Are LDS as 'judgmental' as Evangelicals are? Maybe you should be!

[Vort]

I always think about Abinidi when this subject of judgement is being discussed.  Abinidi warns the citizens of the city Nephi-Lehi that their current state of wickedness has earned them the displeasure of God and that negative consequences will result if they don't repent and turn back to God.  The first time he tells the people this they react with anger and take offense...

 

2 years later Abinidi returns to try again. (employing a disguise to get into the city since these people want to kill him after the first attempt.  Of course the first words recorded are him announcing he's Abinidi so... not a man of stealth.)

 

He delivers the same message as before except much more urgently.

 

In fact, what Abinidi says the second time is, "You had your chance and you failed to repent. Now you are now cursed and will be brought into bondage. If you don't repent, you will be completely destroyed." Sure enough, they all were in fact brought into slavery, even those who repented and followed Alma. And the wicked who refused to repent were indeed utterly destroyed (along with some of the repentant, I assume).

[mnn727]

Are LDS as 'judgmental' as Christians are?

 

Come on PC -- LDS ARE Christians

Edited March 4, 2015 by mnn727

[The Folk Prophet]

2 years later Abinidi returns to try again. (employing a disguise to get into the city since these people want to kill him after the first attempt.  Of course the first words recorded are him announcing he's Abinidi so... not a man of stealth.)

 

This always makes me chuckle. I expect the record was less than clear in this point, missing several details, etc., of what went down. An example, methinks, of their weakness in writing, etc. :)

[Blackmarch]

I published this on my social media page, and got to thinking that everything I said would likely get an 'Amen' from my LDS friends.  Read it and see if you agree.

 

 

CHRISTIANS ARE JUDGMENTAL

 

It is not that we mean to be. Usually we are minding our own business. Out of the blue, a co-worker, friend, sometimes even a family member, will quip, "Why do you Christians judge so much? You're always making people feel guilty?" A trigger response we give--certainly in today's post-modern milieu--is to say, "Oh, no! You misunderstand. I am not judging YOU. After all, we are all sinner's, saved by grace! [i even got a bumper sticker to prove it!] Everyone comes to God with some "stuff." We ask him to forgive us, and we are made right with him. Hey, I still struggle with my stuff, so please don't think me judgmental. The pastor in me might even go a step further, and ask the questioner if I could pray with him or her, so peace would come--comfort, and wellness.

 

Judgment is a very close cousin to bigotry. Some of my fellow Christians are so loathe to appear hateful that they will know longer name sins. At least one famous TV minister has declared that naming and calling out sin is not his calling. God has called him to lift up and build up, not tear down and destroy, you see.

 

Ironically, in my 40+ years as a Christian, I have seldom heard a sermon that parked on sins and sinning. There are a few outliers that find fulfillment in declaring God's judgment is at hand, waving big signs, and yelling condemnations at by-passers. These guys are caricatures, though. Christians cringe, and skeptics laugh.

 

So, why the title? Christians carry the presence of God. Many of us openly say we are Spirit-filled. Further, we believe that the Holy Spirit will bring conviction--guilt. Is it so strange then, when people respond to our proximity with a seemingly impromptu, "Why are you Christians so judgmental?" Might not the underlying cause be God-given guilt? If it is true that all have sinned, then could it not also be that the person feels guilty because s/he is guilty, before God?

 

It's a crucial moment. We Christians dare not squander it by downplaying what the Holy Spirit is doing. Prayerfully, we ought to approach such instances with not one ounce of defensiveness. The accusation is not against us, but God. Can you imagine asking God why He is so judgmental? Would He not double-down, and respond, "Repent?" So, a more appropriate response might be, "You do not have to answer to me. Only God is the ultimate judge. So, whatever you are feeling, He is the one we all must answer to."

 

How we finesse such an answer will depend on our personality, our communication style, and on how God leads us. Humility (I had to repent too), and confidence (this is God's work) will under gird us. Regardless, let us not quench the judging work of God, nor downplay his call to repentance.

probably a lot closer to yes than no. humble judgement i'm fine with but that takes doing. generally its the judgement borne out of pride- that tends to destroy God's work or God's word among men, and tends to be much more common. Fortunately people don't realise that happens when they do make such a mistake, and we have been granted time to repent, as well salvation against that which we can't influence.

on a sidenote that's not completely unrelated I came across a clip a few weeks ago that i found really interesting, basically showing that a more accurate translation for the "Do not take the name of the LORD in vain" commandment- basically that a better translation would be to "Do not carry the name of the LORD in vain" meaning how one behaves and acts in the name of God - while it's probably more towards the leadership, the bearers and dispensers of God's authority, it also applies to those who take upon them the name of God... When such a people take an action or make a judgement they take the place of God or put themselves in God's shoes and so if it is something that goes against what the Lord has commanded or destroys what he is building (such as driving away people from coming to him)- then justice demands that that individual would be held accountable for all of that.

why the command to not take the lord's name in vain was so high on the list become quite a bit clearer and also much more sobering.

