Relationship between illness and evil spirits


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What is the relationship, if any, between illnesses, diseases, mental illness and death, and evil spirits?  The modern world and science says that illnesses that once were thought by older cultures and time periods to be caused by evil spirits actually have scientific explanations.  What has been taught by church leaders?  Has anyone done any research into this?  What are your thoughts?

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Maybe sometimes mental disease and possession are mistaken for each other. 

 

But other physical ailments? No. They're just a crappy part of mortality.

 

As I said before, I think there's danger in giving too much attention to evil beings, and I think the idea that they have the power to give our bodies illnesses is giving them credit for more power than they have.  

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Maybe sometimes mental disease and possession are mistaken for each other. 

 

But other physical ailments? No. They're just a crappy part of mortality.

 

As I said before, I think there's danger in giving too much attention to evil beings, and I think the idea that they have the power to give our bodies illnesses is giving them credit for more power than they have.  

 

I find this response to be typical of most LDS.  I don't mean this offensively; it's just that this is what I usually run into when asking this question.  It also is wrong.  It seems that no one does any research and believes the conventional wisdom of the world.  Let me tell you what church leaders had to say on the subject. 

 

The Prophet taught that although not all diseases were caused by evil spirits (HC 2:147), unclean or foul spirits were often responsible for various sicknesses and diseases.  Because our bodies are made from the elements of the earth, they are “subject to the power of the devil” (JD 2:256) and Satan was given limited power over the elements that make up our bodies.(JD 3:277)

 

This is an article from an early Church publication.

 

THE PROPHET ON OLD HOUSES

When the Saints moved to Nauvoo or Commerce, as it was then called, it might be called a deserted town, or partly so at least, as there were many empty houses, mostly built of logs and had stood so long that the mud had fallen from the spaces between them.

 

The Saints just driven from Missouri were glad to get such shelter as those old houses would afford, and they were all soon filled, sometimes two and three families in one house. Some houses had no floors, some no doors. Soon the inmates became sick— sickness increased until Joseph began to be alarmed and saw something very unusual in the new affliction. He looked into the matter as only a Seer and Prophet could look. He saw the trouble and where it came from. Those houses had been dens of iniquity. He instituted means to empty them again by moving the people into tents and doubling up families in better houses. My father's family he took into his own house and tent.

 

I once heard him say concerning houses that had been inhabited by wicked people, that before the Saints moved into them they should be thoroughly cleansed…. Afterward there should be a season of prayer in the house, and it should be dedicated unto the Lord for the use they designed it. 

 

Those old houses had been owned or occupied by wicked, unprincipled men, gamblers, outlaws, licentious robbers, etc., and those that were of the same stamp had met there for evil practices and criminal purposes and there carried on their orgies. While this was the pastime or work of men and women in bodies, disembodied spirits of the same ilk stood around in highest glee and in various ways manifested to one another their enjoyment of the performance of the vilest of sins.

 

When the owners or occupants of the houses were dead, they enjoyed each other's society with their new pals in the spirit state, and when the righteous took possession of their old houses, all combined to kill the new inhabitants, and hence so much sickness—for all evil spirits, whether in the body or out of the body, are opposed to this work and this people, and the spirits in the spirit world have means by which they can affect people on earth, and are as diligent there as here to do good or evil.

 

O. B. Huntington

The Young Woman’s Journal, Vol. 6, No. 1, Oct 1894, Pg. 467

 

 

According to Heber C. Kimball, Joseph Smith’s own child was badly afflicted with an unexplainable illness by Satan.

 

I will relate one circumstance that took place at Far West, in a house that Joseph had purchased, which had been formerly occupied as a public house by some wicked people.  A short time after he got into it, one of his children was taken very sick; he laid his hands upon the child, when it got better; as soon as he went out of doors, the child was taken sick again; he again laid his hands upon it, so that it again recovered.  This occurred several times, when Joseph inquired of the Lord what it all meant; then he had an open vision, and saw the devil in person, who contended with Joseph, face to face, for some time.  He said it was his house, it belonged to him, and Joseph had no right there.  Then Joseph rebuked Satan in the name of the Lord, and he departed and touched the child no more.

