So When is This Supposed to Happen?


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"He who suffered so selflessly for us in the garden and on the cross will not leave us comfortless now. He will strengthen, encourage, and bless us. He will encircle us in His gentle arms. He will be more than an angel to us."

 

Is there a waiting list to be on or am I to be registered somewhere?  To me, this proves that HF & JC have their favorites.

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I think the idea of favorites shows a lack of understanding the Lord's perspective.

 

Read the following parable from the D&C 88

 

 51 Behold, I will liken these kingdoms unto a man having a field, and he sent forth his servants into the field to dig in the field.

 52 And he said unto the first: Go ye and labor in the field, and in the first hour I will come unto you, and ye shall behold the joy of my countenance.

 53 And he said unto the second: Go ye also into the field, and in the second hour I will visit you with the joy of my countenance.

 54 And also unto the third, saying: I will visit you;

 55 And unto the fourth, and so on unto the twelfth.

 56 And the lord of the field went unto the first in the first hour, and tarried with him all that hour, and he was made glad with the light of the countenance of his lord.

 57 And then he withdrew from the first that he might visit the second also, and the third, and the fourth, and so on unto the twelfth.

 58 And thus they all received the light of the countenance of their lord, every man in his hour, and in his time, and in his season—

 59 Beginning at the first, and so on unto the last, and from the last unto the first, and from the first unto the last;

 60 Every man in his own order, until his hour was finished, even according as his lord had commanded him, that his lord might be glorified in him, and he in his lord, that they all might be glorified.

 61 Therefore, unto this parable I will liken all these kingdoms, and the inhabitants thereof—every kingdom in its hour, and in its time, and in its season, even according to the decree which God hath made.

 

 

I can understand someone who might be scheduled for the 11th hour seeing the Lord going to others and being frustrated or even jealous.  But then that is what faith is all about.  Trusting that the Lord will make good on his promises. 

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It is about the 'broken heart and contrite spirit'. We must first put ourselves in the proper place. One must release oneself of all pride and surrender.

 

That is more than a group of soundbites. If you think it is, you may need to read it again.

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"He who suffered so selflessly for us in the garden and on the cross will not leave us comfortless now. He will strengthen, encourage, and bless us. He will encircle us in His gentle arms. He will be more than an angel to us."
 
Is there a waiting list to be on or am I to be registered somewhere?  To me, this proves that HF & JC have their favorites.

 

this is short sighted, look at your life and the what you control. Make good decisions and he will be there

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"He who suffered so selflessly for us in the garden and on the cross will not leave us comfortless now. He will strengthen, encourage, and bless us. He will encircle us in His gentle arms. He will be more than an angel to us."
 
Is there a waiting list to be on or am I to be registered somewhere?  To me, this proves that HF & JC have their favorites.

In a purely functional sense, God does have favorites. God's favorites are those who hear his voice and follow his commandments. Do you want to be God's favorite? Then listen to his voice and follow his example.

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In a purely functional sense, God does have favorites. God's favorites are those who hear his voice and follow his commandments. Do you want to be God's favorite? Then listen to his voice and follow his example.

 

Elder Bednar puts it a different way. 
I testify that the tender mercies of the Lord are available to all of us and that the Redeemer of Israel is eager to bestow such gifts upon us.
 
To be or to become chosen is not an exclusive status conferred upon us. Rather, you and I ultimately determine if we are chosen. Please now note the use of the word chosen in the following verses from the Doctrine and Covenants:
 
“Behold, there are many called, but few are chosen. And why are they not chosen?
 
“Because their hearts are set so much upon the things of this world, and aspire to the honors of men” (D&C 121:34–35; emphasis added).
 
I believe the implication of these verses is quite straightforward. God does not have a list of favorites to which we must hope our names will someday be added. He does not limit “the chosen” to a restricted few. Rather, it is our hearts and our aspirations and our obedience which definitively determine whether we are counted as one of God’s chosen.

 

 
The Tender Mercies of the Lord ~ David A. Bednar
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"He who suffered so selflessly for us in the garden and on the cross will not leave us comfortless now. He will strengthen, encourage, and bless us. He will encircle us in His gentle arms. He will be more than an angel to us."
 
Is there a waiting list to be on or am I to be registered somewhere?  To me, this proves that HF & JC have their favorites.

 

This poem may help:

 

 

One night I dreamed I was walking along the beach with the Lord.

Many scenes from my life flashed across the sky.

In each scene I noticed footprints in the sand.

Sometimes there were two sets of footprints,

other times there were one set of footprints.

This bothered me because I noticed

that during the low periods of my life,

when I was suffering from

anguish, sorrow or defeat,

I could see only one set of footprints.

So I said to the Lord,

"You promised me Lord,

that if I followed you,

you would walk with me always.

