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bytor2112

Concealed Carry

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I'm curious as to WHY you feel better about it?

Do you actually believe that someone bent on murder and mayhem is going to care one whit about a sign prohibiting firearms?

 

I find that generally when people feel better about the idea of a gun free environment it's because they fear someone doing something stupid with a (legally present) gun over someone intentionally, and illegally, bringing in a gun to cause murder and mayhem. One can of course debate if the weighting of fears is grounded in the statistics (fears being very subjective things it won't matter for some people), but no belief in signs preventing someone intent on murder and mayhem using a gun from entering the premises are required to feel as Bini does. Ultimately she'll have to explain her particular situation.

Edited by Dravin

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I'm curious as to WHY you feel better about it?

Do you actually believe that someone bent on murder and mayhem is going to care one whit about a sign prohibiting firearms?

someone who is bent on murder and mayhem if they have any brains aren't going to be worried enough whether that sign is there or not. Nor if someone is dedicated to assasinating an individual is going to be deterred much by personal defense weapons.

In the case of the specific sign imaged here it actually makes a bit more sense than your usual "No weapons on the grounds, period" type signs- it's still allowing for concealed carry.

 

Ok - the signs probably mean you live in a state that allows conceal carry, and private property owners are free to post signs making it illegal.

 

How would you feel about a sign like this?

 

o6mgq0.jpg

 

 

I see signs like this around Colorado.  I snapped this picture at a hospital.  

 

Just from a purely feelings perspective, what do you feel about a business posting a sign like this?

I find nothing wrong with the location or the wording of this sign.

Depends on the business and how they run their building- but this sign's wordage allows for concealed carry. Don't know if the local laws and etc intreprets it that way tho. Generally i don't think that open carrying in public places to be very smart- and in this case that it being at a hospital its probably even a smarter thing to do.

Edited by Blackmarch

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Ok - the signs probably mean you live in a state that allows conceal carry, and private property owners are free to post signs making it illegal.

 

How would you feel about a sign like this?

 

o6mgq0.jpg

 

 

I see signs like this around Colorado.  I snapped this picture at a hospital.  

 

Just from a purely feelings perspective, what do you feel about a business posting a sign like this?

 

I'm fine with law enforcement carrying. They are actively on the lookout for problems. Still don't like civilians carrying just  because it's their right or whatever. That's my personal feelings on it, and I realise, I am in the minority in this thread.

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I'm curious as to WHY you feel better about it?

Do you actually believe that someone bent on murder and mayhem is going to care one whit about a sign prohibiting firearms?

 

There was a case not too long ago where a man (not bent on murder) entered a cinema and ended up shooting another man to death. Don't recall how many shots were fired, I think one, but one was enough and he died. The story was pretty hot when it came out. I believe there were some unfriendly words exchanged and as things got heated, the other man claimed he feared for his life, and pulled the trigger. Someone would have to dig up this news report but I think later, the man who murdered the other, confessed he should have never used lethal force and regretted his actions.

 

So, considering this situation, even if it isn't a common situation, one incident of its kind is sadly enough. I feel much better entering establishments that are a weapon/gun free environment, and that doesn't have to make sense to you, so take my personal feelings as you will.

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Depends on the business and how they run their building- but this sign's wordage allows for concealed carry.

 

Technically yes, but I'm betting it was written by some gun-ignorant boob that never had concealed carry even cross his/her mind.

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This thread has me thinking about a related subject.

Have any of you who carry a gun (concealed or otherwise) actually used it to prevent a crime or possible physical harm to yourself?

 

I'll start off by relating a story which happened to me about 18 years ago. I wasn't actually carrying at the time because I was returning from work where guns aren't allowed. But I had a Dan Wesson .357 mag in my truck and I was very much glad I did.

Like I said, I was returning from work (driving a company truck) at the end of a later than normal shift. I was on my way to a company service center where I would leave the company truck and take my own truck home. The time was around 12:30 AM on a weeknight and so there was little traffic around. About a half mile from the service center a vehicle swung in behind me from a side street and the driver immediately pulled right up within a few feet of my rear bumper. I accelerated a bit to put some distance between us but he followed suit and was once again right on my tail. I had no idea what his problem was since I had not done anything to warrant his actions? 

We had sort of a back and forth until I reached the service center and pulled into the slot next to my own truck. I jumped out of the company vehicle, quickly unlocked my truck, and then reached in under the seat and retrieved my .357. 

While this was going on I watched the other vehicle pull in and park right in front of the company truck I had been driving, blocking it from pulling back out.

Three men then piled out of the vehicle, one of whom was carrying what appeared to be an axe handle without the head. All three were cursing and I heard the words, "kill you, you ______". It was readily apparent they had been drinking. 

As the guy with the axe handle approached I brought the .357 up, cocked it, and said something to the affect that I wasn't in the mood to be pestered. 