Life of Heber C. Kimball, Pg. 270

 

 

Another incident involving the Prophet happened while he was traveling cross country with Bishop Newel K. Whitney.  The bishop was badly injured in an accident and while Joseph was caring for the bishop, Joseph was badly afflicted.

 

At the end of this time the Prophet rose one day from the table, walked to the door and began vomiting frightfully.  Blood and poison came up, and so violent was the retching that his jaw was thrown out of place, and the poison acted so powerfully on him that it loosened his hair.  With his own hands he replaced his jaw and then hurried to Bishop Whitney's bed.  Bishop Whitney laid his hands upon his head and rebuked the evil power that was afflicting him, and instantly he was completely healed.

The Latter Day Prophet: Young People's History of Joseph Smith, Pg. 65

 

Brigham Young also taught extensively on this subject.

 

You will learn that the wicked disembodied spirits have not left this people, though the most of those wicked persons who sought to destroy the Saints have left us. There are myriads of disembodied evil spirits—those who have long ago laid down their bodies here and in the regions round about, among and around us; and they are trying to make us and our children sick, and are trying to destroy us and to tempt us to evil. (JD 6:73) 

 

 

He also taught that Satan “has power to cause affliction and sickness, pain and distress, sorrow, anguish, and disappointment…” (JD 3:95)  The Prophet Joseph said that Satan has power “over death.” (The Seer. Jan 1853, Pg. 44)

 

 Elder Parley P. Pratt went even further on the subject.

 

[Evil] spirits…afflict persons in the flesh, and engender various diseases in the human system.  They…will distract them, throw them into fits, cast them into the water, into the fire, etc.  They will trouble them with dreams, nightmare, hysterics, fever, etc.  They will also deform them in body and in features, by convulsions, cramps, contortions, etc., and will sometimes compel them to utter blasphemies, horrible curses, and even words of other languages.  If permitted, they will often cause death.

 

Some of these spirits cause deafness, others dumbness, etc.

Key to the Science of Theology, Pg. 110

 

 

If you search the History of the Church and the Journal of Discourses, you will find a great deal more than what I've quoted.

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Considering that the germ theory of disease didn't really gain tractioin until the mid to late 19th century, I'm not sure exactly how to interpret the statements of 19th century apostles regarding causes of disease.

 

Considering that most germs are essentially invisible to lay people, and would have been unkown to the average person more than 100-150 years ago, I see no reason to think that the "evil spirits" spoken of by pre-20th century people are not essentially the same thing as "germs" today.

Edited by MrShorty
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Eowyn, on 23 Feb 2015 - 09:07 AM, said:

I'd rather study the words of Christ and how to be more like him than drive the Spirit away with constant focus on dark things.

 

I find this attitude puzzling.  It seems to be a prevailing attitude among the LDS, yet it is contrary to what was taught by early and later church leaders.  Evil spirits are all around us.  The world is jammed full of them and they are responsible for all evil in this world, yet nobody wants to know about them.  I find that many LDS are willfully ignorant regarding some gospel topics that are uncomfortable to them.  They simply ignore the counsel to obtain knowledge.  Why?  Something else I simply do not understand is why nobody does any research into an area that affects every single aspect of their lives.  Christ was constantly casting out evil spirits from people, yet that part of his ministry is ignored.

 

The Prophet Joseph Smith taught that “one great evil is, that men are ignorant of the nature of [evil] spirits; their power,…government, [and] intelligence…, the laws by which they are governed, and the signs by which they may be known….  He further stated that “they possess a power that none but those who have the Priesthood can control….”  He also stated that “a man is saved no faster than he gets knowledge” and added “that if men do not get knowledge, including the knowledge of how to control evil spirits, the latter will have more power than the former, and thus be able to dominate them.”  