 

But I have noticed that during

the most trying periods of my life

there have only been one

set of footprints in the sand

Why, when I needed you most,

you have not been there for me?"

The Lord replied,

"The times when you have

seen only one set of footprints,

is when I carried you."

     

By Mary Stevenson

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Hard times seem to drag on sometimes, don't they? I keep waiting for the tide to change for me and my family, but we've had 4 steady years of things getting seemingly worse. Or harder, anyway. Sometimes I just get tired. It can be hard to hold on to faith, but I think those times are the most important to endure and hold on. They are the times that we really show our mettle.I know when I read things like this when I'm really down:

 

 

He will strengthen, encourage, and bless us. 

  I sometimes want to ask the same question: where is my relief? Where is the promised strength? But the truth is, that strength is often just the strength to get out of bed, get dressed, and do what needs to be done. Maybe it's that your family is healthy so that you don't have to deal with one more thing. Maybe it's that your car keeps running or your heater keeps heating or your patience stretches a little farther than it otherwise would. You might not feel strong, but you are being sustained.

 

I always try to remember when times are hard that they won't be hard forever, and when times are good, they won't be good forever. Hang in there, brother. 

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Hard times seem to drag on sometimes, don't they? I keep waiting for the tide to change for me and my family, but we've had 4 steady years of things getting seemingly worse. Or harder, anyway. Sometimes I just get tired. It can be hard to hold on to faith, but I think those times are the most important to endure and hold on. They are the times that we really show our mettle.I know when I read things like this when I'm really down:

  I sometimes want to ask the same question: where is my relief? Where is the promised strength? But the truth is, that strength is often just the strength to get out of bed, get dressed, and do what needs to be done. Maybe it's that your family is healthy so that you don't have to deal with one more thing. Maybe it's that your car keeps running or your heater keeps heating or your patience stretches a little farther than it otherwise would. You might not feel strong, but you are being sustained.

 

I always try to remember when times are hard that they won't be hard forever, and when times are good, they won't be good forever. Hang in there, brother. 

 

Please do not get upset with my attempt to respond and please understand that I am not trying to put anyone down - but mostly I believe our difficulties or only difficult because we make them so - or as Shakespeare said - "Nothing is as good or bad as it seems only that thinking makes it so."

 

Recently I was on vacation with my wife visiting popular tourist tropical islands.  One particular island depended 100% economically on tourist.  Most of the population was so poor it caused me pain just greeting and conversing with them.  Many were dependent for being able to eat that day by being able to sell to me and other tourist cheep junk made in China.  Junk that if I had I would pay to get rid of.  And there are so many trying to sell the cheep junk that I have not sufficient to help enough those in need.

 

No matter how difficult I find myself - it seems to me that G-d shows me countless others in greater need and it seems my greatest sorrow is no longer myself but so many others so much in greater need and with so much less hope I cannot justify tears for myself.   So many times I have found myself in hopeless condition but with a caring friend or family to stand with help by me.  I rejoice in being able to give encouragement of help to others and I as so grateful to add my mite to the great assistance the LDS church takes throughout the world.  But I pain to see others in such numbers that I cannot help - and I am ashamed that I can visit their island and bring so little assistance and then to realize that most of the world lives so.

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"He who suffered so selflessly for us in the garden and on the cross will not leave us comfortless now. He will strengthen, encourage, and bless us. He will encircle us in His gentle arms. He will be more than an angel to us."
 
Is there a waiting list to be on or am I to be registered somewhere?  To me, this proves that HF & JC have their favorites.

 

 

This happens when receiving the Second Comforter. Ask and ye shall receive. Seek and ye shall find. Knock and it shall be opened

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This happens when receiving the Second Comforter. Ask and ye shall receive. Seek and ye shall find. Knock and it shall be opened

 

I find the idea that Christ will leave us comfortless until we qualify to receive the Second Comforter a bit....what's a nicer way to put this than all the words coming to mind? ....I find it a bit...um...a bit....

 

Well...fill in a word that isn't too offensive that means what I mean to mean.

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I find the idea that Christ will leave us comfortless until we qualify to receive the Second Comforter a bit....what's a nicer way to put this than all the words coming to mind? ....I find it a bit...um...a bit....

 

Well...fill in a word that isn't too offensive that means what I mean to mean.

Non-standard?

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I've been thinking a lot about this thread, and I have to say I'm a little upset, or maybe a better word is disheartened. 

 

One of the very first covenants we make when we're baptized into Christ's church is to mourn with those that mourn, and comfort those who stand in need of comfort. For one of our brothers to come here, clearly needing comfort, and be told that he needs to count his blessings and that he's only hurting because he thinks he's hurting just isn't right. 

