Contention


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It is when two people know they are right but are frustrated by the inability to compose a argument in the form the other person can understand. Two people with different backgrounds and experiences may actually agree on point but are unable to express their views in a way the other can understand. And then...sometimes people are idiots. :)

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Far to often in life the fear of contention prevents rigorous, thoughtful debate and discussion.  I'm not thinking of LDS.net in particular.  Rather, our culture--especially with younger people, seems more averse to disagreement.  We are too quick to shut down healthy discussions about differences, for fear of contention.

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For Us LDS we have 3 Nephi 11

 

 

 29 For verily, verily I say unto you, he that hath the spirit of acontention is not of me, but is of the bdevil, who is the father of contention, and he stirreth up the hearts of men to contend with anger, one with another.

 30 Behold, this is not my doctrine, to stir up the hearts of men with anger, one against another; but this is my doctrine, that such things ashould be done away.

 

 

Now clearly this calls out having the Spirit of Contention....  The scripture show Christ contented with other when he cleared the temple, withstood the temptations of Satan, called out the local leaders etc.   I think this shows that we can have spirited disagreements without having the spirit of Contention.

 

Its just that it can be really hard to do so.

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It is my belief that a contentious spirit is someone that initiates the fires of anger or adds fuel to that fire.   I believe a very good example are those that insight protesters to violence.    I sometimes wonder about protesters as well.

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I grew up in a family that tended to stay away from contention.  I remember being quite frightened when visiting with distant family and they were fighting amongst themselves.  I didn't know how to deal with it.  To this day, I have a hard time around contentious folk.  Because I haven't been around it much, I wonder it if has made it difficult for me to excel in debates.

 

I had a real good example of the Spirit leaving me several Sundays ago due to a contentious moment.  It was while the Sacrament was being passed.  We had a young 10-year-old (almost) step-brother of my grandson visiting us. I say (almost) because grandson's dad hasn't married his girlfriend yet.  The "deal" we had made, was that he could spend the weekend with us, but we would all be going to church together.  During the middle of Sacrament, he asked if he could walk home.  (This young man tends to be a handful, and pushes the limit whenever he can).  I lost my temper, and shushed him, angrily whispered "No, absolutely not.  We made a deal--you go to church with us."  As soon as I said those words, I could feel that the Spirit had left me.  It felt "dark".  I didn't even realize that the Spirit was with me until it left.  It was so immediate, and very obvious to me when the Spirit left.  I spent the rest of Sacrament meeting rueing my outburst, and asking for forgiveness.  I could have handled it better.

Edited by classylady
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I grew up in a very contentious home. I think a little contention is inevitable since we are imperfect people. Resisting the natural man is a life long battle, and we will fall sometimes. I think the degree of contention in the home can be a gauge. It can serve as a yellow or red flag for specific problems that need to be addressed. I know contention in the home is not a good thing. The less contention, the better. The spirit will not stick around with contention, but it can come back :)

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The problem I have yet to reconcile in my own thinking and actions concerning contention is that there is, like many things in the gospel, a seeming contradiction in various principles therein. Some of these seeming contradictions are, perhaps, difficult to truly understand, but easy to act on. For example, lose yourself to find yourself. That may be difficult to comprehend, but it's easy to give up yourself and serve others (well..."easy" being a relative word...easy in theory) even if you don't understand.

 

But in this particular case, how to actually act is more difficult. The contradictory ideas here are have no contention, of course, and defending/standing up for the gospel and for truth.

 

One can even take this thinking to extreme scriptural examples. Turn the other cheek being the one idea, (perhaps the most extreme example being the Anti-Nephi-Lehis submitting to death) and defend your families even unto bloodshed. Of course if one literally takes defending the family as the only reason to defend unto bloodshed it's a bit easier, but the wide variety of justifiable war examples in the scriptures clearly indicates it is more complicated than that.

 

I know there are answers from a logical viewpoint that can resolve the idea mentally -- the primary one being to follow the Holy Spirit (as in reproving betimes with sharpness when moved upon by the Holy Spirit), but in practice it's quite a bit more messy than that.

 

I see a great trend towards tolerance, understanding, kindness, etc. in the church and in the world. Who could possibly claim such things are problematic? Well...once more, it's complicated in practice. Of course these things are important. But when we lie down and let the enemy walk all over us in the name of kindness, is that really the best course? Moreso, when we lie down and let the enemy walk all over the gospel, our neighbors, our friends, our families, destroying them bit by bit with lies, and we say nothing in the name of turning the other cheek, tolerance and kindness, and watch with a smile on our faces as all we love is dragged to hell -- all in the name of love and kindness?