No further explanation was necessary after the three of them saw the gun. They each scrambled back into their own vehicle while one of the men screamed at the driver, "Go, Go, Go."

 

Obviously I can't say for sure what would have happened had I not had the gun? Maybe just before the axe handle came down the guy would have said, "hey dude, we were just funnin' with ya! You should have seen your face!"

 

Whatever, but I can tell you without reservation that I was very, VERY grateful to have that gun! 

Edited by Capitalist_Oinker

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Technically yes, but I'm betting it was written by some gun-ignorant boob that never had concealed carry even cross his/her mind.

 

Upon further reflection I'm going to disagree with myself.

Anyone using the words "open carry" most likely knows what they mean, and as far as I can tell, Colorado allows local jurisdictions to ban open carry in certain buildings that are clearly posted. 

 

The sentiment is probably something like this: Hey all you open carry yahoos! If you want to conceal your firearm you're welcome to enter. But we're not interested in having a panic-stricken staff and patients just so you can make a political statement. 

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Upon further reflection I'm going to disagree with myself.

I don't think I've ever seen this happen on lds.net...

:)

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I carry...sign or not.....especially Walmart  :eek:  I would imagine that had someone been carrying at the theater in Colorado there would be a few less dead people and more of the tax payers dollars available for other things than being spent on prosecuting the crazed killer.

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There's a law deliberated in Florida to allow resource officers to carry a concealed firearm in Florida public schools. It went to the State Senate twice before but died. This time, a democrat in the state senate is going to sponsor the bill... This would be interesting....

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There's a law deliberated in Florida to allow resource officers to carry a concealed firearm in Florida public schools. It went to the State Senate twice before but died. This time, a democrat in the state senate is going to sponsor the bill... This would be interesting....

 

Mrs Bytor is a High School Principal and assures me that many administrators keep a firearm close by.....(North Florida)

Edited by bytor2112

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There was a case not too long ago where a man (not bent on murder) entered a cinema and ended up shooting another man to death. Don't recall how many shots were fired, I think one, but one was enough and he died. The story was pretty hot when it came out. I believe there were some unfriendly words exchanged and as things got heated, the other man claimed he feared for his life, and pulled the trigger. Someone would have to dig up this news report but I think later, the man who murdered the other, confessed he should have never used lethal force and regretted his actions.

 

So, considering this situation, even if it isn't a common situation, one incident of its kind is sadly enough. I feel much better entering establishments that are a weapon/gun free environment, and that doesn't have to make sense to you, so take my personal feelings as you will.

The major problem is, there is no such thing as a "weapon/gun free environment".  That's just a fantasy.

 

I like to go to places where it seems to me the good guys have more guns than the bad guys.  Because the first rule of the bad guy is, don't pay no attention to no sign.

dc

Edited by David13

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Upon further reflection I'm going to disagree with myself.

Anyone using the words "open carry" most likely knows what they mean, and as far as I can tell, Colorado allows local jurisdictions to ban open carry in certain buildings that are clearly posted. 

 

The sentiment is probably something like this: Hey all you open carry yahoos! If you want to conceal your firearm you're welcome to enter. But we're not interested in having a panic-stricken staff and patients just so you can make a political statement. 

Cappy

So what you are saying is that a law enforcement officer can never enter, because the staff and patients will be struck with panic upon seeing their gun?

 

Anatess

I argue with myself all the time. 

dc

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Cappy

So what you are saying is that a law enforcement officer can never enter, because the staff and patients will be struck with panic upon seeing their gun?

 

The sign clearly makes an exception for law enforcement officers, and seeing a man in a police uniform carrying a gun is a pretty common sight and I doubt anyone gets bug-eyed when they see it.

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Technically yes, but I'm betting it was written by some gun-ignorant boob that never had concealed carry even cross his/her mind.

For the sign pictured (it's wording) and the location it is at, I don't completely agree. If this was something like 7-11 then ya you'd probably be more right, or if it was banning all weapons from non-authority personnell instead of just open carry weapons.

-it's a hospital, they are going to be doing their darndest to keep people who are going to be in there who are potentially from all sorts of different backgrounds and locations from getting agitated and stressed as much as possible. For a lot of people, weapons stress them out- most likely from very unwarranted and unfounded fears.

in this specific case i actually agree quite a bit with the sign.

Edit: Missed your self-disagreement post lol.... which probably makes most of this post null.

Edited by Blackmarch

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So, considering this situation, even if it isn't a common situation, one incident of its kind is sadly enough. I feel much better entering establishments that are a weapon/gun free environment, and that doesn't have to make sense to you, so take my personal feelings as you will.

 

Bini, I'm not picking on you nor am I calling you out for your feelings and opinions.  I have just wanted to have this question answered by someone who feels as you do.