 

Brigham Young told the Saints to “learn not only what is in heaven, but what is in hell….”   He also told them they have a “duty” to “study…evil, and its consequences.”   The Prophet Joseph also counseled the saints to “search into and contemplate the darkest abyss.”  Orson F. Whitney continued along this line, saying that with evil spirits, “foreknowledge is power.”  Elder James E. Faust repeated Brigham Young’s statement to study evil and its consequences.  According to his cousin, Elder George A. Smith, Joseph spent more time learning and teaching about the discerning of evil spirits than any other subject. 

 

In any type of war, a good general on a battlefield will study his enemies.  He will gather intelligence on them: their weapons, doctrine, supply and support, composition, communications, chain of command, etc.  He will then formulate a plan to fight back based on this intelligence.  Our enemy is Satan, his angels and subjugated unclean spirits.  We need to know what they are capable of, how they coordinate their activities, the extent and limits of their powers and what weapons they use against us.  This allows us to fight back and make our lives a bit easier.

Edited by Ratbag
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Can you show me canonized doctrine that tells me I should study evil spirits, or that that is the only way to defeat the Adversary? 

 

From the 13th Article of Faith:

If there is anything virtuous, lovely, or of good report or praiseworthy, we seek after these things.

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Can you show me canonized doctrine that tells me I should study evil spirits, or that that is the only way to defeat the Adversary? 

 

 

I thought about how to reply to this, but I get the strong impression that I'm wasting my time.  You ask for “canonized doctrine” before you will gain knowledge of how to control evil spirits for yourself.  No matter that the Prophet Joseph Smith stated that you must gain knowledge of how to control evil spirits or they will control you, you still ask for “canonized doctrine.”  This is the man that “has done more, save Jesus only, for the salvation of men in this world, than any other man that ever lived in it,”(D&C 135:3) the man who established about 98% of Church doctrine, the man that every single apostle or prophet since him has quoted extensively and yet you still question him. 

 

There really isn't anything I can say that will change your mind.  You must gain your own knowledge.  That is doctrine.

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May I add one small thought to this discussion?  Jesus taught that there is no difference between healing and being forgiving of sins.  I also find it interesting that many often express that we are all sinners.  In addition I believe as a scientist that there is an empirical path that witnesses the direction to all things that are true - but we sometimes tend to overlook the obvious.  It seem very possible that the link between unclean spirits and things the bring pain and suffering may be more direct than we realize.  Would you as a reader consider a most unusual story that is rather difficult for me to explain?

 

In days past, my work required me to often travel.  It seemed that after a pressure filled day that when returning to my hotel room that if I turned on the TV to unwind a bit that the channel that came up was often X rated at a bad spot in the story to be watching.  What seemed more odd was that at times the channel required payment in order to be reached.  I was most puzzled that such things would just pop up.  I mentioned this to a fellow member and traveler and he said that often he use to have that very same problem so he would bless his room using his priesthood and cast out any lingering evil spirits.

 

I decided to try this - at first as an experiment.   I have never had this problem reoccur and I am convinced there is something I cannot rap my scientific mind completely around concerning this.  However, I would caution that as Saints of G-d we be very careful what spirits we invite into our homes for our entertainment.  I might also add that if we are willing to see a doctor in the cause for relief - that we consider also a blessing from the elders that are called to watch over the homes and families of the ward.

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I'm not saying I believe this answer, but I can't think of anything that would make it impossible, so maybe it's possible - maybe germs are susceptible and responsive to the powers that control evil spirits, and if that power persuades/tempts germs to infect a person, then that is what happens. Fanciful yes, but also possible. 

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I'm not saying I believe this answer, but I can't think of anything that would make it impossible, so maybe it's possible - maybe germs are susceptible and responsive to the powers that control evil spirits, and if that power persuades/tempts germs to infect a person, then that is what happens. Fanciful yes, but also possible. 

 

Is "germs" the layman's term for "midichlorians"?

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every intelligence is it's own. For another entity to control them it would take energy and effort- it's much easier planting a suggesting than to physically wrest control in part or in whole from a body or bodies.

 

On that thought it would probably be easier for a spirit to influence an individual to go to a habit or a lifestyle that would make them more susceptible to illness or malady.

