She left, possible divorce, and I hope it isn't.


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I want to talk a little about who I am and who my wife is.


We both come from good LDS homes (for the most part). We went to school together, just a few years apart and I not knowing who she was. And when I came home from my mission she was on break from school, we met, dated for a few months, and married after about 5 month engagement. Before we got married, her dad told me about her high expectations, how she would put people on pedestals, and what he wanted from her. He wanted her to delay the marriage for a while longer so he could “get us a better honeymoon” (even though he was dirt poor). We ignored that and got married.


I’ve dealt with pornography since I was in Middle School. I saw it in school and couldn’t look away. For years during school it consumed me. Finally in my senior year of high school and leading up to my mission, with help from family and church leaders, I was able to abolish it from my life. But when I got back and was married, I found the temptations there again, and I fell for them. Of course this caused great distress in my marriage and my wife wanted out immediately. I convinced her that I could control it and went to a bishop again for help only to have a few more lapses. I wanted to quit, but found that I would make excuses for myself. They were only for a minute at a time, maybe once every other week (though sometimes more). We would get in fights about it, but I would never justify it, I knew it was wrong, evil, harmful and degrading. It was at this time that I also would send out messages to personal ads. Twice I caught myself walking in that direction, but caught myself. I knew that by going down that road I would only harm everything beyond repair.


My wife had left to go to her parents one summer for a week or so. And I was working a job with a night crew at a local store. I was alone at time with just one employee and it was then that the biggest mistake I made happened. We found ourselves alone and there was some touching and kissing. And as soon as it occurred I knew that I had gone too far. I immediately distanced myself and waited for my wife to come home to tell her and the Bishop (who I had called soon after). What followed was professional counseling, more threats of divorce, and pain. I went faithfully to try to end my curse. I no longer sent emails to personal ads, which I had only done on a few occasions before. I was good from pornography for the longest since before my mission, and my wife had given me a year. I knew that I could come back from that. And since that time I’ve been able to avoid contact with any other female save my wife.


But the story doesn’t end. My wife suffered from (undiagnosed) depression, and possibly being bi-polar. Her moods swings were all over the place and she slept at least 11-12 hours a day. She couldn’t focus on school when she was having mood swings and often failed. She couldn’t forgive, and couldn’t move on. It was a burden she wanted to carry herself.


For longer than the period of my issues with pornography, my wife suffered from a lack of faith, perspective, and a knowledge of her divine status. In the years that we’ve been married, she never bore a testimony, never sought prayers, never read scriptures for longer than a day or two before giving up for months or years. She doubted God's love for her and even doubted God a few times. She was raised with a life of travel and a mother who would do everything for her (cook, clean her room, etc…) and wanted that life in marriage, only to be severely disappointed of where we would be due to unforeseen circumstances. Her life was no where near where she wanted herself to be or where her father envisioned her. In the times where she was ready to leave (which were too numerous to account for, even during our good times when we just had one bad fight) her father was ready to wisp her away. Thankfully we lived in another state which meant I had time to try to calm her down, to have her see not everything was terrible, and that we could work it out if we tried to rework God in our lives.


But continually adding to your pain with all the little things you don’t like about your spouse, your life, your inability to make decisions, and being constantly down on yourself, all the while not having a strong relationship with God brought everything crumbling.


We had just had a fight the night before. She eats tums (the chalk) like crazy because of bread and other things. And it was causing her problems (she had an ulcer when she was younger) and potential future health issues (her mother has quite a few). Of course I was worried, and she had been on a good diet but was cheating constantly (especially with pastas/breads - Veganism). Unsurprisingly she didn’t like that. She woke up the next morning and I had already chatted her that I was sorry (I was at work). She tells me I’m not forgiven and we have a back and forth until she says “It’s OK”. Little did I know that would be the last thing I would see from her. She had already called her father, looked up divorce in the state and they were on their way, taking the 10+ hour journey to come “save” her. She called up a friend she hadn’t seen but once in 5 years (but was a friend from her high school days) who lived about 2 hours south and I didn’t find any of this out until I came home from work to find the note, her stuff, and the dog (plus the only car we had and my phone which she was using) all gone. The sad thing was, for a while I would walk home after a fight and almost expect her to be gone. And this time… she was.


So I was stranded, not knowing (yet) that her parents were coming up, I started to ask for help from my family, friends, and Bishop. I was heartbroken and saddened, but not surprised, that she would go to her father first and not the leaders of the church and the friends we had built up here for years. But I knew why, as I stated earlier, he had already wanted this. And I would find out later that he would lie to me to keep me off guard. He crafted a lie about the health of his wife and that he couldn’t talk because they were in the emergency room, but they were already on their way. The next day I would find that out.


