Benjamin Netanyahu Speech.

[Crypto]

[Capitalist_Oinker]

Clearly not a Bugs Bunny fan.

 

Apparently not. 

I can't say as I've ever actually watched a Bugs Bunny cartoon, but my kids did when they were young and I guess I picked up on some things via the audio. 

 

I can say, however, that had I used the word "Moron" I would not have used a possessive apostrophe. But then I'm not a "teacher and an educationalist" so what do I know? 

[Latter Days Guy]

It's really stupid to have to point this out... Latter Days Guy is clearly hard-lined.

Lebanon War - 70's and early 2000's

Rise of PLO insurgency in South Lebanon after they got kicked out of Jordan - Question - WHY did Jordan wash their hands of them and made them an Israeli problem?

 

Because the then King of Jordan was worried about a possible coup which could have been backed bt the Palestinian refugee's so he forced them out.

1982 - Israeli invasion of South Lebanon - WHY? Remember the assassination attempt of Israel's ambassador to Britain? Do you also remember the PLO attacks against Northern Israel? After 10 years of this, Israel finally invaded South Lebanon and wiped the area clean. It's still going on until today... Iran is still funding Hezbollah and Israeli Prime Ministers continue making speeches about nuke ban on Iran...

 

To try and destroy the military wing of the PLO which was fighting a gorilla war to regain their homeland maybe?  They hardly wiped them clean, though they did allow the refugee camps to become the killing grounds in what is one of the worst atrocities to happen in their invasion of Lebanon.

All an Israeli has to do is sneeze on a Palestinian and Palestine has a cause to mass protest... Simply settled by one question - who gets to control the Territories? The loser or winner of war? Who gets to control the Falklands? Britain or Argentina? Same concept.

 

Not really, the Falklands were British sovereign territory which were invaded and those invaders were pushed out by military conflict.  Palestine was divided and given to another non-indigenous people by the UN, though the rest of the land was eventually swallowed up until the indigenous people no longer had any land.

Like I said... PAWNS. All bought and paid for by anti-semitist powers and the bleeding hearts of gullible guys.

 

Not at all, Israel could have had peace a long time ago but has failed to live up to the treaties and accords that it signed.

And by the way... War Criminal is neither left nor right wing. If that's how you see things then go play soccer with your politics. That's pretty much ALL it's worth.

 

Thats right, you can have both left and right wing war criminals, he just happens to be a right wing war criminal.

If we're going to point marginalization of Palestinians since 1948 go put that entire lot and dump it on the lap of your beloved British Parliament. America has been cleaning your mess ever since!

 

Since 1948?  Hardly, before then probably.  Since then its been that big veto in the UN the US pulls out when ever anyone farts in the general direction of Israel that has caused the marginalisation of the Palestinians.  

[Latter Days Guy]

Apparently not. 

I can't say as I've ever actually watched a Bugs Bunny cartoon, but my kids did when they were young and I guess I picked up on some things via the audio. 

 

I can say, however, that had I used the word "Moron" I would not have used a possessive apostrophe. But then I'm not a "teacher and an educationalist" so what do I know? 

Oops, very sorry, was late and I didn't proof read my post before posting.  

[Latter Days Guy]

 

Maroon is a term made famous by a cartoon character (Bugs Bunny) meaning a pushover, or one easily fooled. Maybe he added an extra "o" to indicate a double moron?

 

Obviously not that famous then.

 

You wrote: "All well and nice but I'm not a communist, don't believe in communism but also don't believe in right wing garbage either."

 

So in your opinion, which of those prophets and apostles (perhaps all?) were spouting "right wing garbage". 

 

Did I say any had?

 

You wrote: "I blame the Martians, its always those pesky Martians... And communists.... No wait, you beat them... Its those pesky Moozlums!"

 

Ah yes, a classic dodge. Run out of argument; ridicule the premise. How pathetic.

 

Not really.

 

You wrote: "The difference I see here is that God influenced the founding fathers and gave them the inspiration to write the constitution.  Where as in the case of Ancient Israel God was an active part of the conquest of the land and the creation of ancient Israel."

 

The story of America began long before the Founding Fathers. 

The BOM clearly explains that God motivated Columbus (many prophets and apostles have affirmed that the "man among the Gentiles" Nephi saw in vision was Columbus) to cross the waters to America.

