temple ritual and Freemasonry


dahlia
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I just got 'Joseph's Temples: The Dynamic Relationship between Freemasonry and Mormonism.'  I have read about Freemasonry ritual and see the connections, so I thought this would be a good read since it brings Mormonism and Freemasonry together.

 

My question is this:  I don't care if the Freemason ritual was adapted by Joseph Smith. He was a man of his time and he used what he knew. No problem. I don't think any less of him. However, it seems that when you mention this connection around born Mormons, they get a  little freaked out.

 

Why is this? There's nothing really hidden about this - you can easily find books on the topic, just as I did. Could they have gone their whole lives thinking Smith made this stuff from whole cloth? Is it shocking? I've read that some Mormons get weirded out after they go to the temple the first time, because they aren't used to ritual (compared to Catholics or Orthodox Jews, for example) and they don't know how to deal with it. Is an inability to deal with where temple ritual probably originated part of the same problem? 

 

I find it all very interesting and love learning about Mormon history, but sometimes it seems that the western Mormons aren't told a lot about history, then when they learn it, they lose their testimony or become less active because they think they were lied to.

 

I'm not knocking anyone; I'm just curious about something I've noticed.

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I have always noticed the same...Mormons being weirded out over Masons. Several years ago I was pondering of becoming a Mason. My wife was really upset over my thinking about this and the thought of becoming one. I know several Mormons who are Masons. I felt like my wife just had misunderstandings about them. I have tried over the years to point out how her thinking is incorrect ....I have not succeeded in changing her mind.

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People make all sorts of assumptions about things, and even when those assumptions are unfounded they still cling to them. So they assume e.g. that organic evolution and revealed truth are incompatible, then insist on rejecting any hint of organic evolution based on this potentially faulty assumption. This becomes tragic when e.g. they find out that organic evolution is greatly supported by mountains of evidence and observation, and they therefore decide not that their dichotomy was false, but that the gospel must be untrue based on that dichotomy.

 

Similarly, many Latter-day Saints assume that either Joseph Smith received the endowment straight from heaven or else he stole it from the Masons. This is made more urgent when the historical bias against the Masons as a secret and therefore evil society is considered. Many Mormons have taken a third path that attempts to split the difference, maintaining that Joseph Smith received the endowment presentation from God and that the Masons kept it from countless generations of having it handed down to them from original masons who worked on Solomon's Temple. This idea of generational survival of the temple ceremony appears to be a false and spurious story invented by the Masons themselves, however, so that "middle path" doesn't really work.

 

I don't know what to think of all that, to tell the truth. I just know that I receive great comfort and insight from the presentation of the endowment, even though it's somewhat different (and in a few seemingly important ways) from the endowment presentation I originally received. Whatever its historical genesis, I do very firmly believe it is of divine origin.

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This idea of generational survival of the temple ceremony appears to be a false and spurious story invented by the Masons themselves, however, so that "middle path" doesn't really work.

 

I would be interested in hearing more on this (or having it sourced to read on my own) as the handed-down theory has sort of been my go to understanding of it (in as much as I even care...which I don't, that much, really care where the endowment comes from, because, as you have stated, I believe it is of divine origin regardless).

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Why do many Mormons don't know church history that well?  For starters, there's no Church History course taught in Sunday School.  Even the D&C courses aren't history courses: they're lessons on doctrine and bringing people to Christ, with the occasional historical backdrop.  And seeing as Mormons are people, and most people don't go researching history in their spare time, most Mormons don't research church history.

 

In my opinion, many Mormons (particularly BIC) do get a overly-glossy outlook on figures in church history.  This happens anytime people don't study history (like people over idolizing Thomas Jefferson).  Then when they discover that history is a mess, and Mr-Awesome messed up at points, they freak out and dig their heads in the sand.  Again, this isn't just a church thing-- like try telling someone that the author of the Constitution owned slaves, some of which were his illegitimate children!