 

Do you think these signs and laws keep criminals from having guns and/or using them?  If so, how do the signs/laws do that?

 

If not, then can you help me understand why one who feels as you do feels safer that there aren't any law abiding citizens (other than law enforcement) carrying a gun (concealed or not) who could have the potential to protect themselves or other innocent people? I use the word "could" here deliberately--killing a person (and if you shoot someone, your intention IS to kill as it is a deadly weapon that only has the potential to maim) is a serious undertaking that not everyone is prepared to do.  

 

I know of several people who feel as you do, Bini.  I've just never asked them.  I really am trying to understand (again, I understand that not everyone feels comfortable with weapons and their potential).

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Life got easier for me to comprehend, when I internalized the following:

 

Lawbreakers, by definition, break laws.

Law abiding people, by definition, obey laws.

Conclusion - In the US, if you pass a law restricting firearms, the law abiding will follow it and become weaker.  And the lawbreakers will not follow it, and remain strong.

 

This image helped me come to grips with reality.  I post it here, not as a cheap shot in the discussion, but because it really did have an impact on my thinking:

zombie-free-zone.jpg

Edited by NeuroTypical

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Okay, I'll speak on the side of Bini (but not for Bini - she probably has a completely different opinion):

The people who are uncomfortable with firearms in public places - like that store that has the no firearms sign - are not as concerned about lawbreakers as they are concerned about the law-abiders. They look at it this way:

1.) A lawbreaker entering that same store has a lower probability of happening than a law-abider entering that same store with a firearm.

2.) The probability of somebody getting killed (either accidental or intentional) by a law-abider is perceptively the same as the probability of somebody getting killed by a lawbreaker.

3.) Law enforcement officers mitigate the risk of lawbreakers in the store. There is no mitigation for law-abiders.

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RPGs and MBTs are useful for hardened targets - criminals aren't hardened in that way.  Landmines are indiscriminately killing anyone who steps on them - useful only you know where the enemy is, and if there are no innocents in the area  - I'm having a hard time seeing why a good guy would want that.  

 

None of those are really useful in self-defense scenarios.  So I'd have to say no, we shouldn't be doing the opposite and legislating more civilian access to stuff like that.  

 

I mean, I guess it wasn't totally intended as a serious question, but there's the serious answer.

Edited by NeuroTypical

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For many years I have gone to gun ranges.  I'm going this Saturday.  Just on our private range there will be 50 people of all ages.  And several hundred guns.  We will each shoot many dozen rounds.  We will stop for lunch and bbq.  Then back to shooting.

At the canyon range will be several hundred people shooting many many guns.  Like there is every day. 

There are several dozen ranges all around Los Angeles where the same will occur.

I have gone to ranges all over the western states, and basically it's the same.

There are probably 100 million gun owners in the USA and more shooters, and far more guns.

And yet thru' all of this nobody gets shot.

And you equate that to going to a "gun free" cinema where some psycho comes in and starts shooting 5 or 10 or 20 people, and the cops show up, what 15, 20, 30 minutes later.

And this is the same thing?

Not quite.

dc

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Eowyn, I would highly recommend you pay for firearm training from a competant instructor before purchasing a pistol.  So many people I see with firearms are either consciously incompetant or more often unconsciously incompetant.  It is not hard to learn how to shoot and what the legal parameters of deadly force are, but it will not come from simply buying handgun.

 

I believe in a well trained militia made up of the common people.  Good training can cost you up to $500 or more.  Anyone who carries a handgun should know their local laws and be able to hit a 8.5 inch x 11 inch target from five yards away with their chosen weapon. 

 

If you want advice on instructors I can point you toward certain avenues.  Just personal message me.

 

Do people freak out when they can tell you're carrying? For me it's kind of a comfort... for instance, a friend of mine and our kids went camping without our husbands last summer, and the guys across from us were carrying. I don't know why, but it made me feel safer, even though I didn't know them. My friend felt exactly the opposite, but she detests guns. My brother-in-law always carries and I find it a comfort to have him around. I'm going to get licensed as soon as I can afford a gun.

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I think a lot of people detest guns because they fear guns.  And they fear guns because they know nothing about guns.  So even if anyone doesn't buy a gun, they can rent a gun at a gun range, usually only with another person.  And I would encourage them to do so, to get out and find out what it really is.  And isn't.

They can come out to an event like we had yesterday.   BBQ and all day shooting at the outdoor range.  Free instruction available, and everyone is willing to let you try their gun, in fact many offer.

All under very controlled conditions.  Most of the people there are well experienced with guns, ex military, NRA Range Security Officers, or Instructors.  And everyone able to watch others to be sure that they are safe for themselves and for their neighbor.

But also some young people who were able to have some fun trying various guns.

And conquering any fears they may have had.

dc

 

But if you do buy a gun, get training, and practice.

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