Dcshake Posted March 6, 2015 Report Share Posted March 6, 2015 Who first linked our baptismal covenant with the sacrament covenant? Jane_Doe 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
john doe Posted March 9, 2015 Report Share Posted March 9, 2015 (edited) Uh, Jesus? Is this some kind of trick question? Edited March 9, 2015 by john doe Palerider and Roseslipper 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Palerider Posted March 9, 2015 Report Share Posted March 9, 2015 Uh, Jesus? Is this some kind of trick question?Actually there is a prize to the one who answers and it looks like you Win !!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mordorbund Posted March 9, 2015 Report Share Posted March 9, 2015 I know of no other churches that link the sacrament, communion, or eucharist to the rite of baptism. I know of no scripture that (ancient or modern) that directly link the two covenants. I am not familiar with anything in Joseph Smith's teachings that present the sacrament as a renewing of covenants. So I think this is where the question is coming from (because I'm certain I've heard it taught in General Conference within the last 5 years). Now, if you have some quote or citation to answer or move the discussion along, that'd be great. FamilyHistoryWannabe 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted March 9, 2015 Report Share Posted March 9, 2015 I know of no other churches that link the sacrament, communion, or eucharist to the rite of baptism. I know of no scripture that (ancient or modern) that directly link the two covenants. I am not familiar with anything in Joseph Smith's teachings that present the sacrament as a renewing of covenants. So I think this is where the question is coming from (because I'm certain I've heard it taught in General Conference within the last 5 years). Now, if you have some quote or citation to answer or move the discussion along, that'd be great. Interesting that you use those words - communion and eucharist - because those are Catholic words... and in the Catholic church, The Sacrament of the Eucharist is a culmination of the Initiatory Rites of Baptism. Baptism, Confirmation, Penance, Eucharist... they are tied very closely together. Even the Catechism refers to Holy Communion as a renewal of the life of grace received at Baptism. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jane_Doe Posted March 9, 2015 Report Share Posted March 9, 2015 Who first linked our baptismal covenant with the sacrament covenant? I was actually wondering the same thing a few weeks ago.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jane_Doe Posted March 9, 2015 Report Share Posted March 9, 2015 I know of no other churches that link the sacrament, communion, or eucharist to the rite of baptism. I know of no scripture that (ancient or modern) that directly link the two covenants. I am not familiar with anything in Joseph Smith's teachings that present the sacrament as a renewing of covenants. So I think this is where the question is coming from (because I'm certain I've heard it taught in General Conference within the last 5 years). Now, if you have some quote or citation to answer or move the discussion along, that'd be great. This one from last Oct touched on it (https://www.lds.org/general-conference/2014/10/the-sacrament-a-renewal-for-the-soul?lang=eng). But again, I'd like to do a scripture study on it.. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted March 12, 2015 Report Share Posted March 12, 2015 I was actually wondering the same thing a few weeks ago.... The very first scriptural reference to this is the manna from heaven that was sent to Moses' people. This is further explained by Jesus in John 6 after the event of the loaves and fish... when Jesus declared that "I am the bread of life". Then it continues in Luke 22 when Jesus broke bread in the Last Supper and instructed his apostles to "Do this in remembrance of me". And then in 1 Cor 11 when Paul gave further clarity to "remembrance" to include an "examination of conscience". Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Traveler Posted March 12, 2015 Report Share Posted March 12, 2015 Actually there is in ancient scriptures great symbolism of the gathering of the righteous for a divine feast. The symbolism parallels the divine Suzerain receiving his Kingdom and those appointed or chosen that will govern with him. It is the symbolism of deliverance and exaltation. The first qualification to become a citizen is a cleansing - which is the ordinance of baptism. I see no rational logic to attempt to separate the ordinances that conform or citizenship in G-d's kingdom or our alliance to him and to all those devoted to his rule. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted March 12, 2015 Report Share Posted March 12, 2015 (edited) Actually there is in ancient scriptures great symbolism of the gathering of the righteous for a divine feast. The symbolism parallels the divine Suzerain receiving his Kingdom and those appointed or chosen that will govern with him. It is the symbolism of deliverance and exaltation. The first qualification to become a citizen is a cleansing - which is the ordinance of baptism. I see no rational logic to attempt to separate the ordinances that conform or citizenship in G-d's kingdom or our alliance to him and to all those devoted to his rule. I'm not sure I understand this post, Traveler. The question is how sacrament bread/water is tied to renewal of baptismal covenants. I don't think there's an attempt to separate the ordinances. It's simply a question of why, instead of the sacrament bread/water being another ordinance just like, say, priesthood ordination, which is a line upon line progression of our faith, it is specifically tied to renewal of baptismal covenants. We don't consider priesthood ordination a renewal of baptismal covenants even though keeping baptismal covenants is a requirement for ordination with such ordination conforming to our citizenship in the kingdom. Make sense? Edited March 12, 2015 by anatess Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Folk Prophet Posted March 12, 2015 Report Share Posted March 12, 2015 I'm not sure I understand this post, Traveler. The question is how sacrament bread/water is