The BOM clearly explains that God motivated other Gentiles to travel to America also.

The BOM clearly explains that God fought their battles and delivered them out of the hands of those who would have enslaved them once more.

And as I've already pointed out, numerous prophets and apostles have spoken about America's DIVINE "preparation", "founding", and "destiny". President Benson spoke eloquently testifying that America was established by God to be His base of operations in the last days. 

But I suppose all of that is just more "right wing garbage"?

 

I'm curious, LDG. Is there anything a prophet or apostle could say, that wouldn't square with your left wing ideology, that you would accept as being true?

 

Which left wing ideology would that be?  Do you have anything to actually contribute to the actual topic of this thread or are you just going to continue with your rant about communism which does seem to be a common thread running through all your posts.

 

Edited March 24, 2015 by Latter Days Guy

[Capitalist_Oinker]

Oops, very sorry, was late and I didn't proof read my post before posting.  

 

I'm just giving you a hard time, LDG; I doubt anyone here has ever posted more than a few times without having to use the "edit" button that was fortunately provided. 

[Capitalist_Oinker]

Did I say any had?

 

You wrote that you didn't believe the "right wing garbage" immediately after my quotes from prophets and apostles. What then were you referring to?

 

You wrote: "Which left wing ideology would that be?  

 

The left wing ideology that can't stomach any derogatory remark regarding communism or socialism. 

 

You wrote: "Do you have anything to actually contribute to the actual topic of this thread or are you just going to continue with your rant about communism which does seem to be a common thread running through all your posts."

 

The OP was simply anatess's opinion of Netanyahu.

My contribution was to simply agree with her opinion by stating that I would gladly trade him for our current POTUS. 

Your contribution was to ridicule my opinion, and since then anyone else's opinion that doesn't square with yours. 

 

As for Communism/Socialism you are more than welcome to NOT respond to my posts regarding that issue if they annoy you. But when you do respond I'll answer your "rants" as long as you press on. 

Your move.

 

 

 

 

 

Edited March 24, 2015 by Capitalist_Oinker

[Crypto]

I am generally of the persuasion that the sin's of the fathers shouldn't be placed upon the children. Rather than pointing fingers of who's fault it is. How can we improve the peoples lives who this has all affected? I'm not saying that it would be fair or completely just, hopefully God will make up for that.

[Latter Days Guy]

 

Did I say any had?

 

You wrote that you didn't believe the "right wing garbage" immediately after my quotes from prophets and apostles. What then were you referring to?

 

No I said I wasn't a communist and that I wasn't right wing either, both are in my opinion garbage.

 

You wrote: "Which left wing ideology would that be?  

 

The left wing ideology that can't stomach any derogatory remark regarding communism or socialism. 

 

And those would be?

 

You wrote: "Do you have anything to actually contribute to the actual topic of this thread or are you just going to continue with your rant about communism which does seem to be a common thread running through all your posts."

 

The OP was simply anatess's opinion of Netanyahu.

My contribution was to simply agree with her opinion by stating that I would gladly trade him for our current POTUS. 

Your contribution was to ridicule my opinion, and since then anyone else's opinion that doesn't square with yours. 

 

No, you did that all by yourself when you said you would trade your president for a neo fascist war criminal. 

 

As for Communism/Socialism you are more than welcome to NOT respond to my posts regarding that issue if they annoy you. But when you do respond I'll answer your "rants" as long as you press on. 

Your move.

 

You do know that communism and socialism aren't the same thing don't you?

 

 

 

 

[Capitalist_Oinker]

No I said I wasn't a communist and that I wasn't right wing either, both are in my opinion garbage.

 

What part of communism is garbage, LG?

Is it the public school system?

Is it a progressive or graduated income tax?

Is it the centralization of credit in the hands of the state, by means of a national bank?

Tell me what part of communism you have a real problem with?

Just as an aside, do you consider yourself a Socialist or is socialism garbage also?

 

You wrote: "And those would be?"

 

Apparently everything I’ve said so far.

 

You wrote: “No, you did that all by yourself when you said you would trade your president for a neo fascist war criminal.”

 

I did what all by myself?? I confess you've lost me.

As far as Netanyahu being a fascist war criminal, that is merely your opinion. As far as I know he hasn't been convicted of any such thing.

