriage counselor or a therapist, then it is okay to talk about it.

 

To the OP - you either need to stop your girlfriends when they start to divulge Too Much Personal Intimate Info or get rid of them and find new friends who keep their personal stuff to themselves. 

 

Satan works in sly, sneaky ways and he has been pretty darn successful in your life working through your girlfriends. Time to banish him, and the Too Much Info from the {cough, cough} girlfriends. 

 

Try this: Before you and the friends commence with the visiting, you say a prayer and ask Father to banish the adversary, verbally invite the Holy Ghost to be with all of you and ask Father to help you all remember your covenants between Him and your husbands.  See if any mention of porn or cheating is shared after that. If it is, then stop the person immediately and tell her THAT is just way more than I really want to know about you and your hubby. 

 

Now you need to get heavy into reading your scriptures, sharing the same with hubby and living and thinking in ways that INVITE the Holy Ghost, not drive Him out of your life. 

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Tongue-in-cheek, yes. My point being that we all have weaknesses and natural propensities, but just because they're a part of our make-up or just tendencies we have or whatever you want to call them, doesn't mean we're entitled to act on those tendencies.

 

I am really good at being a catty gossip. Scary good. I have to fight myself to control my tongue and my thoughts. Guess what? As I try, I get better at it, the temptation isn't as strong and it's not as hard a battle. My husband is a man with as healthy a sex drive as any. That doesn't mean he gets to let his eyes linger, or to look back again, when he sees a figure his natural man really likes. He's had lots of practice and he's really good at averting his eyes and not letting that first glance go beyond that. 

 

We are all flawed and human. The natural man is an enemy to God. I shouldn't talk about my problems with my husband or gossip about his weaknesses. He shouldn't watch skirts. That's just the way it is for a strong and healthy marriage. 

Edited by Eowyn
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I do feel like I need to pray to be able to give up control of the situation. I feel like I have given everything I can, my part, and I need to not let Satan work on me that I am not enough...that I don't satisfy him so he looks at other women. We are intimate about 5 times a week and it really is a great part of our marriage so it becomes hard for me to understand that after I give so much in that area to have fun and initiate it etc. that he still has the desire to look at other women. I just feel that I deserve to have his whole heart, mind, and his eyes. Is that too much to ask? Maybe it is and I need to let go of control and pray that I can have more compassion and understanding because right now I just don't understand it.

 

It is sad to think that you don't.  He choose you...  He continues to choose you.  Over everyone else that might wander across his sight (or thoughts).  You have him in all the ways that matter.   Just don't take it to the irrational extreme of desiring him to doing the equivalent of not breathing when he is not with you.

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I do agree these private marriage conversations should be kept private but these conversations do not have a gossipy tone....they involve lots of crying, hurt, not knowing what to do or where to go for help. I think what happens is that women can open up to other women easier than another man, even her bishop especially in these types of situations but I know that does not make it right. These conversations have hurt my marriage.....hard to find a balance in being a listening ear for a friend but also keeping in mind that these conversations effect my marriage in a negative way.

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I have one friend with whom I have an agreement that we can go to each other and counsel about our marriages. However, it's done with an understanding that love and respect and desire for growth is the undertone of all of those conversations. What happens in the conversation stays in the conversation. There are also things that are off-limits. My husband's bedroom habits are no one's business but ours, for instance. (I'd be mortified if he told anyone about private things with me.)

Edited by Eowyn
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The thing is - if you FEEL the need to go through his things to do a "gotcha!", the problem is already present and no amount of didn't find a "gotcha" is going to solve the problem... and no amount of "See! I knew it! Gotcha!" is going to help you with your marriage.

 

My ex wife did this to the extent that not finding anything was proof, to her mind, that I was covering something up.

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I do agree these private marriage conversations should be kept private but these conversations do not have a gossipy tone....they involve lots of crying, hurt, not knowing what to do or where to go for help. I think what happens is that women can open up to other women easier than another man, even her bishop especially in these types of situations but I know that does not make it right. These conversations have hurt my marriage.....hard to find a balance in being a listening ear for a friend but also keeping in mind that these conversations effect my marriage in a negative way.

