Guest Posted February 11, 2015 Report Share Posted February 11, 2015 I linked that part of the SP's letter on a news thread on Facebook. I cannot believe the hateful comments that followed (not just on my comment, but throughout the thread). My favorite one was where I was told I have no right to judge. . . and then thrown a lot of judgments about being a Mormon and what kind of person that makes me, which is no Christian. I simply asked her if she thought she was showing me how to be a better Christian, and she never responded again. Anyway. People absolutely get blinded by hate and ignorance, and it seems to me that there's a lot more of that from the other side, even though we take all the accusations on the chin as far as that goes. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PolarVortex Posted February 11, 2015 Report Share Posted February 11, 2015 I think you have a good point, classylady. I listened to all of Mr. Dehlin's podcasts up until a year or so ago, with an occasional exception if the guests were nice (like the Givens couple.) Mr. Dehlin is sort of like... well, sort of like Mr. Spock trying to understand the meaning of art by walking endlessly in circles outside an art museum. The doors are wide open, but he chooses not to enter, only to contemplate it logically in one dimension from afar. In fairness, I just went to Mr. Dehlin's web site to get his side of the story, and the web site is down. Unclear what that means. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
slamjet Posted February 11, 2015 Author Report Share Posted February 11, 2015 Could be it's being updated, it hit it's bandwidth max, he took it down, or hey, Blue Host is headquartered in Orem, UT so some exec slammed down the hammer. You can search the Salt Lake Tribune. They've been in contact with him much more than Deseret News. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vort Posted February 11, 2015 Report Share Posted February 11, 2015 I don't know. I'd say that patronizing the Salt Lake Tribune is lending support to an anti-Mormon group. And my tongue is only barely in my cheek. The Folk Prophet 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
slamjet Posted February 11, 2015 Author Report Share Posted February 11, 2015 Yea, I know. But the Tribune and his website are probably going to be somewhat close since they (Tribune) posted some of his columns on their site. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted February 11, 2015 Report Share Posted February 11, 2015 Another one bites the dust in my ward. My best friend this time. It's a very gloomy day today. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
classylady Posted February 11, 2015 Report Share Posted February 11, 2015 Another one bites the dust in my ward. My best friend this time. It's a very gloomy day today. I'm sorry Anatess. That is hard. Jane_Doe 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
carlimac Posted February 11, 2015 Report Share Posted February 11, 2015 (edited) He had a very pivotal part in my brother and his family losing their faith not just in the Church but in God, so I have some definitely feelings about his "work". I'm not avoiding facebook but I'm sure having to avoid saying some things I want to say. My niece is a big fan of his. I'm sure he had something to do with her current crisis of faith. But interestingly, she hasn't said a word about this on facebook. In fact I've only seen one article about this on my facebook feed and about 99% of the comments have been in favor of the excommunication. The only ones complaining about it are put in their place and corrected immediately. They then disappear from the conversation. Edited February 11, 2015 by carlimac Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PolarVortex Posted February 11, 2015 Report Share Posted February 11, 2015 Another one bites the dust in my ward. My best friend this time. It's a very gloomy day today. I'm sorry. Your best friend... has decided to proceed with name removal? And it was directly connected to the Dehlin opera this week? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted February 11, 2015 Report Share Posted February 11, 2015 (edited) I'm sorry. Your best friend... has decided to proceed with name removal? And it was directly connected to the Dehlin opera this week? No, no... sorry... I was referring to the people in my ward that stopped going to church because of the articles on lds.org. The ones that already left are very vocal on FB - posting anti things - and welcoming questioning folks with open arms telling them why they left and giving them validation and all that stuff. One of them even posted an article questioning the existence of a man named Jesus. The problem is... nobody in the Church has the ability to make themselves be welcoming to these questions... they're all just scared to talk about it worried that they might be next or they are going to end up in the middle of debates (those that left can be quite overwhelming with their anti stuff)... I suggested a church activity or some such where we have somebody well-versed in these topics hold a series of classes for those who are interested... hoping that those with questions will come to discuss these things from the Prism of Faith rather than the prism of suspicion. They're going to discuss it on the next ward council. Edited February 11, 2015 by anatess Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PolarVortex Posted February 11, 2015 Report Share Posted February 11, 2015 No, no... sorry... I was referring to the people in my ward that stopped going to church because of the articles on lds.org. OIC. Still not good, but when you said "bite the dust," I assumed the worst. Well, perhaps they will return after they are alone with their thoughts for a while. I hope they'll remain friends with you. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jane_Doe Posted February 11, 2015 Report Share Posted February 11, 2015 I suggested a church activity or some such where we have somebody well-versed in these topics hold a series of classes for those who are interested... hoping that those with questions will come to discuss these things from the Prism of Faith rather than the prism of suspicion. They're going to discuss it on the next ward council. This seems like a marvelous idea. Honestly I'm surprised at the number of people who don't know about stuff like JS polygamy or "Mormons being Gods". I was just slammed with wild-rumors of that stuff growing up, and that was pre-internet days. Backroads 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Backroads Posted February 11, 2015 Report Share Posted February 11, 2015 I also grew up with all the "weird stuff". I think it may be a generational thing as my late grandmother knew all about it and had all the doctrinal books. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