In regards to trading him for a would-be-dictator who regularly and willfully violates his oath to "preserve, protect and defend the Constitution of the United States", (which isn't mere opinion) I plead guilty and unapologetic. 

 

You wrote: "You do know that communism and socialism aren't the same thing don't you?"

 

No, but I guess I'm in good company. I'll just re-post (since no doubt you didn't read it the first time) what a prophet, seer, and revelator said about them: "The paths we are following will inevitably lead us to Socialism or Communism and these two are as like as two peas in a pod in their ultimate effect upon our liberties. Never forget for one moment that Communism and Socialism are state slavery."

President David O. McKay used the phrase "communism/socialism" many times while discussing the issue. He rarely differentiated between the two, but maybe all that is just more "right wing garbage", huh?

Edited March 25, 2015 by Capitalist_Oinker

[Latter Days Guy]

 

What part of communism is garbage, LG?

Is it the public school system?

Is it a progressive or graduated income tax?

Is it the centralization of credit in the hands of the state, by means of a national bank?

Tell me what part of communism you have a real problem with?

 

Personally I don't have a problem with anyone being a communist or believing in communism, that is after all their free choice.  But as Latter Day Prophets have said its not Heavenly Fathers way of doing things so therefore should be avoided.

 

Just as an aside, do you consider yourself a Socialist or is socialism garbage also?

 

No I consider myself to be a Christian.

 

You wrote: "And those would be?"

 

Apparently everything I’ve said so far.

 

You wrote: “No, you did that all by yourself when you said you would trade your president for a neo fascist war criminal.”

 

I did what all by myself?? I confess you've lost me.

 

Ridiculed yourself maybe?

 

As far as Netanyahu being a fascist war criminal, that is merely your opinion. As far as I know he hasn't been convicted of any such thing.

In regards to trading him for a would-be-dictator who regularly and willfully violates his oath to "preserve, protect and defend the Constitution of the United States", (which isn't mere opinion) I plead guilty and unapologetic. 

 

And that would be your opinion also.

 

You wrote: "You do know that communism and socialism aren't the same thing don't you?"

 

No, but I guess I'm in good company. I'll just re-post (since no doubt you didn't read it the first time) what a prophet, seer, and revelator said about them: "The paths we are following will inevitably lead us to Socialism or Communism and these two are as like as two peas in a pod in their ultimate effect upon our liberties. Never forget for one moment that Communism and Socialism are state slavery."

President David O. McKay used the phrase "communism/socialism" many times while discussing the issue. He rarely differentiated between the two, but maybe all that is just more "right wing garbage", huh?

 

And that doesn't change the fact that they are not by definition the same thing.  They both may be wrong but that doesn't change the fact that by definition they are not one and the same thing.

[Capitalist_Oinker]

Ridiculed yourself maybe?

 

Well, I think it's good to be ridiculed now and then. Keeps us humble. 

So if no one else will do it, what choice do I have? 

 

Just for a few minutes I'd like to talk to you as one Mormon to another---as someone who should at least be TRYING to show kindness and understanding toward a fellow Saint. 

 

You and I obviously aren't going to have many agreements regarding politics, at least until the Lord comes and explains the truth of all things. But in the meantime I'd like to attempt to explain something.

 

You accused me of ranting about communism and that it seemed to be a common theme in many of my posts.

Perhaps you're right. 

It is in fact something that concerns me a great deal, and as I said, I'd like to explain why.

 

We know from the scriptures and messages from modern-day prophets and apostles that the principle of "agency" is not just essential, but CRUCIAL to the Plan of Salvation. Agency was the very precept we fought over in a pre-mortal heavenly war; a war Satan continues to wage here on earth today. He understands full well that the only way he can frustrate and impede the Plan of Salvation is by limiting agency. 

 

When we as Mormons fully appreciate the significance of the War in Heaven, we should immediately recognize the similarity between the forced righteousness program of Lucifer and the current program of collectivists here on earth. Whether they be Fabians, Socialists, Communists, Fascists, Welfare Staters or whatever; the essence of the collectivist philosophy is that people just aren't intelligent (or benevolent) enough to do what is right. To remedy this problem, the collectivists (who believe they are the intelligent ones) seek for power to force the rest of mankind to adhere to their "enlightened" programs. 