He would show up with her “old” friend with boxes (after I had just talked with him on the phone a few hours earlier, in which he said I should let her go) in hand and come in through the door without knocking. Obviously I was flustered, scared, and hurt already. So I pushed them back through the door. Her friend would call me an abuser (though I’ve never physically hurt my wife and never cursed at her), but later apologize. My friend showed up just after that and we would drive down (remember she was using my phone, which I could track) to the hotel that was last spotted by my phone. It was there that my Aunt would show up and help get the car back and the phone. She has had a lot of problems with men in the past (long story, none are her fault) and knew what to do and what to say, especially in regards to the Law in the state we are in and that they were leaving the state.


The next day around 10 or so at night they would drive back. Her note said the next thing I would see from her is divorce papers. I’ve always thought we could work through anything. My family told me that constantly threatening divorce isn’t healthy, which I knew but I didn’t do anything (even though I should have). I love her and I don’t want anyone to think bad about her. We all have our problems, and I’m not giving you all the wonderful things we have done over the years. She is my companion, my friend, and even though we’ve had fights and we’ve both done stupid things, I thought we would come through. We didn’t fight constantly (big ones sometimes that would lead to her threats), we had just had a fantastic week of positive things, I don’t believe she pre planned this. She just decided that morning, because that’s how quickly her demeanor can change and how stubborn and prideful she can get. She had found old e-mails for more than 4 years ago to those personal ads (that I never deleted, because I was trying to be open) and used those as her weapon along with that fight.


I ask anyone who is reading this to not judge her to harshly (though you can judge me all you want). I would have never left (even though she was struggling with the thought of children and had other issues). I write this because I want to use the anonymity of the internet to write things out and hear from others. I’m going to counseling, I’ve seen the bishop multiple times, my extended family is here, and one of my parents is coming up soon as well. We are taking precautionary steps and doing our best to make sure that we fix me. My bishop holds hope, as do I, that over time (maybe months, even years) she can work through things. I’ll be fasting and praying for her and myself to see through this problem. But I have to be a realist as well. Hope for the best, prepare for the worst as it goes.


Thank you for reading.

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I am sorry for you pain and suffering....

 

I have only one bit of advice...  You can not hold on to someone that does not want to be held on to.

 

Scratch that I have two...  Talk to a lawyer, you might not want a divorce but you might just get one anyways... So talk to a lawyer so you can be prepared, to challenge the lies that seems almost guaranteed to show up (From what you say) if she follows through

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Koawinter, I am an attorney and I do a lot of divorce.  I'm not going to presume to give you legal advice, but I would note that I was at a continuing education seminar in the last year hat was held by some family therapists.  One of the points they made was that it usually takes about five years to emotionally recover from a divorce--but that in their experience, the party who files the divorce paperwork is already about three years into that process.

 

Now, I have no way of knowing whether your wife is actually serious about this, or whether this is just some huge drama thing calculated to get your attention.  If the latter--your family's right, that's not healthy; and the drama/threats of divorce are going to have to end before your marriage can be rebuilt. 

 

If the former, be aware that it's very probable that she's already emotionally checked out of the marriage, and has been checked out on some level for quite some time.  I can add my own experience to this and say that in five years of divorce practice, I have had two clients whose divorce proceedings were dismissed due to their reconciliation.  It's very uncommon--certainly possible; but rare.  If you're hoping to reconcile, you need to understand that from her perspective getting back with you would not be "saving" the marriage; it would be building a new one from scratch.  You've got a lot of work to do; and I do wish you all the best as you try to figure out how to move forward.

 

Oh, and the porn addiction?  Addiction recovery groups.

Edited by Just_A_Guy
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I think I read everything but I don't see what you are "asking" for. What I get is she didn't leave you, you left her. You describe your behaviors to the point where I can't see past your fault in the marriage. Did she have fault? Yes. But honestly you describe a train wreck of a relationship. It doesn't sound like there are children involved. I suggest you take some time and mature a bit more before expecting to be in a marriage. You are young enough and poor enough that there is no loss here. Don't tell us you love her and need her. If you can't keep your finger off a computer mouse, you can't keep a wife and job and children.

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I think I read everything but I don't see what you are "asking" for. What I get is she didn't leave you, you left her. You describe your behaviors to the point where I can't see past your fault in the marriage. Did she have fault? Yes. But honestly you describe a train wreck of a relationship. It doesn't sound like there are children involved. I suggest you take some time and mature a bit more before expecting to be in a marriage. You are young enough and poor enough that there is no loss here. Don't tell us you love her and need her. If you can't keep your finger off a computer mouse, you can't keep a wife and job and children.

 

I wrote this post to gain perspective from outside my family, friend, and spiritual circles that are close to me. The story that I relayed to you is known by both my parents and my bishp.