classylady Posted February 11, 2015 Report Share Posted February 11, 2015 Last year, during one of our fifth Sunday combined meetings, the bishop had several knowledgeable people in the ward answer questions that some people struggled with. They were given the question prior to the lesson, and then they researched it and answered it. I can't remember all the questions. But, I do remember one was on Joseph Smith and how he translated the Book of Mormon with specific reference to the hat, etc. Another question was on Joseph Smith's polygamy. I think one question was about the Book of Abraham. It was informative, and done in a manner that was conducive to the Spirit. This was done before the Church published the articles. I think our Bishop is very pro-active in this area, and I appreciate it. Backroads, notquiteperfect and Jane_Doe 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Crypto Posted February 11, 2015 Report Share Posted February 11, 2015 I've had similar suspicions about the people here. For a while I was convinced that everyone here except me was really the same person, just furiously logging in and out with different accounts to create the illusion of crowd chatter.Shhh we don't want people catching onto the conspiracy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Crypto Posted February 11, 2015 Report Share Posted February 11, 2015 (edited) My father converted even after knowing about the anti stuff. When thinking back, growing up I remember being told briefly about various details that some say they were lied about. I wonder if it has to do with while in primary me telling my parents I was going to decode the facsimiles in the BoA because there were sections that didn't have explanations. (and ironically my username is somewhat related to decoding ) Edited February 11, 2015 by Crypto Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
prisonchaplain Posted February 11, 2015 Report Share Posted February 11, 2015 From the outside looking in, I'm noticing that those that are leaving today seem to be doing so because of disagreements over "social issues." They are frustrated at the seeming "backwardness" of the Church, and then look to historic difficulties to justify their leaving. On the other side of the fence, many Protestant churches are seeing departures because the leadership is trying to move their churches away from traditional faith and practice (yes--gay marriage is a huge example). Blackmarch, Jane_Doe, Crypto and 1 other 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MarginOfError Posted February 11, 2015 Report Share Posted February 11, 2015 The problem is... nobody in the Church has the ability to make themselves be welcoming to these questions... they're all just scared to talk about it worried that they might be next or they are going to end up in the middle of debates (those that left can be quite overwhelming with their anti stuff)... I suggested a church activity or some such where we have somebody well-versed in these topics hold a series of classes for those who are interested... hoping that those with questions will come to discuss these things from the Prism of Faith rather than the prism of suspicion. They're going to discuss it on the next ward council. I tried to convince my EQ president to let me lead a lesson on feminism and priesthood last year just before the Kelly disciplinary council. I assured him I would present all sides of the issue. He declined. I was sad. In my ward, there are plenty of people willing to talk about the issues. We dont' even expect or want people to agree with us. We just want people to understand where we're coming from. But the leadership (most, not all) don't want to touch it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Folk Prophet Posted February 11, 2015 Report Share Posted February 11, 2015 (edited) From the outside looking in, I'm noticing that those that are leaving today seem to be doing so because of disagreements over "social issues." They are frustrated at the seeming "backwardness" of the Church, and then look to historic difficulties to justify their leaving. On the other side of the fence, many Protestant churches are seeing departures because the leadership is trying to move their churches away from traditional faith and practice (yes--gay marriage is a huge example). Which is a valid and interesting point. If the LDS church were to, say, give women the priesthood or declare homosexuality not a sin, how many would leave the church over it? Edited February 11, 2015 by The Folk Prophet Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MarginOfError Posted February 11, 2015 Report Share Posted February 11, 2015 As most of you know, I'm pretty vocal about my opinions on these matters, and I've been dismayed at some of the actions taken against Kelly and Dehlin (though I feel more for Kelly than I do Dehlin). That being said, a weekend or two ago, I listened to an NPR interview with Dehlin and he described his decision to stop going to church last summer. He no longer holds callings, no longer attends.... From where I stand, I'm willing to hear you out on what you have to say if you're contributing to the community. If he were teaching, or shoveling the walks, or even just attending and being warm and friendly to the members, I would have no problem with him retaining his membership. But I feel very differently about letting you say some of the things he says as an inside when he isn't contributing to the community. I fully support his freedom to say whatever he wants. But if he's not actually going to act as part of the group, he doesn't get to enjoy being a critical voice from inside the group. PolarVortex, Litzy, Backroads and 2 others 5 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted February 11, 2015 Report Share Posted February 11, 2015 OIC. Still not good, but when you said "bite the dust," I assumed the worst. Well, perhaps they will return after they are alone with their thoughts for a while. I hope they'll remain friends with you. That's not a problem. We're friends because we want to be friends. Not because we want to be the same. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Folk Prophet Posted February 11, 2015 Report Share Posted February 11, 2015 I assured him I would present all sides of the issue. ^ cause. He declined. ^ effect. Note: I'm not making an argument one way or another as to the appropriateness of such an idea (that can be discussed if anyone so desires), but merely pointing out what I see as the obvious. Presenting all sides of an issue is not part of the church's objectives. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted February 11, 2015 Report Share Posted February 11, 2015 An interesting point is that John Dehlin secretly recorded one of his disiplinary councils and released a transcript, despite being told at least twice that it was to be confidential and told it shouldn't be recorded. I read the transcript, and he seemed more concerned with getting the stake president to say certain things than with his standing in the church. It just confirmed what I've always thought about him. Maybe he was a good guy once upon a time, but he's too ensnared by the adversary and blinded by his desire to punish the church for whatever it is he thinks the church needs punishing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vort Posted February 11, 2015 Report Share Posted February 11, 2015 Is that even legal in Utah (or wherever Dehlin is from) to record a meeting secretly? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted February 11, 2015 Report Share Posted February 11, 2015 On another forum, someone expressly laid out how it is not legal. If the SP decided to press charges, he could face misdemeanor charges, and if he makes any money off of releasing the transcript, more than that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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