 

Once we understand the great struggle over agency that occurred in the War in Heaven, we have the key for understanding the greatest conflict of our age, which is the struggle of free men against the all encompassing and supposedly all-wise state. This struggle and conflict is, as President David O. McKay said, "the problem of our time. It overshadows all other problems."

 

We know from the BOM, that two great nations and peoples (Jaradites and Nephites) who previously occupied America, were destroyed prior to the arrival of the "Gentiles". 

Mormon tells us that an organization the Nephites referred to as the Gadianton Robbers were responsible for the overthrow and destruction of the Nephites (Hel. 2:13), while Moroni tells us this same organization was also responsible for the destruction of the Jaradites. (Ether 8:21)

 

So who were these Gadianton Robbers?

It's a certainty they didn't refer to themselves as robbers; in fact we know they considered themselves, their society and their works to be "good". (3 Nephi 3:9) 

As to who or what they were, their own words provide us with clues. 

Here is what one of their proponents (Giddianhi) wrote to the leader of the Nephites: 

"yield up unto this my people, your cities, your lands, and your possessions…Or in other words, yield yourselves up unto us, and unite with us…and become our brethren that ye may be like unto us---not our slaves, but our brethren and partners of all our substance."

 

Now I ask you, does that not indicate that the Gadiantons weren't just some band of robbers, as robbers need victims to plunder, but rather, an organization based upon communistic/socialistic principles??

In point of fact, both President David O. McKay and President Ezra Taft Benson have cited the marked similarities between communism and the Gadianton conspiracies in the BOM. 

 

Moroni pointedly warned us that when (note he said "when", not "if") we shall see these conspiracies come among us , we should "awake to a sense of [our] awful situation." For it cometh to pass, he said, "that whoso buildeth it up seeketh to overthrow the freedom of all lands, nations, and countries; and it bringeth to pass the destruction of all people, for it is built up by the devil…"

 

Think about it, LG. Satan was successful in destroying the two previous nations that occupied America by overthrowing them using a conspiracy based upon collectivism. Does it not make sense that he would use the same exact conspiracy to overthrow and destroy us today?

 

This is a conspiracy so subtle and so ingenious, that in the days of the Nephites it was able to "seduce the more part of the righteous" until even THEY "had come down to believe in their works and partake of their spoils." (Hel. 6:38)

 

Can you not see the similarities?

We have righteous members of the Church today who have come down to believe in communist/socialist principles, and even partake of their spoils (money and property taken from one person by force and subsequently received and accepted by themselves.)

 

To wrap this little discourse up:

I firmly believe that the Gadianton Robbers, who were responsible for the overthrow and destruction of the previous two nations that occupied America, are the equivalent of modern-day collectivists in the form of communists and socialists today. 

I believe that is why so many modern-day prophets and apostles have spoken vehemently against communism and socialism. 

I believe that is why Moroni so forcefully warned us not to "uphold" them and allow them to "spread over the nation". He saw what the result of such a course was for his own people, and he obviously doesn't want the same thing to happen to us.

 

So if it appears that I spend an inordinate amount of time vilifying communism and socialism in my posts, I hope now you can understand why.

 

Thanks for listening.

(Or if you haven't got the audio version, thanks for reading.) 

Edited March 25, 2015 by Capitalist_Oinker

[askandanswer]

What follows is something that I’ve thought about from time to time but haven’t until now made any attempt to write out. I’m writing it out now because it is related to the topic of this post, although its not exactly the same set of issues that this post deals with.

 

I’m trying to decide for myself whether there is still any legitimacy to the claim that the people who make up the nation of Israel are entitled to the land they now live on because God gave it to them. There may well be other reasons to claim why they are entitled to this land, and I’m not arguing for or against any of those claims, this thought is just about whether there remains any divinely granted right to the land.

 

My reading of the scriptures is that whenever God has given away a piece of land to a particular group, the right of that group to maintain possession of that land has always been conditional upon their righteousness and obedience. The Jaredites were given America and they lost it due to their disobedience and wickedness and they were replaced by the children of Lehi, who, for a time were more righteous than the Jaredites. The same promises that had been made to the Jaredites were also made to Lehi’s children, but after time, through their rejection of God and His teachings, they also became dispossessed of their land. Prior to the children of Jacob occupying what is now Israel, the land was inhabited by Canaanites. The Lord makes clear that part of the reason why the Canaanites were dispossessed of the land was because of their wickedness and rejection of the Lord. Certainly there were numerous times when some, and then all, of the children of Jacob were dispossessed of some or all of their land, and every time it was because of their rejection of God. So there seems to be good evidence for the ideas that continued possession of a piece of land by a group of people to whom God has given it is dependent on their acceptance of, and obedience to, God, by that group of people, and that rejection of God by that group of people nullifies any claim to that land based on divine right.