 

I appreciate your response. I know that I've had my problems. But I'm not really sure how to respond to you. I never said I "need" her. What I need is to be better. What she needs is to somehow find her testimony, which is, I would say, would be non existant throughout our over 6 years together. Like I mentioned above, she didn't want any help with her spiritual problems. I want to avoid saying what those are, but essentialy they are; the females role, whether or not God loves her, and a problem with mans role towards women. She never sought a bishops help, never sought a professional, or anything else.

 

I know my problems, I've sought help for mine and got the largest problem to the point where I can't even imagine doing it. I need to go back to resolve a problem which runs deeper than the thoughts of infidelity through physical intercourse. And that's a revert that I feel through seeing an image and immediately getting that temptation, through boredom, and what seems like a repetitive behavoir that needs professional help to resolve (which I tried for over 6 months before having to leave because of an injury). It runs for close to 2 decades with a few years off in the middle (some 4-5 I'd say). And large gaps after my initial therapy sessions. My response to all of this was to seek out my bishop, my ward, and to see if I could exterminate the remaining problem of my life.

 

She does not know how to resolve her problems. Her lack of spirituality in our home also caused issues where I couldn't depend on her to suggest anything spiritual. And for someone like me who on occassion would have problems, that is difficult. I know that isn't a justification, and I don't want it to be. Her response to all of this was to run, to go to a family that never wanted this, and to be with friends that don't even know who she is anymore. I'm not sure she will seek counsel, talk to a bishop, or anything of that kind. At least for a while she will not do this and only later try to spiritually heal herself.

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I think you're grossly underestimating how soul-shattering it is for a woman to have to compete with a pornography addiction. That is has escalated to the point that you are even looking at "listings" online says that the one and only thing you need to worry about is getting help with your addiction immediately. Stop focusing on where you see her falling short, because the truth is, she is someone you don't know anymore and her faith is struggling because (most likely) of what she's going through with your addiction.

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I think you're grossly underestimating how soul-shattering it is for a woman to have to compete with a pornography addiction. That is has escalated to the point that you are even looking at "listings" online says that the one and only thing you need to worry about is getting help with your addiction immediately. Stop focusing on where you see her falling short, because the truth is, she is someone you don't know anymore and her faith is struggling because (most likely) of what she's going through with your addiction.

 

Like I said earlier. I haven't looked at listings... in years. I'm not trying to look for her faults. I know that she is a fantastic person and I know her qualities. I'm not trying to justify anything here. I know that I messed up, but I've gone to the bishop, I've gone through the repentance process for that injury (that was 3 years ago). What we've been dealing with now is the destruction of the remaining issues, which are few and far between, for myself.

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If you want to have her come back to you, be the husband she should come back to.

 

I agree. I can do nothing but help me now. Which is what I AM doing. I'm not planning it. I'm doing it. That is my only hope here.

 

But I also want her to have this time to help herself. I can want both can't I?

Edited by koawinter
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Guest LiterateParakeet

I'm so sorry about the pain that both of you are experiencing. I disagree that you bare the blame alone. I also don't think you are trying to place all the blame on her.

From what you have said here I would be very surprised if your wife is not a survivor of sexual abuse....there are so many signs here. I'm a survivor too which means I have a certain bias, but it also makes the signs more clear to me.

Pornography is a huge problem in the church. I heard the rate is about 60-70% in my ward...knowing that makes me want to urge wives to be more patient and yet as a survivor I think I would be among the least tolerant wives if my husband had Th at issue.

Finally---remember I'm just a stranger on the net so take this for what it's worth. ...but considering what JAG said..I think she has made her decision...her repeated threats of divorce show its been on her mind....I don't think you are going to be able to save your marriage. I'm very sorry.

My advice is to keep working on your issues..it sounds like you are so keep that up. Get therapy, talk to your Bishop...get free of porn, and make yourself the kind of man that your wife...or perhaps someone else if you do get divorce would want.

You probably realize you can't change your wife or solve her issues (which are numerous) and you can't change the past. But you can keep repenting and working on your issues (which are serious but not impossible to overcome.)

Again sorry for the pain you and your wife are both experiencing.

Edited by LiterateParakeet
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My apologies for having not addressed the sympathy you were seeking. I am sorry for your loss. I understand love and heartbreak.

 

I know I was harsh. I was intentionally harsh. Even reading your response, I almost feel anger in that you put more on your wife and her spirtuality when in fact you struggle with the basics yourself. Talking to the bishop is not in itself repentance. Repentance requires a change in heart. That change in heart will be evident to all and I just don't see it in your writing. Confession isn't repentance. Your wife didn't see the change.

 

You were not there in your marriage. You need to remove any thought that your wife had any responsibility. I'm not saying she didn't have a resposibility, I'm saying you cannot tie yours to hers.

 

You need to be a man. You need to step up to your role in society and not just your family and church.

 

You came to your peers for support but that isn't condolences and validation of your actions.