tied to renewal of baptismal covenants. I don't think there's an attempt to separate the ordinances. It's simply a question of why, instead of the sacrament bread/water being another ordinance just like, say, priesthood ordination, which is a line upon line progression of our faith, it is specifically tied to renewal of baptismal covenants. We don't consider priesthood ordination a renewal of baptismal covenants even though keeping baptismal covenants is a requirement for ordination with such ordination conforming to our citizenship in the kingdom. Make sense? Because the priesthood ordinance is not a covenant to always remember the Savior, keep His commandments, and take His name upon us (or stand as a witness for Him) in exchange for having the Spirit to be with you. The baptismal covenant is this. The sacrament covenant is EXACTLY the same covenant as the baptismal one. That is why it's linked. Jane_Doe and Blackmarch 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Just_A_Guy Posted March 12, 2015 Report Share Posted March 12, 2015 (edited) As far as recorded Church sermons go . . . The idea goes back at least to 1880, in a speech given by apostle Charles Penrose recorded in Journal of DIscourses 22:82. It might go back further--I'm using BYU's scripture citation index to search, and the search results I'm getting back aren't in chronological order. Edited March 12, 2015 by Just_A_Guy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Just_A_Guy Posted March 12, 2015 Report Share Posted March 12, 2015 Heber C. Kimball, July 19, 1863, Journal of Discourses 10:245: This is what we are doing this afternoon, and, brethren and sisters, let us be faithful and remember in partaking of this ordinance, we renew our covenants, and we have a promise that we shall receive a renewal of the Holy Spirit, to enable us to be humble and to perform the duties that are enjoined upon us as Saints. Finrock and mordorbund 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted March 12, 2015 Report Share Posted March 12, 2015 (edited) Because the priesthood ordinance is not a covenant to always remember the Savior, keep His commandments, and take His name upon us (or stand as a witness for Him) in exchange for having the Spirit to be with you. The baptismal covenant is this. The sacrament covenant is EXACTLY the same covenant as the baptismal one. That is why it's linked. That's the question the OP was asking... who first linked it? So I pointed out some scriptural references to show Christ linked it. From what I understood of Traveler's post, he was of the impression that the OP was trying to unlink it... Edited March 12, 2015 by anatess Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blackmarch Posted March 24, 2015 Report Share Posted March 24, 2015 (edited) Who first linked our baptismal covenant with the sacrament covenant?the wording itself. A lot dealing with taking upon us the name of Christ and always remembering him and to do his commandments, to have the Spirit to always be with us. If you mean who first realised these things? no idea, or who first realised these things since Joseph SMith? no idea. Edited March 24, 2015 by Blackmarch Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
askandanswer Posted April 16, 2015 Report Share Posted April 16, 2015 Baptism 7 And it came to pass after many days there were a goodly number gathered together at the place of Mormon, to hear the words of Alma. Yea, all were gathered together that believed on his word, to hear him. And he did teach them, and did preach unto them repentance, and redemption, and faith on the Lord.8 And it came to pass that he said unto them: Behold, here are the waters of Mormon (for thus were they called) and now, as ye are desirous to come into the fold of God, and to be called his people, and are willing to bear one another's burdens, that they may be light;9 Yea, and are willing to mourn with those that mourn; yea, and comfort those that stand in need of comfort, and to stand as witnesses of God at all times and in all things, and in all places that ye may be in, even until death, that ye may be redeemed of God, and be numbered with those of the first resurrection, that ye may have eternal life—10 Now I say unto you, if this be the desire of your hearts, what have you against being baptized in the name of the Lord, as a witness before him that ye have entered into a covenant with him, that ye will serve him and keep his commandments, that he may pour out his Spirit more abundantly upon you?11 And now when the people had heard these words, they clapped their hands for joy, and exclaimed: This is the desire of our hearts.12 And now it came to pass that Alma took Helam, he being one of the first, and went and stood forth in the water, and cried, saying: O Lord, pour out thy Spirit upon thy servant, that he may do this work with holiness of heart.13 And when he had said these words, the Spirit of the Lord was upon him, and he said: Helam, I baptize thee, having authority from the Almighty God, as a testimony that ye have entered into a covenant to serve him until you are dead as to the mortal body; and may the Spirit of the Lord be poured out upon you; and may he grant unto you eternal life, through the redemption of Christ, whom he has prepared from the foundation of the world. Sacrament (Book of Mormon | Moroni 4:1 - 3)1 THE manner of their elders and priests administering the flesh and blood of Christ unto the church; and they administered it according to the commandments of Christ; wherefore we know the manner to be true; and the elder or priest did minister it—2 And they did kneel down with the church, and pray to the Father in the name of Christ, saying:3 O God, the Eternal Father, we ask thee in the name of thy Son, Jesus Christ, to bless and sanctify this bread to the souls of all those who partake of it; that they may eat in remembrance of the body of thy Son, and witness unto thee, O God, the Eternal Father, that they are willing to take upon them the name of thy Son, and always remember him, and keep his commandments which he hath given them, that they may always have his Spirit to be with them. Amen. Finrock 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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