 

If that is a correct conclusion, can it then be argued that by their rejection of Christ and His gospel, the children of Jacob no longer have any divinely based right to the land of Israel?

 

Please note that this is not a question about Israel’s right to exist – I don’t have a view on that question and I don’t feel the necessity to develop a view on that question. It is a question about whether there is still any legitimacy to the claim that the people who now live on the land that is known as Israel have a divine right to that land. 

 

ps I'm not trying to take any right wing or left wing or Republican or communist or Fox or Guardian or European viewpoint either. 

Edited March 26, 2015 by askandanswer

[Crypto]

I believe in the revelation that Jerusalem will be rebuilt prior to the second comming of Christ. (Both new and old), and a literal gathering [which I think includes non-lds ] That implies to me that at some point the tribe of Judah, and the other tribe's will be (or are currently) granted divine allowance of that land.

Edited March 26, 2015 by Crypto

[askandanswer]

I believe in the revelation that Jerusalem will be rebuilt prior to the second comming of Christ. (Both new and old), and a literal gathering [which I think includes non-lds ] That implies to me that at some point the tripe of Judah, and the other tribe's will be (or are currently) granted divine allowance of that land.

 

This sounds quite reasonable, but I note that there are numerous verses, particularly in the latter part of 2nd Nephi, which suggests that the gathering and rebuilding will only occur, and may be dependent on, the people beginning to accept and believe on Jesus Christ. If that is the case, it simply adds support to the idea that possession of the land is conditional upon acceptance of Christ - with the other side of that idea being that non-acceptance of Christ means no divine claim on the land. 

Edited March 26, 2015 by askandanswer

[Crypto]

There are certain jewish groups that have accepted Christ. They don't constitute the majority, but they are there.

[askandanswer]

There are certain jewish groups that have accepted Christ. They don't constitute the majority, but they are there.

And probably there were a few righteous Nephites, and a few righteous Jews immediately prior to the Babylonian captivity - but not enough to swing the balance. 

[Crypto]

You said

 

 

rebuilding will only occur, and may be dependent on, the people beginning to accept and believe on Jesus Christ.

It would appear that, that requirement you have stated yourself, has begun to happen.

 

Whether it actually fulfills God's requirements or not I have no idea.

[askandanswer]

You said

It would appear that, that requirement you have stated yourself, has begun to happen.

 

 

True, it has begun, and hopefully will continue, at a faster rate. This still leaves open the question of whether or not the claim to ownership of the land by right of divine approval has any legitimacy. Surely, small groups of Jews becoming Christians is not enough to overwhelm the vast majority of the inhabitants of that land who have rejected Christ and His Gospel and who practice a false form of religion - the very same reasons why the Nephites and others lost the rights to the land that used to be theirs.

[Crypto]

True, it has begun, and hopefully will continue, at a faster rate. This still leaves open the question of whether or not the claim to ownership of the land by right of divine approval has any legitimacy. Surely, small groups of Jews becoming Christians is not enough to overwhelm the vast majority of the inhabitants of that land who have rejected Christ and His Gospel and who practice a false form of religion - the very same reasons why the Nephites and others lost the rights to the land that used to be theirs.

I'm not sure this is a correct interpretation either. Read Genesis 18 about the story of Sodom and Gomorrah https://www.lds.org/scriptures/ot/gen/18

The lord was willing to spare the city if even 10 righteous people could be found. The Lord is merciful, the decision on when it is time to show mercy is up to him.

[askandanswer]

I'm not sure this is a correct interpretation either. Read Genesis 18 about the story of Sodom and Gomorrah https://www.lds.org/scriptures/ot/gen/18

The lord was willing to spare the city if even 10 righteous people could be found. The Lord is merciful, the decision on when it is time to show mercy is up to him.

 

Yes, but on the other hand, the example of Daniel and his three friends, and of Jeremiah 52:24 suggests that the presence of a few righteous among the many wicked is not enough to save the wicked.