 

And yet, on the other hand, as much as I justify a lot of the so-called "contention" I create by trying to defend the gospel, there are certainly a great many times when I have offended or spoken unkindly where I know I stepped beyond what was appropriate. Of course hindsight is 20/20. It's significantly easier to see that you've hurt someone's feelings and realize at that point, "oh...yeah...I could have said that better".

 

But this challenge, in my mind, is a HUGE one that needs to be faced in today's world. The powers of Satan only grow -- and this means that those of us who stand as servants in God's armies must defend with even more vigor. And yet we must also do so, somehow, without contention. I have yet to reconcile how this is done.

Edited by The Folk Prophet
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On a more serious note....  ;)

 

To avoid contention does *not* mean to avoid disagreeing on things.  We can disagree on things, talk about them, and still be filled with charity.  I think that such is very Christ-like.

 

I see contention being a completely separate thing from agree/disagreeing about a topic.  After all, I've seen plenty of people get in the most bitter angry fights about a topic that both parties completely agree on....

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I believe there is one other dimension.  Various mental disorders can be a source of contention.   My late mother-in-law had a bipolar problem and at times she was so contentious that I could not deal with her except to completely ignore and not respond at all to anything she was saying or doing.  This was especially difficult when my children or grandchildren were involved.  Sadly the last few days before her passing was the only really pleasant experience I had with her as her personality completely changed and she became so sweet it brought me to tears.

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What is NO contention: Just_A_Guy and I debating and disagreeing in a lot of things and yet keeping it always respectful and civil. So far so good. lol

 

What is contention: People FIGHTING hard to be right rather than exchange views and try to learn from others. Silly, in my view.

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If I see 3 Nephi 11 right, it says contention with anger.

Contention without anger is ok.

I think contention, in the sense of spirited debate is essential.  This is the only way that we can come to understand the ideas of others.

I think the thing to be avoided is the anger.

I think with children, they should not be disciplined with anger;  or with emotion.  But they should be disciplined.

A legal case is a contention.  One side takes one position and the other, a different position.  Swords and anger are not used.  But the court system.

dc

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This echoes what others have said, but I like Winston Churchill a whole lot so I'm adding it anyway. I consider this to be true when said of argument, which is the same as contention only minus the anger:

 

"Criticism may not be agreeable, but it is necessary. It fulfils the same function as pain in the human body. It calls attention to an unhealthy state of things."

 

 

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What is NO contention: Just_A_Guy and I debating and disagreeing in a lot of things and yet keeping it always respectful and civil. So far so good. lol

What is contention: People FIGHTING hard to be right rather than exchange views and try to learn from others. Silly, in my view.

It is a strength to keep things respectful and civil. It is not always easy to do. I don't always think of fighting, being passionate comes to mind. I think passion is a good thing. It is an impossible balance, being passionate and not stepping on anyone's toes. There is always someone that might be offended or disagree. I don't think we should go out of our way to offend either, even if it provides mental stimulation. It really is a delicate balance with inevitable offending and being offended. Do we give up and shut up or keep on going? My one cent. Edited by Treble.clef
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What is NO contention: Just_A_Guy and I debating and disagreeing in a lot of things and yet keeping it always respectful and civil. So far so good. lol

What is contention: People FIGHTING hard to be right rather than exchange views and try to learn from others. Silly, in my view.

Respectful, civil, silly- those are your opinions. Other people may not agree. What is non-civil to you can be civil to someone else. We have the moderators for this site. I think they do their job. We have to use our own best judgement but full speed ahead Edited by Treble.clef
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It is a strength to keep things respectful and civil. It is not always easy to do. I don't always think of fighting, being passionate comes to mind. I think passion is a good thing. It is an impossible balance, being passionate and not stepping on anyone's toes. There is always someone that might be offended or disagree. I don't think we should go out of our way to offend either, even if it provides mental stimulation. It really is a delicate balance with inevitable offending and being offended. Do we give up and shut up or keep on going? My one cent.

 

Oh no, don't take me wrong. I believe being passionate about our beliefs is a good thing! And yes part of a debate as well. I welcome it. But we have to be careful, being passionate isn't an excuse to be discourteous, it doesn't mean to depreciate or become uncivil . That's the issue I have when genuine people wish to establish an intelligent debate and these things get in the middle.

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