Attending a Gay Wedding

[Ratbag]

I'm gonna throw my 2 cents in for what it's worth.  I fully understand and support the Church's position in its statement regarding homosexuals and job and housing discrimination.  However, the statement was not an acceptance of homosexuality or homosexual marriage.  I do believe that attending a homosexual wedding is an implied statement (intentional or not) of support for something that is an abomination in the sight of God.  I realize that if it is a homosexual relative getting married, you feel you are supporting the relative, but, again, it still is an implied statement of support for homosexual marriage in general.

 

Sodom and Gomorrah were destroyed, not necessarily because both cities were entirely homosexual; they were not.  It was that homosexuality, along with other gross sexual sins were completely accepted by everyone except for one family.  It was accepted as normal  by everyone.  Remember that sexual sin is the absolute worst thing you can do and still not go to outer darkness.  It is the grossest of sin next to the shedding of innocent blood and denying the Holy Spirit.  Homosexual sex is just as gross a sin as is heterosexual pre or extra marital sex.  Each is just as bad as the other.  I am against a man and woman having an unmarried sexual relationship just as much as I am against homosexuality.  I condemn both just as strongly. (I keep repeating myself, but I can't help it)

 

The Supreme Court has taken up the issue of homosexual marriage.  I have no doubt that it will be upheld in a 5-4 decision making it the law of the land.  As it is, a near supermajority (60%) of Americans believe that homosexuality should be accepted.  When SCOTUS approves it in June, watch out, because I believe it will be the straw that broke the camel's back.  God won't be happy; not just because of the legalizing of homosexual marriage, but because sexual sin (homo and hetero) is so commonly accepted as normal, just as in the days of Sodom and Gomorrah.

 

And if the time comes that the voice of the people doth choose iniquity, then is the time that the judgments of God will come upon you; yea, then is the time he will visit you with great destruction even as he has hitherto visited this land.
(Mosiah 29:27)

 

For as their laws and their governments were established by the voice of the people, and they who chose evil were more numerous than they who chose good, therefore they were ripening for destruction, for the laws had become corrupted.
(Helaman 5:2)

 

[Latter Days Guy]

That is correct about having to have weddings that are open to the public. We also have as I mentioned above civil marriages which are carried out by locally appointed registrars and are not religious at all, purely secular, which those who choose not to have a church wedding can opt for.  Gay marriage in the UK is a civil marriage in that its done from a purely secular standpoint.  So church weddings (not necessarily LDS church weddings) and civil weddings are totally different, other than a few legally prescribed bits which need to be said to make the marriage legal in law.  As I asked above, do you have state enacted civil marriages and if you do, do you view these as being the same as a church wedding where the commitments are made before God instead of before a local government official?

[Latter Days Guy]

Oops, I see someone has answered my question as I was writing my post above!

[carlimac]

I think that comparing attending a gay wedding to watching a loved one commit spiritual suicide isn't quite right. they probably already did that when they entered into a gay relationship. The wedding is simply rubber stamping it.   Chances are pretty great that they have already had sexual relations before the wedding. Observing them holding hands or kissing before the wedding is more likely when you're there to observe the suicide. 

 

I'm not condoning going to the wedding. I think it's a matter of personal choice and the ability to stomach something like that. I don't think better or worse of anyone for attending. But just making a point that many straight weddings are also rubber stamping  the spiritual sickness the individuals have bought into. LDS members walk away from activity in the church, get married to someone outside of the temple to another individual who perhaps has no inclinations to ever join. That is spiritual suicide, too.  

 

So the question might be, is having a homosexual relationship/marriage any worse than apostatizing from the church. Are we being a tad bit hypocritical if we attend one wedding but not the other because of our beliefs?

[The Folk Prophet]

I think that comparing attending a gay wedding to watching a loved one commit spiritual suicide isn't quite right. they probably already did that when they entered into a gay relationship. The wedding is simply rubber stamping it.   Chances are pretty great that they have already had sexual relations before the wedding. Observing them holding hands or kissing before the wedding is more likely when you're there to observe the suicide. 

 

I'm not condoning going to the wedding. I think it's a matter of personal choice and the ability to stomach something like that. I don't think better or worse of anyone for attending. But just making a point that many straight weddings are also rubber stamping  the spiritual sickness the individuals have bought into. LDS members walk away from activity in the church, get married to someone outside of the temple to another individual who perhaps has no inclinations to ever join. That is spiritual suicide, too.  

