Interracial Marriage


Recommended Posts

So a quote and the link from where I got it

 

“We recommend that people marry those who are of the same racial background generally, and of somewhat the same economic and social and educational background (some of those are not an absolute necessity, but preferred), and above all, the same religious background, without question” (“Marriage and Divorce,” in 1976 Devotional Speeches of the Year [Provo: Brigham Young University Press, 1977], p. 144).

 

https://www.lds.org/manual/aaronic-priesthood-manual-3/lesson-31-choosing-an-eternal-companion?lang=eng

 

Am I the only one who thinks that this might have slipped through the cracks....clearly an outdated quote, but still in our current curriculum. (specifically the racial background part)

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I don't find anything terribly objectionable about the quote.  Even within the US, there is often a "subculture" that accompanies each particular race; and marriages across such cultural norms can create tensions that may make marriage more difficult--as no less a figure than Michelle Obama's mother understood when she realized her daughter was marrying someone who was half white.

 

“I guess that I worry about races mixing because of the difficulty — not for, so much for prejudice or anything,” Robinson continued. “It’s just very hard.”

Edited by Just_A_Guy
Link to comment
Share on other sites

I never saw it as racist, more like common sense. Our general American culture seems to be increasingly approving of diversity, making interracial marriages doable without too much drama, but even then many subcultures like to keep to themselves, for better or for worse.

 

The quote isn't saying don't marry outside your race, just acknowledging that differences can be challenging. It's not a commandment from left field, just wisdom observant of social relations.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

To me, this simply sounds like an updated version of the Lord's instructions to the ancient Israelites that they not intermarry with the people in surrounding territories.

 

This morning I listened to an interesting and informed radio broadcast of a discussion about marriages between people of different cultures. The person being interviewed is in the final stages of completing her research which focussed on intercultural marriages, for which she interviewed 44 people. There was also some excellent phone-in listener contributions from the audience. It’s a good insight into, and discussion of, some of the issues that can arise with interracial marriages. The segment goes for about 20 minutes or thereabouts. It can be listened to at http://www.abc.net.au/radionational/programs/lifematters/the-impact-of-moving-overseas-for-love/6332456

 

ps

I note that in the quote above, President Kimball didn’t say we had to marry someone of the same sex...........

 

 

but I guess that went without saying back them.

 

pps

and the fact that he didn't have to say it back then, but that it might need to be said now, or in 20 years time, would be an example of how counsel on marriage may need to change from time to time.  

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Michelle Obama's mother was just re-quoted on her comments about not liking that her daughter would marry someone of mixed race. People surfaced the quote with the hope of raising some controversy. Myself, I understood her concerns and wouldn't criticize her for them. Marrying someone from a different backgound makes a marriage more difficult. Not impossible, just more difficult.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Here's an interesting situation. I have a nephew adopted from a South American country. He looks very Hispanic ( which he is by birth) and yet he knows very little Spanish and has a last name that clearly originates from Great Britain. He's engaged now to a girl who came with her parents from a South American country. She speaks English very well but her parents don't. Soon she too will have a British last name but will look Hispanic, which she is by birth. 

 

Kinda scrambled but we're happy for them.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

People have said much more objectionable things than that, even among the higher echelons of church leadership.

 

Putting aside my personal feelings on the matter, the objective statistical evidence is clear that relationships that cross cultural boundaries are more prone to failure.  This is largely due to differing expectations about communication.  And it is true when those cultural boundaries are racial, geographic, religious, political.....the list could go on forever.

 

People who have similar backgrounds have a more natural understanding of each other and their communicative patterns.  That make it much easier to resolve conflicts.

 

The other source of conflict in cross-cultural relationships tends to deal with values.  This is usually more starkly seen in the religious context, but can be true in racial contexts.

 

So, while I'm not a big fan of this quote, I'm not particularly bothered by it.  There is some objective value to it when discussed properly.  But every time I've been in a position where it's come up, I've either ignored it or pivoted to talking about communication issues.  

Link to comment
Share on other sites

So a quote and the link from where I got it

 

“We recommend that people marry those who are of the same racial background generally, and of somewhat the same economic and social and educational background (some of those are not an absolute necessity, but preferred), and above all, the same religious background, without question” (“Marriage and Divorce,” in 1976 Devotional Speeches of the Year [Provo: Brigham Young University Press, 1977], p. 144).