 

Mortality IS hard. But it's hard differently for everyone. What might be easy for Traveler could be very difficult for me, while I'm breezing through something that would push TFP to his limits. We are told in the scriptures that we all have different gifts, and that we have weaknesses that the Lord can use to make us strong. Minimizing someone else's difficulties is not mourning together or comforting, it's just adding to the discouragement.

 

And I'm sorry, but this philosophy that we have to have the Second Comforter before we can ask for and expect to receive help and comfort from our Savior is a lie from the adversary, delivered through a "false prophet" (Denver Snuffer, I assume, is where that's coming from), designed to discourage and  ultimately drive people farther from their Redeemer. It's frustrating and disappointing that good people listen to that nonsense. Sure, it's an amazing thing for the few who experience that in this life, but it is NOT a requirement. We are all promised divine help, and entitled to it if we but ask and do our best to live worthy of the Holy Spirit's presence. 

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I've been thinking a lot about this thread, and I have to say I'm a little upset, or maybe a better word is disheartened. 

 

One of the very first covenants we make when we're baptized into Christ's church is to mourn with those that mourn, and comfort those who stand in need of comfort. For one of our brothers to come here, clearly needing comfort, and be told that he needs to count his blessings and that he's only hurting because he thinks he's hurting just isn't right. 

 

Mortality IS hard. But it's hard differently for everyone. What might be easy for Traveler could be very difficult for me, while I'm breezing through something that would push TFP to his limits. We are told in the scriptures that we all have different gifts, and that we have weaknesses that the Lord can use to make us strong. Minimizing someone else's difficulties is not mourning together or comforting, it's just adding to the discouragement.

 

And I'm sorry, but this philosophy that we have to have the Second Comforter before we can ask for and expect to receive help and comfort from our Savior is a lie from the adversary, delivered through a "false prophet" (Denver Snuffer, I assume, is where that's coming from), designed to discourage and  ultimately drive people farther from their Redeemer. It's frustrating and disappointing that good people listen to that nonsense. Sure, it's an amazing thing for the few who experience that in this life, but it is NOT a requirement. We are all promised divine help, and entitled to it if we but ask and do our best to live worthy of the Holy Spirit's presence. 

 

Hmm, as I read and reread the OP, and from a guy's point of view, I don't see a guy coming here for sympathy, although it is certainly possible. Guys don't toss hints like women, or at least like my wife does. And it's taken me years to hone in on the hint thing. We guys just aren't as sensitive and nurturing as the fairer sex. So Eowyn, I agree that it is possible that he came here looking for comfort. And us guys, being from Mars, rush in to offer solutions and fixes. I certainly agree with what you said concerning covenanting to mourn with those who mourn. I have also been endeavoring to be more sensitive to others, so thank you for that post. I hope my posts have not been too insensitive and I apologize for not being more attuned to the OP.

 

Denver Snuffer does not have a monopoly on the Second Comforter. Receiving this other Comforter is taught in the Bible, The Book of Mormon and the Doctrine and Covenants. It is not a philosophy. It is a promise, which Jesus Christ has given to all who earnestly seek Him and He is no respecter of persons. It was taught by Nephi and others in the Book of Mormon. Joseph Smith earnestly tried to get the saints in his day to seek the Lord in this manner, to seek their calling and election, to receive the Holy Spirit of promise. 

 

I don't believe I said we must receive the Second Comforter before we can expect any kind of comfort. I do try to be very careful about my wording because too often people see something different than what I've actually written. It happened this week already with Vort. But I digrees. My reply was directly related to the OP's specific quote and what I highlighted in red

 

Lastly, contrary to what you said about this driving people farther from their Redeemer, what could bring us closer to our Redeemer than when you have knocked and He has opened? What can possibly be more intimate than being encircled about by the robes of His righteousness--His embrace, and to be able to kneel before Him and feel the prints in His feet and to kiss them and to wet His feet with your tears? What can be more intimate than to feel the prints in His hands and His wrists with your own two hands? What can be more wonderful than His countenance smiling upon you and being overwhelmed by His love? When Jesus Christ admonished two nations to ask and to seek and to knock, it wasn't random advice. It was a very specific call to action. I say this in the most sincere and humble way that I can. This path has been a part of my life for over twenty-five years--decades before Denver Snuffer was ever on anyone's radar. That is all I will say about this. 

Edited by skalenfehl
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I didn't say that the Second Comforter drives us away. That would be silly. I mean the expectation that if we don't achieve that in this life, we have failed somehow. If it was as necessary a thing in this life as Snuffer claims, don't you think we'd be taught so on a regular basis? (And yes, I know he says that the Church and its leaders are corrupt and that he is the one who has been given the "true" priesthood and all of that. . . more reason to question what he says, no?) As a matter of fact, I did specify that it's a glorious thing for those who receive it, but I believe they will be few in this life, and that's okay. We're all on our own path to Christ. It doesn't matter where we are on it, so much as that we are on it and moving forward. 