Edited by Blackmarch
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every intelligence is it's own. For another entity to control them it would take energy and effort- it's much easier planting a suggesting than to physically wrest control in part or in whole from a body or bodies.

 

On that thought it would probably be easier for a spirit to influence an individual to go to a habit or a lifestyle that would make them more susceptible to illness or malady.

 

I think that if an evil spirit, or group of evil spirits can take possession of a person, as occasionally seems to happen, then it would be far easier for them to take control of a few germs, or to influence a group of germs to behave in a certain way. Again, I'm not supporting this idea, I'm just speculating out loud. 

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I think that if an evil spirit, or group of evil spirits can take possession of a person, as occasionally seems to happen, then it would be far easier for them to take control of a few germs, or to influence a group of germs to behave in a certain way. Again, I'm not supporting this idea, I'm just speculating out loud. 

yes it would be easier. but how easy is easier and how hard is harder? that's kind of a big question in this scenario.

Is it like the difference between going to the top of a hill compared to getting to the top of  everest.. or is it easier in the sense that getting to mars is easier than getting to pluto?

Another thing perhaps to think about, we are granted agency to what we are capable of. I'd imagine that all intelligence is granted that to what they are capable of (that would be just). I'd further continue in this speculation that God defends it.

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Not being on this forum for a long time, I think it interesting to come across this conversation as the first one I read. I have to agree that most LDS's don't give credit where credit is due. Christ did drive out evil spirits, even going as far to tell His Apostles that some were so strong they needed to fast and pray before trying to cast them out. I also agree that our adversary has power and the capability to control electronic devices and make them do what most people would call crazy or laugh at. I can't tell you how many times I have been working on genealogy and when it came time to print work or names out the computer would stop working, or just plain go to another site! When sitting in a FHC with others and the computer starts acting up I tell them I truly believe there are gremlins in there, and they laugh. We haven't a chance fighting an enemy when we don't know how powerful their weapons are or even what their weapons are!

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Not being on this forum for a long time, I think it interesting to come across this conversation as the first one I read. I have to agree that most LDS's don't give credit where credit is due. Christ did drive out evil spirits, even going as far to tell His Apostles that some were so strong they needed to fast and pray before trying to cast them out. I also agree that our adversary has power and the capability to control electronic devices and make them do what most people would call crazy or laugh at. I can't tell you how many times I have been working on genealogy and when it came time to print work or names out the computer would stop working, or just plain go to another site! When sitting in a FHC with others and the computer starts acting up I tell them I truly believe there are gremlins in there, and they laugh. We haven't a chance fighting an enemy when we don't know how powerful their weapons are or even what their weapons are!

 

Latter-day Saints are woefully ignorant regarding the capabilities of evil spirits.  This is exactly why Joseph Smith said, “One great evil is, that men are ignorant of the nature of spirits; their power, laws, government, intelligence, etc….” (HC 4:572)  I’ve spent hundreds of hours researching this subject and I’ve found scores of quotes from early and current church leaders.  However, try and talk to the LDS about it and replies range from apathetic to outright hostility. 

 

As I said, there are literally scores and scores of quotes from Joseph Smith to our current prophet talking about evil spirits, however, I find about one in a hundred LDS willing to talk about it.  Why should we talk about it?  Because the Prophet Joseph said that unless we gain knowledge of how to control evil spirits, they will control us.

 

In another place, the Prophet says: "Wicked spirits have their bounds, limits and laws, by which they are governed; and it is very evident that they possess a power that none but those who have the Priesthood can control."

To his declaration that "a man is saved no faster than he gets knowledge," he adds that if men do not get knowledge, including the knowledge of how to control evil spirits, the latter will have more power than the former, and thus be able to dominate them. This is precisely the condition of "the spirits in prison." They are dominated by a power which they cannot control.  They are in Hell, and Satan sways the scepter over his own dominion.