 

So the question might be, is having a homosexual relationship/marriage any worse than apostatizing from the church. Are we being a tad bit hypocritical if we attend one wedding but not the other because of our beliefs?

 

My wife asked me this same question when I was talking with her about this subject the other day. My response was something along the lines of this:

 

Marriage of a man to a woman is ordained of God and is a good thing, regardless of the other problems in their lives.

 

Gay marriage is not ordained of God and is a bad thing, regardless of other good things in their lives.

 

That being said, there are certainly some straight weddings that I would not attend no matter the relationship I had with those being married.

[Emsters85]

Thank you for your responses. It has given me a lot to think about. I think that overtime, I have become used to my brother's lifesyle- even almost numb to it. He had been thinking about taking his own life for days because he felt it would be easier than telling his family he was gay. I was the first one he told, and he broke down when I told him I still loved him. Eventually it came out, and now it's very public. We have become friends with his boyfriends, and are good friends with his current one. So, naturally I instantly said I would be there when he came forward about getting married. I didn't really think about the rest of it. I figured since he already knows I'm active in the church and knows my stance on marriage, it wouldn't be a big deal.

However, there have been very valid arguments here and my eyes have been opened to understand all sides. I had to ask myself if he REALLY knows my true stance on marriage- or if I even know myself. Of course, I do believe marriage should be between a man and woman, but seeing what my brother has gone through over the years, including bullying (in which one situation was severe and included sexual assault), constant anxiety, and depression, I've "softened" up a lot.

Seeing how my brother chooses to live his life does sadden me. I know he never chose to be gay, but removing his records from the church and living an open homosexual lifestyle was a choice. I know he's never been truly "happy" because of it.

I guess my instant reasoning I said yes was to show I still love him, and he's still not alone. I can't imagine how lonely this journey must be for him.

Anyway, this leaves me with one obvious option: prayer. I'll leave this in the Lord's hands, and I will contemplate everything I've been exposed to here. Thank you for your open thoughts.

[Bini]

What is the church's stance? My brother is openly gay and has been since college. He and his boyfriend are wanting to get married, but he is nervous about inviting LDS family members, which includes most of our immediate family. He has a positive relationship with our parents and the rest of us.

 

If your relationship with him is sound, he'll understand either way, whether you go or not.

 

I would go, but I'm not opposed to same-sex anything, I very much support the LGBT movement in equality to not  be treated any different from any other group of human beings.

[mrmarklin]

I'm shocked at some of the bigotry on this thread.

If I had a gay friend at work (or any work friend for that matter), and he or she were getting married, I would go to the wedding as a friend.

How much closer friend can one have than a brother? The OP should go to the wedding, as he would for a mere friend-to celebrate a life event. How this condones anything else is beyond me.

I've been to many weddings of friends of other religions. Not because I support the religion, but because these people are friends and it's important to support them in what they want if they're not harming others. How are two gay people marrying harming anyone?

I've even been to weddings that were totally secular. So what?

It's obvious that many here have had no contact at all with the gay community. I'm going to give you all a hint: they're just like regular people.

Edited February 27, 2015 by mrmarklin

[Vort]

I'm shocked at some of the bigotry on this thread.

I'm unsurprised at your shock, seeing as how being "shocked" at "homophobia" has been all the rage for the past decade. But you are badly mischaracterizing the arguments and completely glossing over the underlying points of those who have expressed opinions contrary to your own. Before you call names and shout people down, you should at least understand their point.

[The Folk Prophet]

It's obvious that many here have had no contact at all with the gay community.

 

If by this you mean, never been to a gay bar, then yes. If you mean no friends, family members, associates, then get real.

[Guest]

It's obvious that many here have had no contact at all with the gay community. I'm going to give you all a hint: they're just like regular people.

 

 

If by this you mean, never been to a gay bar, then yes. If you mean no friends, family members, associates, then get real.

 

Well... I've been to a gay bar... my husband's best friend (who is my college classmate) is gay... and yeah, they're just like regular people.  I still wouldn't go to his wedding and he is completely okay with it.  He attended my son's baptism birthday party and all the LDS folks treated him and his boyfriend the same as everybody else.

[omegaseamaster75]

Well... I've been to a gay bar... my husband's best friend (who is my college classmate) is gay... and yeah, they're just like regular people.  I still wouldn't go to his wedding and he is completely okay with it.  He attended my son's baptism birthday party and all the LDS folks treated him and his boyfriend the same as everybody else.