 

My 2 cents. Unless I was in a position which required such counseling (i.e. a Bishop or RS president) I would not participate in such conversations. A wife talking to a friend about her husband's problems is a violation of trust. For these types of issues, if she needs an ear to cry to then it needs to be a Bishop, a counselor, etc. Because you have now been dragged into her marriage problems, every time you see her husband you will think "porn addict!!!". That is not healthy for you or your marriage nor is it healthy for your friends marriage and it shouldn't occur

 

A Bishop and counselors are there b/c they have a gift that when they see someone struggling with a problem they don't see "porn addict!!!" they see a child of God who is struggling and needs helps.

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I read the original post along with some of the replies to my husband and asked his opinion.  He feels that the only time a husband is allowed a double-take when noticing an attractive woman, is if his wife points out the woman to him.

 

I agree with what Eowyn says.  We may have those natural-man weaknesses, but it does not make it okay to indulge.

 

To the OP:  I married a divorced man.  I had a lot of questions that I buried and did not ask for about 25 years.  I knew a lot of stuff that had gone on in his prior marriage because of photos and videos I had seen because we have a transparent marriage.  He had shown me every photo of his past, plus I have scanned them all for my two step-children.  There were some pretty risqué images.  (Those were not given to the step kids).  We know each other's passwords, we read each others emails and Facebook entries.  It's not because we are snooping but because we share most everything with each other.

 

But, I had some unanswered questions that I needed to know, and I was too afraid to ask because I didn't want to rock-the-boat.  It got to the point where it was more important to me to know the truth, even if it would be hurtful, rather than always wondering.  I eventually had a meltdown, and finally asked my husband some really hard questions that I needed to know the answers to.  Of course, my husband was thrown off-guard.  And it had been so long since his divorce he simply couldn't remember everything.  But, he answered everything he could.  And it has helped me tremendously with my insecurities in our marriage.  But, you know what?  If the answers hadn't helped, but were hurtful to me, I would much rather know the truth than live in a fantasy. You know what I mean?  It took me a loooong time to get up the courage to ask.  And, as I said I pretty much had a breakdown before I could ask.  My mental and emotional health needed some questions answered.  I'm grateful I have a husband who was transparent with me and would answer my questions honestly.  Not all the answers were what I wanted to hear, but it still helped so much.  I feel, if you have questions, it should be okay to ask.  But. then, if you're not ready to hear the answers, maybe you should wait?  I would just hate to see you have the emotional breakdown I had.

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To the OP - you either need to stop your girlfriends when they start to divulge Too Much Personal Intimate Info or get rid of them and find new friends who keep their personal stuff to themselves. 

 

Yes. There is a huge difference between spilling it all to one close, trusted friend and airing your dirty laundry at the RS brunch.

 

As for the original topic, I dated an exceptionally beautiful woman shortly after my divorce, and sort of surprised myself when I realized that I looked at other attractive women more.  My thought process was always "Gee, her [insert any single physical attribute here] is as nice as M's."

 

Of course, if I'd ever found one that got a full list and was sane too, I'd have been asking for her name and ring size in the same breath.   :P

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My ex wife did this to the extent that not finding anything was proof, to her mind, that I was covering something up.

 

That's pretty outrageous.  I'm sorry you had to go through that.

 

Reminds me of the supposed quote about Leon Trotsky: "Proof of Trotsky's farsightedness is that none of his predictions have come true yet."

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A man will naturally notice the anatomy of an attractive woman (lust). A woman will naturally notice the nice shirt or hair cut of an attractive man (admire).

 

Out in public I do not have a wandering eye, out of complete respect for my wife I believe that I should never give her a spec of belief that I would lust after another woman, nor would I EVER allow another women think that she would be more desirable to me then my own wife.

 

Through the grace of God and the spiritual lifestyle that LDS members strive to live by I have at times conquered the natural man. Yes there were moments in my life when I could have probably walked through the Playboy Mansion and been disgusted of women being half clothed.

 

unfortunately, ladies and gentlemen....I am still a man and in private I have had sporatic struggles with porn. My wife was taken back when she found out I was looking at porn and never thought I had it in me. Fortunately her trust in me never wavered, she has come to understand my intentions and spirit is strong but my body is sometimes weak. Similar to her craving for chocloate.

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I don't know... I have no illusion whatsoever that I'm the prettiest woman on the planet.  I am completely fine with my husband pointing out a pretty woman to me.  I also have no problem if my husband ever gets commanded by God to take her for a 2nd wife.  What I will have a problem with is if he renege's on our marriage covenant with God... and that I am 100% confident at this point in time that he will never ever ever wish to jeopardize his marriage covenant and his eternal rights as a father to his children.  And that's really all that matters to me.

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