[prisonchaplain]

Are LDS as 'judgmental' as Christians are?

 

Come on PC -- LDS ARE Christians

 

I was wondering why this thread was getting so much traffic.  Apparently my effective prose wasn't the reason.  :::sigh:::   :-)

[Vort]

This always makes me chuckle. I expect the record was less than clear in this point, missing several details, etc., of what went down. An example, methinks, of their weakness in writing, etc. :)

I expect his disguise was only to allow him entrance to the city. Once he got in a position to preach, his disguise was not only useless, it was counterproductive.

[priesthoodpower]

 I tell them that my priesthood is the same as theirs-so let the long hair, earrings and tattoos go. In fact, I can reach a different kind of audience that is just as much Gods children as anyone else. 

 

I had the same way of thinking as you for a long time until I watched a documentary on a protestant pastor on netflix (the overnighters).

 

pastor: "you are going to have to cut your hair, appearance is everything in this town"

 

homeless man looking for a job: "why? Jesus had long hair"

 

pastor: "Jesus didnt have our neighbors"

[prisonchaplain]

Mormons are Christians.

 

I've asked that the title be changed to:  Are LDS as Judgmental as Evangelicals? 

 

My intention was to discuss the spirit of judgment, not to imply who is/is not a Christian.  My apologies for the sloppiness of the original title.

[pam]

I've asked that the title be changed to:  Are LDS as Judgmental as Evangelicals? 

 

My intention was to discuss the spirit of judgment, not to imply who is/is not a Christian.  My apologies for the sloppiness of the original title.

 

You are fine.  I've known you many years and know that would never be your intent.  I was just clarifying for anyone that might be looking in.  :)

[Traveler]

I've asked that the title be changed to:  Are LDS as Judgmental as Evangelicals? 

 

My intention was to discuss the spirit of judgment, not to imply who is/is not a Christian.  My apologies for the sloppiness of the original title.

 

I believe it is both necessary and important that intelligent individuals recognize and support the good in the world and those that are behind doing such things and bringing such things about as well as recognize and not support that which is not good in the world as well as those the foster and are involved in such.

 

Those that call out in reprimand saying to those involved in things that are not honestest, true, trustworthy and of good report - "You should not do or support such things."  I do not believe is what Jesus taught taught as interpreted in our modern era as not being judgmental.  I believe this is a misunderstood doctrine.

[The Folk Prophet]

I haven't read through the thread yet, but the question itself is based on a faulty premise. Are LDS as judgmental as evangelicals? Sure. Are evangelicals as judgmental as atheists? Yes. Are atheists as judgmental as Satan worshipers? Yes. Are people, on the whole, regardless of what they believe, judgmental? Yes.

 

As to the maybe we should be -- it depends on what judgement are being made. Righteous judgement is good. Wicked judgment is bad.

[Guest MormonGator]

I had the same way of thinking as you for a long time until I watched a documentary on a protestant pastor on netflix (the overnighters).

 

pastor: "you are going to have to cut your hair, appearance is everything in this town"

 

homeless man looking for a job: "why? Jesus had long hair"

 

pastor: "Jesus didnt have our neighbors"

It's funny, because I have gotten "Dude, you don't look like a Mormon. It's easier to talk to you about this stuff." Maybe it's just my sparkling personality and charisma. 

[askandanswer]

Could somebody please clarify for me please, I've never quite understood the difference between making a judgement and forming an opinion. The distinction may be important because making a judgement can be a sin, but forming an opinion is almost a daily necessity. 

[estradling75]

Could somebody please clarify for me please, I've never quite understood the difference between making a judgement and forming an opinion. The distinction may be important because making a judgement can be a sin, but forming an opinion is almost a daily necessity. 

 

 

It seems like more and more that opinions is what everyone has and is entitled to... a Judgement is what a person gets accused of when they share an opinion that someone else does not like...

[Capitalist_Oinker]

As to the maybe we should be -- it depends on what judgement are being made. Righteous judgement is good. Wicked judgment is bad.

 

Or as the Joseph Smith translation of Matt. 7:1 reads:

 

"Judge not unrighteously, that ye be not judged; but judge righteous judgment."

 

Elder Dallin H. Oaks gave a great talk on the subject here: 

 

https://www.lds.org/ensign/1999/08/judge-not-and-judging?lang=eng

Edited March 8, 2015 by Capitalist_Oinker

[prisonchaplain]

"Judging" is to condemn a soul.  As an example, I might tell someone that they should not be committing adultery, as it is sin.  He responds, "Who are you to tell me what to do or not do?  Didn't Jesus say to 'Judge not?'" 