You think he would be ok if you didn't attend one of the single most important life events in his life, and he may say that he understands, but I guarantee that he would be hurt by your decision. Who wouldn't be.

 

Vort, yes its called homophobia, I am unsure what the underlying points are, " if I go to a gay wedding I am putting my stamp of approval on gayness" " I can't watch 2 people commit spiritual suicide" I am paraphrasing here. 

 

Go to the wedding, congratulate your brother isn't that what we do at weddings? wish him happiness he is searching for it. 

[Guest]

You think he would be ok if you didn't attend one of the single most important life events in his life, and he may say that he understands, but I guarantee that he would be hurt by your decision. Who wouldn't be.

 

Vort, yes its called homophobia, I am unsure what the underlying points are, " if I go to a gay wedding I am putting my stamp of approval on gayness" " I can't watch 2 people commit spiritual suicide" I am paraphrasing here. 

 

Go to the wedding, congratulate your brother isn't that what we do at weddings? wish him happiness he is searching for it. 

 

We've been friends since we were 16 years old.  He's been my husband's best friend for 17 years.  He'll tell us when his wedding is but he won't send us an invite... I know him that well.  And he would be very worried if he sees us in his wedding - he'll think we left the Mormon church!  But then he never even blinked an eye when we told him he couldn't go to our Temple sealing... he just said - where's the party?  So, I'm fairly sure my husband will just ask him - where's the party? if he ever decides to marry his boyfriend.

 

See that's why he's my husband's best friend - they both give each other freedom to be themselves.  My husband cracks gay jokes and he cracks Mormon jokes...  they would be going to a ball game and he would point out to some cheerleader and say - wife #2... and my husband would say - she'll straighten you up.  And that's just the way it is with them.

[EarlJibbs]

I'm shocked at some of the bigotry on this thread.

If I had a gay friend at work (or any work friend for that matter), and he or she were getting married, I would go to the wedding as a friend.

How much closer friend can one have than a brother? The OP should go to the wedding, as he would for a mere friend-to celebrate a life event. How this condones anything else is beyond me.

I've been to many weddings of friends of other religions. Not because I support the religion, but because these people are friends and it's important to support them in what they want if they're not harming others. How are two gay people marrying harming anyone?

I've even been to weddings that were totally secular. So what?

It's obvious that many here have had no contact at all with the gay community. I'm going to give you all a hint: they're just like regular people.

 

So in the two camps of "Would go" or "Wouldn't go" there have been heartfelt and well thought out responses. I am not sure what thread you have read, but nothing that I have read has been as you have described. The tone of your post seems to fall into the accusational camp of "If you wouldn't go you are a homophobe and a hater" which is false. 

 

As for me? I have already stated that I would attend my brothers under most circumstances. Can you really judge those that have said they wouldn't? Their responses are just as valid. 

[Vort]

 

Vort, yes its called homophobia

Ah, yes. The irrational fear of homosexuals. The very term is a lie, an word invented not to illuminate an issue but to shout down those who disagree with a social position.

 

I am unsure what the underlying points are

It's sad that you are unwilling or unable to read the careful words of others and understand what they're driving at. But your failure to comprehend written English doesn't therefore mean that their arguments are without merit, or that you can simply dismiss them with the contemptuous use of the term "homophobes".

Edited February 27, 2015 by Vort

[bytor2112]

I find homosexuality revolting. Am I a homophobe....I guess. But, I don't wish them any ill will or harm and would never consider being rude or hateful to them.Though if looks could kill, I shot a lesbian couple a look that would have many years ago when they were acting out and I was with my then very young sons. They stopped....

 

We live in a world ripe with iniquity and have become so cowardly that wehave to pretend that same sex marriage is a okay or that homosexual behavior isn't unnatural and all the other classifications that have united with them are somehow something other than mental illness. See Bruce Jenner....

Edited February 28, 2015 by bytor2112

[Just_A_Guy]

The OP should go to the wedding, as he would for a mere friend-to celebrate a life event.

An inherently sinful life event.

Homophobia? Not really. It's not about who the person is; it's about what they're doing.

I doubt you'd go to a sibling's induction ceremony to the KKK, and that would have nothing to do with your supposedly not liking southerners or WASPs.