 

https://www.lds.org/manual/aaronic-priesthood-manual-3/lesson-31-choosing-an-eternal-companion?lang=eng

 

Am I the only one who thinks that this might have slipped through the cracks....clearly an outdated quote, but still in our current curriculum. (specifically the racial background part)

not really. It still holds true.

there are still areas in the world where getting an interracial marriage will get you killed, or getting an inter-caste marriage will do so, and etc...

And marrying someone who isn't temple worthy when you have the means and the knowing to do otherwise is a real big gamble.

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

not really. It still holds true.

there are still areas in the world where getting an interracial marriage will get you killed, or getting an inter-caste marriage will do so, and etc...

And marrying someone who isn't temple worthy when you have the means and the knowing to do otherwise is a real big gamble.

 

I fundamentally agree that the more you have in common with your spouse the easier navigating the waters of marriage will be. I mentioned this quote because I live in a part of the country where it would be extreme difficult to find a wife who was not of mixed race, the same religious background is paramount to me....There is always the exception, I hear them creeping our of the woodwork now.....

 

It just struck me that if I was giving the lesson I might skip that quote.......

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I tend to agree with the quote.

 

My marriage is interracial but where mine differs from perhaps others, is the fact that I was adopted by a Caucasian family, and raised in such culture. (Though European, not American.) I am Filipino and my husband is Dutch. But because his family is traditional Dutch and not American-Dutch, there are many things we can relate to, and our cultural backgrounds aren't so far off - only by skin colour do we seem very different.

 

I have a cousin who is Caucasian (Brit) who married a Caucasian woman (American) after serving a mission in Las Vegas. While both were "White", they're cultural backgrounds made the first few years of their marriage very challenging, and things didn't look good at one point. They made it work, however, and are still married and have a beautiful family - though - they moved to London where he works as a physician and she is so terribly homesick and hates it there... So definitely challenges.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I fundamentally agree that the more you have in common with your spouse the easier navigating the waters of marriage will be. I mentioned this quote because I live in a part of the country where it would be extreme difficult to find a wife who was not of mixed race, the same religious background is paramount to me....There is always the exception, I hear them creeping our of the woodwork now.....

 

It just struck me that if I was giving the lesson I might skip that quote.......

You certainly don't have to say it verbatim. If you understand what he's trying to teach then you can teach it in your own words. Then you can use his words to back you up. I wouldn't state it exactly the way its stated there either.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • 4 weeks later...

So a quote and the link from where I got it

 

“We recommend that people marry those who are of the same racial background generally, and of somewhat the same economic and social and educational background (some of those are not an absolute necessity, but preferred), and above all, the same religious background, without question” (“Marriage and Divorce,” in 1976 Devotional Speeches of the Year [Provo: Brigham Young University Press, 1977], p. 144).

 

https://www.lds.org/manual/aaronic-priesthood-manual-3/lesson-31-choosing-an-eternal-companion?lang=eng

 

Am I the only one who thinks that this might have slipped through the cracks....clearly an outdated quote, but still in our current curriculum. (specifically the racial background part)

This is before 1978 when policy changed, but marriage is tough. You need similar education, same educational backgrounds, salaries , cultures so there a be common ideas on how to raise children. And them all these similar earnings...and then maybe you'll have a chance. There is no, perfect situation.
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Guest MormonGator

Um, no. 

 

it's a dated quote, and it's as offensive now as it was then. I'm white and I've dated many minority girls in my life. There is no problem with interracial couples whatsoever.  It's 2015 and that way of thinking makes all of us LDS people look bad.  I'd rather marry someone who is an active LDS temple gal (I'm a guy) because that's something she can control. You can't control race. 

 

In fact, before I joined the church one of my main concerns was the blacks in the priesthood issue. I'm glad it was changed in 1978. 

Edited by MormonGator
Link to comment
Share on other sites

it's a dated quote, and it's as offensive now as it was then. I'm white and I've dated many minority girls in my life. There is no problem with interracial couples whatsoever.  It's 2015 and that way of thinking really is insulting. 