 

It will be a defining moment in your life and hopefully one that turns you to good and one that gives you strength to do more.

 

Lean on your family now, but don't look for a crutch.

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@pkstpaul

 

I appreciate your candor. I'm not so naive enough to think that just talking to a bishop fixes an issue. This is why your candor is appreciated. I never intended to have it look as if I was blaming her spirituality for what's happened. I'm fully aware that had I never done that, the only thing that we'd be going through is her lack of interest in children. I've experienced enough so far in order to know that that isn't even close to the amount of effort it takes. I've been there, I've felt that pain. But like any mistake, it can come back. I've asked more times than I can count why this was my curse. I hate it more than anything I can imagine. It disgusts me.

 

This time it wasn't anything large, there wasn't anything that I did that would cause her to leave. I wasn't rampantly looking at pornography or seeking other women. I had a few mistakes with pornography since that time and I've had a few thoughts (but never acted on them). I know that it needs to be completely gone in my life and hopefully this period will exterminate it for good (regardless of whether she comes back). I work full time, go to church, the bishop knows enough that he hasn't prohibited any temple attendance, and had been praying (myself making those prayers) with my wife off and on for 3 years (and more recently doing so every day for a while). Once again, this isn't a justification, I'd come back from a very low point in my life and have been getting better every day since my confession.

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@kaowinter

I'm not a seasoned forum poster but in the time I have been on this forum I have heard stories very similar to yours repeated several times. Sometimes the OP posts a story and then disappears. One wonders if they are only looking for validation of their actions. Sometimes, they come back and carry a dialog as you are doing, but I think it rare. So, when I post a quick response, it is generally with the expectation the OP might come looking for immediate validation and then doesn't return to see the give an take that happens among the forum members. Even then, you generally find two camps: one that will support you and the sanctity of marriage and one that might tell you run. I almost always lie on the "save the marriage" side.

 

That is why I was so hard on you.

 

Marriage is hard. It takes work. It takes patience and tolerance. It sounds like you are working on it. It sounds like you want to save it. My advice is to work on her terms. A divorce doesn't happen overnight. You work out a separation and you work on getting together. I personally think you put too much weight on her spirituality. Her spirituality is personal to her (not withstanding the marriage covenant). She should be allowed time to work out her spiritual health; a lifetime. Plenty of members live with inactive and non-member spouses. They find other things to pull them together. To focus on her inactivty is probably offensive to her.

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@kaowinter

I'm not a seasoned forum poster but in the time I have been on this forum I have heard stories very similar to yours repeated several times. Sometimes the OP posts a story and then disappears. One wonders if they are only looking for validation of their actions. Sometimes, they come back and carry a dialog as you are doing, but I think it rare. So, when I post a quick response, it is generally with the expectation the OP might come looking for immediate validation and then doesn't return to see the give an take that happens among the forum members. Even then, you generally find two camps: one that will support you and the sanctity of marriage and one that might tell you run. I almost always lie on the "save the marriage" side.

 

That is why I was so hard on you.

 

Marriage is hard. It takes work. It takes patience and tolerance. It sounds like you are working on it. It sounds like you want to save it. My advice is to work on her terms. A divorce doesn't happen overnight. You work out a separation and you work on getting together. I personally think you put too much weight on her spirituality. Her spirituality is personal to her (not withstanding the marriage covenant). She should be allowed time to work out her spiritual health; a lifetime. Plenty of members live with inactive and non-member spouses. They find other things to pull them together. To focus on her inactivty is probably offensive to her.

 

I agree. Everything you said. I am wholly responsible for the lack of progress spiritually for both of us because of my issues. I have to weed out the final bit of toxicity within myself. I've tried for 2 decades now. I know it can't go on anymore. I want to. There can't be anymore more buts. It's just really difficult.

 

Once again, thank you for your candor.

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...What she needs is to somehow find her testimony, which is, I would say, would be non existant throughout our over 6 years together. Like I mentioned above, she didn't want any help with her spiritual problems. I want to avoid saying what those are, but essentialy they are; the females role, whether or not God loves her, and a problem with mans role towards women. She never sought a bishops help, never sought a professional, or anything else.

 

First time poster here, and only theoretically familiar with LDS folk, so I apologize in advance. I mean this with utmost respect, but what exactly is the female's role in your view, koawinter? Also, what is the man's role toward women? Last of all, how did your wife demonstrate that she had a (spiritual?) problem with these? Thank you again for your patience.

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Too often those who do not personally struggle with addiction simply say "stop the addictive behavior."  I can only imagine how many times you hav told yourself that already.  Please do not misinterpret what I am saying as not condoning your addiction.  In addition to working with your bishop, get professional help and avail yourself to addiction recovery resources including https://addictionrecovery.lds.org. 

 

Also, you have not indicated that children are involved, so that should make things much better.

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