Ayn Rand and Satanism

[prisonchaplain]

Who was it that said, "I give you Ayn Rand with trappings?"  Hint:  He lead the Church of Satan.

 

My conclusion:  Selfishness is Satanism.  Thoughts?

[Guest MormonGator]

Rand would have laughed at the existence on Satan. I'm with her, selfishness is a virtue when used correctly. By acting in our own self interest, we get things done. Yes I'd love for the world to run on kindness, love and charity, but I live in reality and not a dream world.

 

IE-A businessman may have a personality that scares babies and makes women cry. If he doesn't provide someone with what they want, he'll go under. 

 

The opposite is also true. I can be the warmest, cuddliest and friendliest person in the world. But if I don't provide you with a service that people want, I'm gone. My investors don't care if I'm a nice guy. 

 

 

Than, you also have the problem about "greed and selfishness". Only the other person is "greedy or selfish" It's never us. Unless you've turned down a pay raise and refused money when given to you, you don't really have the right to talk about someone elses greed. If someone was married and carrying on an affair, they would correctly be called a hypocrite. However, no one is ever called "hypocritical" for preaching about greed and selfishness but still gleefully accepting paycheck after paycheck and buying nice things. 

 

Just my thoughts. I know it's a controversial topic.  I freely admit I am a fan of Rands. I don't agree with her on everything, but I admire her and enjoy her works. 

Edited February 24, 2015 by MormonGator

[Vort]

From what I have gleaned, having never read Ayn Rand, she teaches many true principles. But they are principles of this world, of what Mormons would call "telestial", not principles of Godliness. There may be some eternal truths there, but they are buried under layers of Humanism that ultimately obscure and twist those truths.

[Guest MormonGator]

From what I have gleaned, having never read Ayn Rand, she teaches many true principles. But they are principles of this world, of what Mormons would call "telestial", not principles of Godliness. There may be some eternal truths there, but they are buried under layers of Humanism that ultimately obscure and twist those truths.

Well said. I'm an Objectivist Mormon. One of the few, the proud, but mainly just the few. 

 

And give her books a shot. One of my closest friends is an arch liberal and disagrees completely with Rand and myself on every single issue. Even he enjoyed some of her books. 

Edited February 24, 2015 by MormonGator

[prisonchaplain]

I dabbled with Rand's Objectivism in my younger years.  Her individualism seems to track well with American rugged individualism.  As a read Atlas Shrugged, I came to realize that Atheism was not just her religion--it permeated her thinking.  The notion of bartering our productiveness for the productiveness of others, and of whole-heartedly pursuing my own desires, pleasures an interests--well, it is Satanism.  Jesus said I must give up my life--die to self--in order to live.  "I must decrease that He may increase."  Rand understood this.  Many American Christians do not, because we have conflated her extreme individualism/materialism with our more general ideas concerning personal responsibility.

 

There are some Christians who are Libertarians.  Doug Bandow has written much for Cato Institute, and is an Evangelical.  Fr. Sirico, founder of Acton Institute, leans Libertarian in his thinking.  However, Randism is rooted too closely to atheism.  Lavay was a clever marketer--but also an honest philosopher.

[Guest MormonGator]

LDS and Objectivism may have more in common than you think. Both philosophies base their views on books. 

 

Let's face it. Atlas Shrugged is also scripture to some people. 

 

[rayhale]

Rand would have laughed at the existence on Satan. I'm with her, selfishness is a virtue when used correctly. By acting in our own self interest, we get things done. Yes I'd love for the world to run on kindness, love and charity, but I live in reality and not a dream world.

 

IE-A businessman may have a personality that scares babies and makes women cry. If he doesn't provide someone with what they want, he'll go under. 

 

The opposite is also true. I can be the warmest, cuddliest and friendliest person in the world. But if I don't provide you with a service that people want, I'm gone. My investors don't care if I'm a nice guy. 

 

 

Than, you also have the problem about "greed and selfishness". Only the other person is "greedy or selfish" It's never us. Unless you've turned down a pay raise and refused money when given to you, you don't really have the right to talk about someone elses greed. If someone was married and carrying on an affair, they would correctly be called a hypocrite. However, no one is ever called "hypocritical" for preaching about greed and selfishness but still gleefully accepting paycheck after paycheck and buying nice things. 

 

Just my thoughts. I know it's a controversial topic.  I freely admit I am a fan of Rands. I don't agree with her on everything, but I admire her and enjoy her works. 

One of my Uncles died, at his funeral, his children told how he had turned down job promotions that required him to move. This is just one example of me hearing of someone turning job promotions, which leads me to wondering if I should think of myself as greedy, and selfish, if I were to accept those promotions in a heartbeat.

[yjacket]

I'm of the opinion that we all act in what we perceive to be in our own best interest-it is merely the the time scale and perspective that is different. Tightly coupled with that is that we are all inherently lazy-i.e. that given 2 choices we will always choose the choice that appears to give us the best results with the least amount of effort, unless we have learned that by choosing the harder choice we might reap greater rewards.

 

The Gospel, IMO teaches us how to look beyond the today, the tomorrow and into the far off future for our perspective and the hope that by obeying certain principles we will end up having a better life, if not here then in the hereafter, than we would have had otherwise.

 

A very quick example of this is that I have children.  Some might say that those who don't have children are selfish. I say they are more appropriately short-sighted.  I can guarantee I'm more selfish.  What is more self-interested than literally having my genetic material passed down from generation to generation.  I want my children to learn from me, to incorporate my learning into their life.  In 200 years, pretty much the only thing that will be left of me is my genetic material in my future generations and hopefully wisdom that I have learned passed down in some fashion to future generations.  That to me is pretty self-interested. Couple that with the many wonderful joys of children, I firmly believe I am much better off than those who don't want to have children . . .as much as they surely believe they are better off than if they had children.

 

I have been taught and firmly believe that what we do in today's life echos into the eternities.  Helping out other people makes me feel good, so I look for opportunities to serve, why b/c I feel good, b/c God has said if we do so we will reap eternal rewards, etc. At some point I do things simply b/c God said so; but the reason why I do it b/c He said so is b/c I have ultimate trust that He will never direct me to do something that is contrary to my ultimate well-being.

 

So I don't see it as being greedy or selfish to take promotions or not to; it is more a decision of "am I being short-sighted or do I have a long-term perspective".  A large number of sins can be categorized as short-term pleasure that brings long-term pain.

[prisonchaplain]

BTW, the answer to my OP is ANTON LEVAY.

[NeuroTypical]

From what I understand, "satanists" come in a couple flavors. At one end, you get people big (for whatever reason) on ritual and symbolism, often driven by a need or desire to intentionally tick off Christians or strike back at the concept of Jesus.  Lots of rebellious kids on this end.  At the other end, you get folks presenting a reasoned position, an actual philosophy to follow.

 

I haven't really looked into it much, but from what I'm told, a good way to sum up the satanist philosophy is "I don't care if you want to be good or not, just make sure you get paid".  They seem to reject selflessness and charity, as well as the concept of worshiping a superior being, on principle.

 

I can see why Ayn Rand would appeal to them.

[Blackmarch]

Who was it that said, "I give you Ayn Rand with trappings?"  Hint:  He lead the Church of Satan.

 

My conclusion:  Selfishness is Satanism.  Thoughts?

Bullseye.