 

I disagree.  I'm Filipino married to a white guy with mixed backgrounds.  We are different in most everything - from what we want to eat for dinner to the proper treatment of elderly parents and siblings to the proper discipline of children to the proper use of money, etc. etc.   I will be the first to tell you that type of marriage is very difficult.

 

The "generally" part of that statement is what makes it work.  America is known for its immigrant melting pot status and with the advent of the internet the world seems to have shrunk down to the size of a peanut.  So you will find white Americans, black Americans, yellow Americans, brown Americans, etc. etc. etc. - all Americans.  So, when you intermarry between these colors, the differences are not as stark because, first and foremost, they are Americans growing up in the American culture.  But, even in America, there are pockets of cultures that don't inter-mingle much - Italians in New Jersey, Amish in Ohio, Cubans in Florida, Chinese in California, etc. etc.  They may be Americans but they retain (and prefer to retain) most of their culture.  But these differences are really stark when you go across countries - Filipinos are unique in such that they are well known for their hospitality - that is, the culture lend to taking a backseat to foreign customs in foreign lands as well as foreign visitors to the country.  So, they are conditioned to be more open to diversity.  But, try marrying a Chinese boy in China outside of Hongkong and Shanghai... or an Iranian... or an East Indian... especially ones that do not share your religious background...  It IS tough.  You have Americans marrying Americans having an awful divorce rate... imagine magnifying that to the degree of differences across cultures.

 

But, can it be done?  Of course!  My husband and I are going on 18 years!  But, that's because divorce, for us, is not an option.  For 8 years out of those 10 we are at each other's throats!

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Guest MormonGator

I disagree. 

 

 

Most of the time I don't even agree with myself!  :)

If we agreed on everything the internet would be pointless. 

Edited by MormonGator
Link to comment
Share on other sites

it's a dated quote, and it's as offensive now as it was then. I'm white and I've dated many minority girls in my life. There is no problem with interracial couples whatsoever.  It's 2015 and that way of thinking makes all of us LDS people look bad.  I'd rather marry someone who is an active LDS temple gal (I'm a guy) because that's something she can control. You can't control race. 

 

In fact, before I joined the church one of my main concerns was the blacks in the priesthood issue. I'm glad it was changed in 1978.

You are correct, it is insulting and bad doctrine. I grew up in the segregated South...I never understood the hatred. :( When I went into the Army in 1976, I realized how silly racism of any kind is, and how unchristian in every way. But, also living in Atlanta, and growing up during the civil rights movement, helped me to see the truth...that and Godly parents.
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Guest MormonGator

You are correct, it is insulting and bad doctrine. I grew up in the segregated South...I never understood the hatred. :(

 

I grew up in the north where there is just as much racism but it's combined with a snotty superiority complex. 

Edited by MormonGator
Link to comment
Share on other sites

And marrying someone who isn't temple worthy when you have the means and the knowing to do otherwise is a real big gamble.

 

 

 

My marriage is interracial--international even.  It works well.  We communicate, understand each other, know that we come from different upbringings and cultures, but that we share like precious faith.  We are Christians first, and we do share blood--that of Christ!  So, I can understand those who are cautious about interracial marriage.  To me it's archaic, but I get it.  Interfaith marriages?  I may be the most conservative poster on the board, when it comes to that.  In my mind it's not just a real big gamble, it is rebellion against the clear command of God, through the Apostle Paul, that we not be unequally yoked.  Of course, exception is made for those who converted after marriage.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Guest MormonGator

I'm curious then...how do you reconcile the clear "racist" ideas in the Bible and Book of Mormon?

In fairness, the LDS church has refuted the more objectionable parts of the book of Mormon when it comes to race. Anyone using it to validate racism would and should be condemned by the church and 90% of mainstream LDS. 

Edited by MormonGator
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Guest MormonGator

\

WHAT!?

when it comes to race. Like I said, if you are using the book of Mormon to promote a racist ideology the mainstream church has and should condemn it. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

when it comes to race. Like I said, if you are using the book of Mormon to promote a racist ideology the mainstream church has and should condemn it. 

 

That is not what I'm choking at or asking WHAT over. I'm questioning your ridiculous claim that the church has "refuted" parts of the Book of Mormon -- you know..."the most correct of any book on earth"...

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.
Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.

Loading...
 Share