Edited February 28, 2015 by Just_A_Guy

[omegaseamaster75]

Nice move Bytor, instead of using the moment to teach your young boys about appropriate displays of public affection, and visa vi appropriate relations between a man and a woman. You probably taught them to hate gay people also.

 

I certainly don't think that gay marriage is OK, and homosexual behavior is certainly not natural to me....I can love the sinner and not the sin.

 

You think being gay is a mental illness?

[Just_A_Guy]

You think being gay is a mental illness?

You, a practicing Mormon, think it's healthy--spiritually, emotionally, and psychologically?

Perhaps that's not quite what you meant; but posts that are worded like this suggest to mainstream Mormons that, for all this talk of "compassion", your position is actually rooted in a belief that there's nothing wrong with gay sex.

Edited February 28, 2015 by Just_A_Guy

[omegaseamaster75]

You, a practicing Mormon, think it's healthy--spiritually, emotionally, and psychologically?

Nope, clearly it is not healthy spiritually, emotionally, and psychologically.....I do not recommend being gay to anyone. Who would make the conscious decision to live a life that way?  Certainly if it was a mental illness you would get treatment. I PERSONALLY think that many people are just born that way.  

 

 

That said I do not pretend to know Gods will, I do not pretend to know how his plan for people that suffer with same sex attraction, and I do not know how his judgement will fall upon them. 

[omegaseamaster75]

You, a practicing Mormon, think it's healthy--spiritually, emotionally, and psychologically?

Perhaps that's not quite what you meant; but posts that are worded like this suggest to mainstream Mormons that, for all this talk of "compassion", your position is actually rooted in a belief that there's nothing wrong with gay sex.

Show me were I said that there is nothing wrong with gay sex?

[Just_A_Guy]

Nope, clearly it is not healthy spiritually, emotionally, and psychologically.....I do not recommend being gay to anyone. Who would make the conscious decision to live a life that way?  Certainly if it was a mental illness you would get treatment. I PERSONALLY think that many people are just born that way. 

 

If it's not healthy, then why do you jump all over Bytor for supposedly thinking it's an illness?  The lack of health, by definition, is illness.  An illness is not less of an illness just because it is congenital--or even, in some cases, incurable. 

 

Now, in this case, same-sex attraction may no longer be a clinically defined mental illness (it used to be); but what Bytor said is--by your own definition--true, even if it is also politically incorrect.

 

Show me were I said that there is nothing wrong with gay sex?

 

If an affinity for gay sex (aka "homosexuality") is not an illness, then logic suggests that you don't think there's anything wrong with gay sex itself.

 

But it sounds like you agree that an affinity for gay sex is an illness; so--never mind.

 

 That said I do not pretend to know Gods will, I do not pretend to know how his plan for people that suffer with same sex attraction, and I do not know how his judgement will fall upon them.

 

I agree with you there; but acting on that attraction is clearly not part of that plan and as far as I can see, it's the act that's under discussion.

Edited February 28, 2015 by Just_A_Guy

[omegaseamaster75]

Can you be born with an illness, sure people are born with infirmities all of the time, can you cure them all? some yes, some no. 

 

I fundamentally agree that "Acting" on same sex attraction is contrary to Gods plan. I however am compassionate to the plight of individuals that suffer in this way. I would like for them to find happiness, as best they can in this life. Preferably abstaining from their natural desires and living the gospel of Jesus Christ. If they can't they should not be subjected to a temporal life if misery.

 

by your logic we should take a 50yr step back...

 

let me take the battery out of my car, you bring the jumper cables.......

[Just_A_Guy]

I however am compassionate to the plight of individuals that suffer in this way. I would like for them to find happiness, as best they can in this life. Preferably abstaining from their natural desires and living the gospel of Jesus Christ. If they can't they should not be subjected to a temporal life if misery.

 

Isn't this an argument to approve (whether legally, ecclesiastically, or simply morally) the hiring of prostitutes by straight men who are physically or emotionally incapable of marrying?  After all, it alleviates the "misery" of celibacy.  (I represented a prostitute about a year ago who wanted me to make that very argument to the judge--that she was actually performing a public service for the benefit of lonely old men.  It wouldn't have ended well.)

 

 

by your logic we should take a 50yr step back....

 

Really, Omegaseamaster75?  You're going down that route?

 

Really?

Edited February 28, 2015 by Just_A_Guy

[omegaseamaster75]

The legalization/criminality of prostitution is another subject all together. We clearly don't see eye to eye on this one. That's ok.