Saturday Night Thoughts

Orson F. Whitney

Pgs. 309-311

 

 

 

You are correct regarding the capabilities of evil spirits in messing up electronics.  There are numerous references to them attacking people.  Heber C. Kimball gave some graphic descriptions from his mission in England and look what Satan did to Job.  He destroyed his home and killed his family.  The LDS seem to forget that or simply ignore it.  He also created snakes from staffs, frogs and blood.  Parley P. Pratt called electricity a “spiritual fluid.” 

As for not having a fighting chance, that is where knowledge comes in.  Orson F. Whitney said that with evil spirits, foreknowledge is power.  Brigham Young told us to study evil and its consequences.  This counsel was quoted by Elder James E. Faust in a talk in general conference.  All you have to do is gain knowledge. 

 

 

I recommend you use the following research sites.  The first one is through Deseret Book and costs $5 a month, but it is worth it.

http://gospelink.com/

The next one is a searchable Journal of Discourses.

http://journalofdiscourses.com/

This next one is through BYU and will let you search every single general conference through key words.

http://www.lds-general-conference.org/

This one is also through BYU, but it will give you key words for the Journal of Discourses.

http://scriptures.byu.edu/

This one will let you download free literally hundreds of magazines and books from the church and early leaders.  In the search engine head all requests with Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints and then the magazine, author or book you want.  Or just type in the church name and watch a thousand or so references come up.

https://archive.org/

Edited by Just_A_Guy
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yes it would be easier. but how easy is easier and how hard is harder? that's kind of a big question in this scenario.

Is it like the difference between going to the top of a hill compared to getting to the top of  everest.. or is it easier in the sense that getting to mars is easier than getting to pluto?

Another thing perhaps to think about, we are granted agency to what we are capable of. I'd imagine that all intelligence is granted that to what they are capable of (that would be just). I'd further continue in this speculation that God defends it.

 

This is a bit of a side track, but your comment makes me reflect on the question of whether, or how much, agency, evil spirits have. They surely have intelligence, but they fought against the idea of having agency. 

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This is a bit of a side track, but your comment makes me reflect on the question of whether, or how much, agency, evil spirits have. They surely have intelligence, but they fought against the idea of having agency. 

 

Remember that there is a difference in origin between devils and unclean spirits.  Early church leaders taught that devils were the one-third that were cast out of heaven.  Unclean spirits are the disembodied spirits of wicked people who died in their sins.  The unclean spirits are compelled to obey Satan.  I have some interesting quotes I found regarding this.

 

This first one is from a church sponsored newspaper called, "The Seer" in reference to Joseph Smith.

 

All the wicked who are entirely overcome by these malicious spirits will have the heavenly principle of love wholly Eradicated from their minds, and they will become angels to these infernal fiends, being captivated by them, and compelled to act as they act. They cannot extricate themselves from their power, nor ward off the fiery darts of their malicious tormentors.

Orson Pratt, The Seer, Vol. 1, October 1853, pg. 156

 

 

This next one is a lesson plan for mutual printed in the Improvement Era in 1919. 

 

A person knew himself to be under the tormenting influence of an evil spirit, from whom he could not obtain release. After three weeks of suffering he sent for the elders of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints. They came, and by the authority of the Priesthood rebuked the spirit of evil and the victim released saw the departing spirit, and said, "How do you like to be cast out?" The angel of torment answered, "I am glad." The man said, "Why, then, have you remained here and tormented me so long?" The answer was, "If you knew the torment I should have been subjected to, had I refused to torment you, you would not ask the question."

Lesson XI—The Higher The Law, The Greater The Liberty, The Lower The Law, The Less The Liberty

Improvement Era, Volume 23, No. 2, Dec 1919, Pg. 165

 

 

This last one is from the Young Woman's Journal and talks about a conversation a person had with an unclean spirit that had possessed him, making him sick until it was cast out.

 

I am about to relate an incident that I have in writing from the brother that experienced the wonderful event, and whom I afterwards met in intimate seclusion, when I received a more minute rehearsal of the event from his own lips. I will copy from the written statement, omitting all real names.