 

My response is that I am not judging him.  That is why I am warning him.  If I had judged him as condemned, and beyond repentance, I would not have bothered to reproach him.

[carlimac]

I was wondering why this thread was getting so much traffic.  Apparently my effective prose wasn't the reason.  :::sigh:::   :-)

FWIW Prisonchap. I knew exactly what you meant and it never even occurred to me to take offense at your title. I have enough "Christian" friends that I can understand the distinction.  It's simply semantics.

Edited March 9, 2015 by carlimac

[carlimac]

I think when I have openly told people that I am no longer Mormon or Christian, for that matter, and they go out of their way to send me stuff that is the complete opposite of what I believe - that is rude.

Have you considered that for you to "come out" as not believing in Gods may represent a huge emotional loss for people who love you. This may be how they are dealing with it. Trying desperately to bring you back. We recently went through something like this with our son. It was a crushing, devastating experience for us. He asked us specifically to not bombard him with "reading materials".  We didn't but we did continue to share our own beliefs and testimony with him, as well as much prayer, fasting and putting his name on temple roles.  He seems to be changing course a little but that's another story. 

 

One who has grown up in a religious home, who has siblings, parents and other relatives who hold family and faith very dear, can't just declare their change of beliefs in a vacuum, in isolation. One can't expect it to not affect those around them and for their friends and loved ones to just suck it up and cheerfully accept it without reaction. 

 

the references you are getting on social media may not be "judgemental" at all but a sincere concern for your welfare. Graciously thank them for thinking of you and continue to love them. 

[Dravin]

 

the references you are getting on social media may not be "judgemental" at all but a sincere concern for your welfare. Graciously thank them for thinking of you and continue to love them. 

 

Does that cut both ways? If Bini posted materials and comments intended to lead her friends and family away from Christianity, because she's concerned about the welfare of those who believe in something she believes is false, would your advice be the same? That they should graciously thank her for thinking of them?

 

If yes, I commend you on your consistency. A lot of people aren't so consistent (on either side of things).

Edited March 10, 2015 by Dravin

[omegaseamaster75]

It is human nature to be judgmental, I am not sure how we can avoid it. Darvin asked a great question, doesn't it cut both ways? 

[Pa Pa]

Mormons are Christians.

Yes we are...don't know why we are considered otherwise. Also we are NOT commanded to never judge, but to judge righteously. When those who exclude us from being "Christians", they are passing judgement upon us and claiming themselves superior to us all. That is not a judgement, but being observant. Some are more kind than others when they do so...but it is a "kiss me kick me" type of thing.

[omegaseamaster75]

Yes we are...don't know why we are considered otherwise. Also we are NOT commanded to never judge, but to judge righteously. When those who exclude us from being "Christians", they are passing judgement upon us and claiming themselves superior to us all. That is not a judgement, but being observant. Some are more kind than others when they do so...but it is a "kiss me kick me" type of thing.

Our Jesus is not their Jesus that is why they think that we are not Christians, we are  polytheists for starters, and the list can go on and on.

[carlimac]

Does that cut both ways? If Bini posted materials and comments intended to lead her friends and family away from Christianity, because she's concerned about the welfare of those who believe in something she believes is false, would your advice be the same? That they should graciously thank her for thinking of them?

 

If yes, I commend you on your consistency. A lot of people aren't so consistent (on either side of things).

Yes it does cut both ways.  When we lived in MN our "Evangelical Christian" next door neighbors wouldn't invite the LDS missionaries in but said they'd pray for them.  Obviously the neighbors weren't praying that they'd find more people to baptize. They were praying for their eternal welfare that they thought was in jeopardy.  there were smiles on both sides. I don't really know how one could be offended by that.

Edited March 16, 2015 by carlimac

[Blackmarch]

"Judging" is to condemn a soul.  As an example, I might tell someone that they should not be committing adultery, as it is sin.  He responds, "Who are you to tell me what to do or not do?  Didn't Jesus say to 'Judge not?'" 

 

My response is that I am not judging him.  That is why I am warning him.  If I had judged him as condemned, and beyond repentance, I would not have bothered to reproach him.

or on the flipside putting someone or somethingon a pedestal (making such more than they are)... but out of the two I"d think that the putting someone on a pedestal is the lesser evil XD. And i agree about warning.

 

Edited March 16, 2015 by Blackmarch

[Guest]

Yes we are...don't know why we are considered otherwise.

Christians = Trinitarians.

Non-Trinitarians are not considered Christians even if they follow Christian principles because, technically, there's a question on their claim of who Jesus Christ is and how he is Divine.