 

As to the masons specifically, I'm with you, thinking that JS was inspired by the things around him.  And I'm ok with that (Netflix inspires me all the time).  My thoughts are that God can use any item/person/routine as a vessel for His message: wether that be a burning bush, talking donkey, doves, masons, or Netflix.   However, other Mormons are of different opinions (which is their right).  

 

One thing which does irk me (and many Mormons) about the mason thing is when some anti-Mormon comes up to me and says "Jo Smith wasn't a prophet- he just stole it all from the masons!"  I highly disagree with such sediments and get sick of having them screamed at me.

Edited by Jane_Doe
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I agree with Jane about members that do not understand history.

 

I think there is more.  The Temple ceremonies-Free Mason connection is a common anti attack vector.

 

Antis are quite skilled at taking truths and spinning them into lies.  And then presenting them as TRUTH.   Many members when presented with such spin are going to recognize it as a lie but they might not have the skills to figure out WHY it is a lie.

 

So they reject everything presented as a lie.  It gets them through that moment, but it really only delays things.  In time they will be presented the facts again, next time maybe from a source they trust...  But then simple rejection is the tool then know so they will keep using it.  And if they can't then they might have a crisis of faith.

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the correlation between freemasonry symbols and Mormon symbolism  is shocking. Just look at the Nauvoo Temple of the Salt lake temple. 

 

Like many have stated, Most people don't study their history and are uninformed. The truth hits them hard. 

 

The truth of the fullness of the gospel, was spread out, a little here and a little there, and a little to be revealed to JS. Bits and pieces of truth scattered about and lost during years of darkness. JS brought it all together for us.

Edited by omegaseamaster75
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I would be interested in hearing more on this (or having it sourced to read on my own) as the handed-down theory has sort of been my go to understanding of it (in as much as I even care...which I don't, that much, really care where the endowment comes from, because, as you have stated, I believe it is of divine origin regardless).

Sorry, I have no information to provide. Just regurgitating what I have learned from other sources, without even being able to provide those sources.

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Many important elements of the gospel were known, taught and practised by many different organisations, mostly Protestant churches, usually in an incomplete and corrupted form, prior to the full restoration of the Gospel beginning in 1820. These practices and teachings had been around in one form or another since at least the time of Christ. I don't see why its hard to believe that the practices of Masons could fall into this same category. The idea that they date back to the building of Solomon's temple seems to be a bit hard to swallow, but I can see that they could date back to the building of the great Cathedrals in Europe during the renaissance. Perhaps they date back to the same period, and have the same roots, as that period of religious upheaval and the moving of the Spirit on certain key individuals when the bible first started to be made available to the ordinary people.

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the correlation between freemasonry symbols and Mormon symbolism  is shocking.

 

Shocking to who? Not to me. Shock is a relative thing, more related to the receiver of information than to the information itself. I think it a bit misleading to imply the correlation itself is "shocking", and the emotive language is probably deceptive.

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I haven't studied Free Masonry or the history of the Temple Endowment but is it not possible that Free Masonry is Satan's counterfeit since he has one for everything?  Just something to consider.

 

The trouble with this notion is that Joseph Smith himself was a Mason--so were a number of other early Church leaders.  The reason Masonry fell out of fashion with the Church, as I understand it, was because Masonic lodges back east were affronted that Mormonism had "poached" some of their rites, and for some time refused to grant a dispensation for the organization of a new lodge in Utah.

 

In fact, such notables as John Taylor, Heber Kimball, and Zina Diantha Huntington all later wrote that Joseph Smith's last words ("Oh Lord, my God") were in fact an attempt to raise the Masonic "grand hailing sign of distress"--a key phrase ("Oh Lord, my God--Is there no help for the widow's son?") that supposedly requires any Masons in the vicinity to provide immediate assistance to the utterer. 

Edited by Just_A_Guy
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I just got 'Joseph's Temples: The Dynamic Relationship between Freemasonry and Mormonism.'  I have read about Freemasonry ritual and see the connections, so I thought this would be a good read since it brings Mormonism and Freemasonry together.