 

4 ¶ And the captain of the guard took Seraiah the chief priest, and Zephaniah the second priest, and the three keepers of the door:

[Crypto]

Unless there is some reason to believe one scripture fits better than another scripture I think this line of thought leads to a "I don't know" conclusion.

[askandanswer]

Unless there is some reason to believe one scripture fits better than another scripture I think this line of thought leads to a "I don't know" conclusion.

 

Hence the question - because I don't know. If I did, I wouldn't have asked.  :) But in this short part of the discussion, which regrettably no one else has participated in, we have only explored one possibility, and have arrived at an I don't know conclusion. Perhaps others may have more to contribute. 

[Leah]

It's really stupid to have to point this out... Latter Days Guy is clearly hard-lined.

Lebanon War - 70's and early 2000's

Rise of PLO insurgency in South Lebanon after they got kicked out of Jordan - Question - WHY did Jordan wash their hands of them and made them an Israeli problem?

1982 - Israeli invasion of South Lebanon - WHY? Remember the assassination attempt of Israel's ambassador to Britain? Do you also remember the PLO attacks against Northern Israel? After 10 years of this, Israel finally invaded South Lebanon and wiped the area clean. It's still going on until today... Iran is still funding Hezbollah and Israeli Prime Ministers continue making speeches about nuke ban on Iran...

All an Israeli has to do is sneeze on a Palestinian and Palestine has a cause to mass protest... Simply settled by one question - who gets to control the Territories? The loser or winner of war? Who gets to control the Falklands? Britain or Argentina? Same concept.

Like I said... PAWNS. All bought and paid for by anti-semitist powers and the bleeding hearts of gullible guys.

And by the way... War Criminal is neither left nor right wing. If that's how you see things then go play soccer with your politics. That's pretty much ALL it's worth.

If we're going to point marginalization of Palestinians since 1948 go put that entire lot and dump it on the lap of your beloved British Parliament. America has been cleaning your mess ever since!

I applaud people like you and Just A Guy for attempting to bring truth to this thread.  And am in awe of your patience in dealing with people who would cling to their anti-Semitism with every fiber of their being, rather than open their eyes to truth.  I comfort myself with the knowledge that they will someday have to be accountable to their Heavenly Father.  I am confident he will not have the reaction to their propaganda that they so arrogantly expect.

 

I had a rare and unexpected opportunity to meet and listen to a high-ranking official intimately involved with the peace talks over the years.  It was highly educational as well as disheartening and downright frightening.  It is hard to maintain hope in light of the knowledge that Israel agreed to everything the Palestinians were asking for, yet it was rejected because having all of the land they were demanding wasn't really their goal.  It's just a smokescreen for the true objective - the elimination of every Jew on the planet.

[Latter Days Guy]

I applaud people like you and Just A Guy for attempting to bring truth to this thread.  And am in awe of your patience in dealing with people who would cling to their anti-Semitism with every fiber of their being, rather than open their eyes to truth.  I comfort myself with the knowledge that they will someday have to be accountable to their Heavenly Father.  I am confident he will not have the reaction to their propaganda that they so arrogantly expect.

 

I had a rare and unexpected opportunity to meet and listen to a high-ranking official intimately involved with the peace talks over the years.  It was highly educational as well as disheartening and downright frightening.  It is hard to maintain hope in light of the knowledge that Israel agreed to everything the Palestinians were asking for, yet it was rejected because having all of the land they were demanding wasn't really their goal.  It's just a smokescreen for the true objective - the elimination of every Jew on the planet.

I'm sorry but did you just call me an anti-Semite?  You couldn't be further from the truth if you tried!

Disagreeing with Israeli policy towards the peace talks and the establishment of a Palestinian state does not in any way shape or form make you anti-Semitic. If it did then there are plenty of Jewish Israeli's who disagree as well, are they anti-Semitic as well? Let me be clear, I fully support the idea of a Jewish state, that Israel has a right to exist.  But I also support the right of Palestinians to also have a homeland to call their own.  

I think  you may have been duped by that so called high ranking official, as over the many years of the peace process the amount of land that the Palestinians have asked for has shrunk considerably from the 1948 partition to the current proposed 22% of said partition.  Clearly the Israeli's are getting the better deal.  But then their true intent is to wipe the Palestinians of the face of the map, which they have been doing since they took control of the occupied territories in their dreams of creating greater Israel.