“Having been sick a long time, I sent for President Goodman and Elder Dry—(we will call the gentlemen by these names, for the sake of having names) on the 21st of January, 1889.  They came in the evening and anointed me with oil, laid hands upon me and prayed for me earnestly. They remained with me until late in the evening.  After they had left the house I was for a short time alone.”

The reason why he was alone, as he related to me, his wife went to a neighbor's house close by while the brethren were there, so as not to leave him alone with the baby, but as soon as she was gone the brethren went out.

“And a personage opened the door and entered the room where I was in bed. He began conversation as follows:”

“‘Well, that was a heavy lick we gave you.’”

“I made no reply.  Presently he continued, ‘But it was not quite enough to send you over.’”

“I replied, ‘While you were at it why did you not finish me?’”

“‘We were called on to halt.’”

“I asked, ‘Do you make a practice of minding such calls?’”

“‘We have to,’ was his reply.”

“I said, ‘How is that?’”

“‘You know as well as I do,’ said he.”

“I inquired, ‘In case you should not?’”

“He replied, ‘When called upon by that authority, if we fail to mind, we get so roughly handled that for a time we scarcely know where we are, so we would sooner mind when called on.’”

“I asked, ‘Are you not sorry you were interfered with?’”

“‘No, not at all,’ he replied.”

“‘How is that?’ I asked.”

“He replied, ‘We have so much of the kind to do; it has long since ceased to be a pleasure.’”

“‘Well, then, why do you not quit the business?’”

“‘We cannot,’ was his answer.”

“‘How is that?’ I asked.”

“‘We live under the most despotic government you can conceive of,’ he replied,” and Brother Burgess (we will call him) said to me that he told more about that government than he was willing to repeat.

Well, Brother Burgess said to him, “Notwithstanding all you have told me, your room would be more congenial to me than your company.”

“‘Yes,’ said he, ‘I suppose so.’”

“And he retired by the same way he came in.”

It was related to me that he opened and shut the door as plainly as his wife did a few moments after the spirit retired.

 

Oliver B. Huntington

The Young Woman’s Journal

“Spiritual Experiences”

Volume 6, Number 4, Jan 1895, Pg. 189-190

Paragraph formatting, punctuation, grammar and spelling standardized.

 

 

Unclean spirits willingly help Satan.  Heber C. Kimball had some amazing experiences with evil spirits while on his mission in England.  He was physically attacked on one occasion and had a vision of them in all their fury.  He gave numerous sermons on his experiences.  The following is an excerpt from one of them.

 

 

There were many who did this formerly, and they form part of that hell which brother Wells was talking about.  Although those men and women are dead, they have a good deal of power; their spirits have power over us when we render ourselves subject to them; their spirits are busy at work.  They are diligent in performing the work of destruction and confusion; they go at that work the very moment their spirits leave their bodies.

JD 4:273

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Thank you Ratbag, for the recommended sites. We are all taught by the Spirit truths we are willing and ready to receive. Hence, knowledge and testimoney are gained individually. As we attend the temple we are taught that the Spirit can teach us on a greater and deeper level. In one session I was in I came to think of something that I hadn't ever noticed before. The temple matrons couldn't answer my questions so they told me to talk to the temple president . After speaking with him, he told me no one had ever asked this question and he hadn't ever thought of it before either. He told me that this idea or information was expressly for me and that there was a reason I needed this knowledge and truth in my life. It was to help me in the future in being able to recognize things for what they were. The experience has richly blssed me and given me perspective that others, it seems, don't want to know about. I will use the sites you mentioned and continue to enjoy growing in truth and testimoney!

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I can't tell you how many times I have been working on genealogy and when it came time to print work or names out the computer would stop working, or just plain go to another site! When sitting in a FHC with others and the computer starts acting up...

 

 

I am a computer systems engineer and I can tell you right now that anything with a windows operating system is just plain ole crap, nothing to do with evil spirits. :)

 

the more we educate ourselves and learn about this world the less superstitious we become

 

 

my brother just bought a new samsung phone and he swears that the FBI and the Korean government is spying on him through the phone. I had to go into his apps and turn various things off like location services, mobile hotspot, auto sync, etc...

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