 

My question is this:  I don't care if the Freemason ritual was adapted by Joseph Smith. He was a man of his time and he used what he knew. No problem. I don't think any less of him. However, it seems that when you mention this connection around born Mormons, they get a  little freaked out.

 

Why is this? There's nothing really hidden about this - you can easily find books on the topic, just as I did. Could they have gone their whole lives thinking Smith made this stuff from whole cloth? Is it shocking? I've read that some Mormons get weirded out after they go to the temple the first time, because they aren't used to ritual (compared to Catholics or Orthodox Jews, for example) and they don't know how to deal with it. Is an inability to deal with where temple ritual probably originated part of the same problem? 

 

I find it all very interesting and love learning about Mormon history, but sometimes it seems that the western Mormons aren't told a lot about history, then when they learn it, they lose their testimony or become less active because they think they were lied to.

 

I'm not knocking anyone; I'm just curious about something I've noticed.

 

I am a borne under the covenant 5th generation "Mormon".  There are many things that have evolved during my life time - including my own understanding of key doctrines of the restoration in relation to the temple, the priesthood an other things.  Some of these evolutionary changes Dahila, we has discussed on this forum.   As we progress in understanding we need to change our outlook and understanding of both G-d and our fellow man.  If we are not evolving and changing such understanding we are not really making any progress.

 

As with almost all things of change or progress there are individuals at different places of their evolution.  Very big steps of evolution are categorically more difficult to go through and maintain much sanity.   It is best to use the scripture suggested method of line upon line upon line and precept upon precept upon precept.  Sometimes it is frustrating to those, like yourself that progress more rapidly than others over their difficulty adjusting or with others that seem to breeze past things you may think should require more pondering, exploring and thought. 

 

For myself I have to logically deal with each step forward and rhetorically place each step in places I understand - my wife, on the other hand breezes over such things and chides me for thinking too much before I accept and act.  I personally appreciate both approaches.  It is interesting that my wife is from a first generation family that was converted just before her birth.  It may be that the closer we are to the transition of conversion the more pleasing and comfortable we find the adjustment of significant rapid change in our life.  For this reason alone - I love reading your posts and views.

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Shocking to who? Not to me. Shock is a relative thing, more related to the receiver of information than to the information itself. I think it a bit misleading to imply the correlation itself is "shocking", and the emotive language is probably deceptive.

Shocking to the unprepared. This includes most members....

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I just got 'Joseph's Temples: The Dynamic Relationship between Freemasonry and Mormonism.'  I have read about Freemasonry ritual and see the connections, so I thought this would be a good read since it brings Mormonism and Freemasonry together.

 

My question is this:  I don't care if the Freemason ritual was adapted by Joseph Smith. He was a man of his time and he used what he knew. No problem. I don't think any less of him. However, it seems that when you mention this connection around born Mormons, they get a  little freaked out.

 

Why is this? There's nothing really hidden about this - you can easily find books on the topic, just as I did. Could they have gone their whole lives thinking Smith made this stuff from whole cloth? Is it shocking? I've read that some Mormons get weirded out after they go to the temple the first time, because they aren't used to ritual (compared to Catholics or Orthodox Jews, for example) and they don't know how to deal with it. Is an inability to deal with where temple ritual probably originated part of the same problem? 

 

I find it all very interesting and love learning about Mormon history, but sometimes it seems that the western Mormons aren't told a lot about history, then when they learn it, they lose their testimony or become less active because they think they were lied to.

 

I'm not knocking anyone; I'm just curious about something I've noticed.

well i'd wager for direct discussion on the symbols that are used in the temple tends to be avoided due the commandment to respect their sacredness. That would probably be my first guess as to why its really not discussed outside the temple- especially if someone didn't have a clear idea where the line was (one reason i really applaud that temple garments video released recently).