 

I am very leery of Snuffer and his type, because like all the great deceivers in the scriptures, he preaches things that are flattering and pleasing to the ear, maybe even with a measure of truth, but he is not teaching the word of God or with the power of the Spirit. I don't hesitate to warn people of such. 

Edited by Eowyn
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I have perhaps been less sympathetic to John Prather than I ought to have been. One coping mechanism widely used by men is to laugh at our own insecurities and weaknesses, and thus reassure ourselves that that particular insecurity is less important than we think and we really ought to get on with things. This often works, and when it works, it's great. When it fails, though, it can look an awful lot like not caring. Which is not true, but that's how it looks, even to men when they're the ones not feeling it.

 

As for the Second Comforter stuff: I agree with skalenfehl that this is true doctrine taught in the Bible and other scriptures, and that it is freely available to those who are ready for it (which, we hope, will eventually mean us all, in this life or the next). But I share Eowyn's apprehension to those who glom onto this doctrine and base their spiritual worldview around it. If I am not currently spiritually mature enough to receive the blessings of the Second Comforter, that does not mean I am condemned. I am not. And if someone else who claims to have received the Second Comforter is preaching that we are condemned if we have not received it...well, I take that as prima facie evidence that they are even less spiritually mature than me, ergo whatever they think they have received, it can't be the Second Comforter.

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I would be happy to discuss in greater detail according to what Joseph Smith taught and according to what we have in the scriptures. You keep bringing up Denver Snuffer as if I am channeling him. I am not. But if you really want to talk about him and what he has taught, you gotta provide references. 

 

 

 

And I'm sorry, but this philosophy that we have to have the Second Comforter before we can ask for and expect to receive help and comfort from our Savior is a lie from the adversary, delivered through a "false prophet" (Denver Snuffer, I assume, is where that's coming from), designed to discourage and  ultimately drive people farther from their Redeemer.

 

Eowyn, please help me understand. That was quite a mouthful, as it were. It seems that you conflated several points here, one of which is that the Second Comforter drives people farther from their Redeemer. And you attributed that to Denver. I will assume that you read that on his blog somewhere or one of his books, but I honestly can't tell. What I know, I know independently of Denver or anyone else. But you brought him up.

 

Vort, if I have ever said that one must receive the Second Comforter or be condemned, as you put it, please provide a reference. Did you read that in any of my posts? And if you read that from Denver's blog or anything he has written, I would appreciate a citation. I feel like I am being pigeonholed into a box, painted by individual paradigms.

 

 

 

I am very leery of Snuffer and his type, because like all the great deceivers in the scriptures...

 

If I have posted anything that is false, please call me on it. Now I am not feeling defensive or being defensive. I am genuinely curious about the assertions made by both of you. And if I recall, it wasn't too long ago in another thread that I was told something to effect that I should be careful about the assertions that I make. 

 

I love talking about the gospel. I love talking about my Savior. I love talking about the gifts, which I believe He wants to give us more eagerly than we desire to receive them. I love talking about the things Joseph Smith taught. I love talking about the Book of Mormon. I love talking about receiving our calling and election, receiving both Comforters and so much more. :)

Edited by skalenfehl
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I was just picking up some Snuffer-ist things in some posts, and as I have recently lost some family members not just from the Church but from God altogether no thanks to guys like him, I AM very defensive when I feel like someone is trying to push his agenda (even in a subtle way). If that's not your intent, I apologize. 

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No apology necessary. It is not my intent. My initial reply was directly related to the OP. Now if I may ask, what do you think it means when "He will encircle us in His gentle arms. He will be more than an angel to us." I think you know by now what it means to me. How do we know what the OP is asking exactly, if not exactly what he is saying? I don't have a woman's intuition. But I can rely on what the Spirit has taught me based on the information the OP provided. What I see is a very specific question.

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My question for you skalenfehl, is -- what you are implying needs to be done to seek the Second Comforter? There seems to be an implication that whatever that is either isn't being done, in which case, what needs to be done needs to be specified, or else the point is moderately meaningless -- like saying in response to a post such as John Prathers, "What you need to be doing is seeking for the Celestial Kingdom."

 

Well...duh.

 

But how?

 

The Second Comforter talk as a recommendation falls flat because it is not a how.

 

Moreover, it's a bit of horse-before-the-cart talk. Don't you think that we ought to be seeking the First Comforter first? Wouldn't seeking the comfort, assurance, and guidance of the Holy Ghost be the first order of business. And to that...is not the means of qualifying for the Second Comforter THE EXACT SAME METHOD as seeking for the first? And can one know Jesus the Christ without having it revealed to him/her through the Holy Ghost. I think not.

 

Is not the Second Comforter more of a promise for faithfulness than a directive? Correct me if I'm wrong.

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