Now the other reason probably is because it is a daunting task, there is tons and tons of history, and for every fact you get, there is tons of misinformation (either deliberate, accidental, or the results of gaps of info). Setting aside only 3 hours a week to teach Christ, and duties to christ, really restricts how much you can do so what you get is a lot of bits that are really relevant to whatever principle is being taught, and it's up to the teacher to try to get it across in the best way they can. and it also tends to restrict things to wahts most important- as a consequence theres tons of really interesting and good info that does not make it into the classroom. (tell you tho having someone who has done their homework and knows their history, as well as the ability to illistrate the causes and effects of whatever principle [or lack there-of] can really help drive it home)

Modern mormons are quite likely do find the temple to be rather unsettling compared to jewish, catholic or muslim converts, because really the only symbolic teaching we have outside the temple is baptism, prayer, and the sacrament.- while prayer is very very very common people don't really think about it, but baptism and sacrament is just a really tiny taste of what's to come and pretty much not much else to prepare someone for the flood of symbolism that is the temple. This is further compounded by american society- americans are very sarcastic and doubtful and because of our academic system we have totally different perceptions on how to interact, learn, proggress, and expect (compared to a Jew for example)

As for the symbols used in the temple i've seen them pop up in freemasonry (thats widest known) ancient christians, jews/israelites, native americans, and ancient egyptians. needless to say they've been around for a while in some form or another, altho the meaning behind them varies a bit.

Edited by Blackmarch
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I had read about the Free Masons a while back and recently watched a short documentary about it. Many of the men that founded the United States were free masons. One of the AZ airports has the symbol of the Free Masons in it. Many monuments in DC are linked and are in correlation to them.

 

One suggestion is that the acts of the Free Masons goes back to Solomon's Temple. If that is true, it may make sense as to why Joseph was directed to include many aspects into the temple. 

 

I showed my wide the documentary and she was wide eyed for a moment, but got over it quickly. I am actually fascinated by it. 

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There are a lot of prejudices and misinformation from the outside on any group and certainly the Masons have suffered much of that.

But I don't think the Masons have ever had any evidence shown against them.  They are very much like the many other social beneficial groups out there, Elks, Moose, etc., tho' I believe they do emphasize charitable work in their communities more.

Certainly Catholicism is dogmatic ritual. 

dc

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  • 2 weeks later...

I just got 'Joseph's Temples: The Dynamic Relationship between Freemasonry and Mormonism.'  I have read about Freemasonry ritual and see the connections, so I thought this would be a good read since it brings Mormonism and Freemasonry together.

 

My question is this:  I don't care if the Freemason ritual was adapted by Joseph Smith. He was a man of his time and he used what he knew. No problem. I don't think any less of him. However, it seems that when you mention this connection around born Mormons, they get a  little freaked out.

 

Why is this? There's nothing really hidden about this - you can easily find books on the topic, just as I did. Could they have gone their whole lives thinking Smith made this stuff from whole cloth? Is it shocking? I've read that some Mormons get weirded out after they go to the temple the first time, because they aren't used to ritual (compared to Catholics or Orthodox Jews, for example) and they don't know how to deal with it. Is an inability to deal with where temple ritual probably originated part of the same problem? 

 

I find it all very interesting and love learning about Mormon history, but sometimes it seems that the western Mormons aren't told a lot about history, then when they learn it, they lose their testimony or become less active because they think they were lied to.

 

I'm not knocking anyone; I'm just curious about something I've noticed.

 

Personally, it doesn't bother me at all. Joseph was a restorer, and Freemasonry claims to have its origins dating back to the temple of Solomon and even further back than that. Naturally, Joseph and others would be attracted to this, and I believe it was meant to be that he discover the things in Freemasonry that were true and right, and also use it as a catalyst for the rest of the inspiration he received. My personal opinion is that Freemasonry, in its various forms through the ages, has done a great service to mankind by attempting to preserve such sacred things through the ages. There really isn't an issue.

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