blueskye Posted June 23, 2015 Report Share Posted June 23, 2015 When heaven hands out cigs and cigars to Jesus I will be looking forward to observing your "in your face mormons!" victory dance..lolUsing tired arguments I haven't encountered since high school, its no wonder your feeling ill at ease amongst the LDS.Our own personal incense. Ha. JkSmoking is bad, seriously. It's a guilty pleasure, not engaged in often, for me. A cigar now and then. Utah tax on cigars is astronomical, so it's not something to do every day. Wine is for the weekends. A glass of two. I don't enjoy getting drunk. Moderation in all things. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blueskye Posted June 23, 2015 Report Share Posted June 23, 2015 (edited) Uhm, no we don't. LDS view material wealth as... uhm... material wealth... you know, "Be in the world but not OF the world?". Of course, individual Mormons have their own level of understanding of what that is. But, they don't reflect "LDS view..." - because that's saying the Church teaches it.This is also not true. Those who take the vow of Holy Orders make the vow of poverty. But, that doesn't mean that they look at material wealth as opposite of being Christian. Rather, they see material wealth as something you use to help others.All in all - the Catholic AND LDS view on material wealth is EXACTLY THE SAME. Prosperity indicates righteousness, for LDS. Absolutely NOT for Catholics.https://www.lds.org/general-conference/1992/10/the-lord-will-prosper-the-righteous?lang=engLDS are not the only teachers of the health and wealth gospel. :) But it is not a gospel the Catholic Church teaches. Edited June 23, 2015 by blueskye Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted June 23, 2015 Report Share Posted June 23, 2015 (edited) The pharisee and scribes did well along external show along compliance.... Jesus made it clear not to be like them, and my Catholic friend simply being real and relaxed, you attack? For what purpose, and I have to ask, how in shape you are? Me? Jesus drank the forbidden "wine" on the last supper, he would be super due for a cig or cigar from heaven for all that's to come about his path on the next..... something none of us would volunteer for, but He Did! Post your heart here my friend, all of you Catholic or LDS or what ever! I have a sick feeling along LDS so far, it's getting deeper the longer I put up with them.... I know, not PC but I'm also being real! Wait... I think I missed something... which post was the attack? It would be awesome if you can quote it or reference it so I can see what happened there. I read through everything and I must have missed it. Thanks Trumpetguy. Edited June 23, 2015 by anatess Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Folk Prophet Posted June 23, 2015 Report Share Posted June 23, 2015 I have a sick feeling along LDS so far, it's getting deeper the longer I put up with them.... I read through the thread looking for what atrocity or contention could have possibly brought on such an accusation. But there was only one post that had a "sick feeling" to it. I'll leave it to others to determine on their own which one it was. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted June 23, 2015 Report Share Posted June 23, 2015 Prosperity indicates righteousness, for LDS. Absolutely NOT for Catholics. https://www.lds.org/general-conference/1992/10/the-lord-will-prosper-the-righteous?lang=eng LDS are not the only teachers of the health and wealth gospel. :) But it is not a gospel the Catholic Church teaches. Now I understand why you left the LDS Church... you didn't understand this one simple talk. I'll give you a newsflash because maybe you haven't been Catholic long enough to know this - Catholics and LDS teach the exact same thing about "Riches" and "Blessings". Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted June 23, 2015 Report Share Posted June 23, 2015 I read through the thread looking for what atrocity or contention could have possibly brought on such an accusation. But there was only one post that had a "sick feeling" to it. I'll leave it to others to determine on their own which one it was. MAN! I'm completely missing what you guys are talking about! Help out a sister... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Windseeker Posted June 23, 2015 Report Share Posted June 23, 2015 Leaving the Catholic Church seems to attract the same reaction that leaving the "Hood" would. Attacking ones higher value on health or hard work and industry seems counter productive. David13 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted June 23, 2015 Report Share Posted June 23, 2015 (edited) Leaving the Catholic Church seems to attract the same reaction that leaving the "Hood" would. Attacking ones higher value on health or hard work and industry seems counter productive. And here's another newsflash - the reactions of Catholics and LDS alike are the same when one leaves a Church - as it should be. I would be more worried if nobody reacts negatively - that would mean they don't care that you're jumping off the cliff (in their own perspective). The only difference is - for a Catholic to leave the Catholic Church is going from knowledge to rejection of the Eucharist. A very dire situation when it comes to one's salvation as the only time for a Catholic to embrace Christ and repent is in mortality. An LDS leaving the LDS Church may seem not as tragic because the LDS has a firmer belief that there is salvation outside of the LDS Church in mortality and progression in the gospel continues past death. Although, the hopes for a Celestial family is compromised. Edited June 23, 2015 by anatess Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blueskye Posted June 23, 2015 Report Share Posted June 23, 2015 (edited) Now I understand why you left the LDS Church... you didn't understand this one simple talk.I'll give you a newsflash because maybe you haven't been Catholic long enough to know this - Catholics and LDS teach the exact same thing about "Riches" and "Blessings".No, they DO NOT. That talk CLEARLY teaches material wealth is a sign of righteousness. The Catholuc Church has never, and will never, teach anything of the sort. You have your head in the sand..I reach RCIA, so my priest is confident of my knowledge. So you can stop with your constant, and false, ad hominem. Face it, you do not know the Catholic faith, and should stop pretending to be an expert. Edited June 23, 2015 by blueskye Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Folk Prophet Posted June 23, 2015 Report Share Posted June 23, 2015 MAN! I'm completely missing what you guys are talking about! Help out a sister... Sorry for the lack of clarity on my part. I was attempting to imply that his unprovoked attack that something "sick" was in the air, was itself the "sick" thing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
estradling75 Posted June 23, 2015 Report Share Posted June 23, 2015 No, they DO NOT.That talk CLEARLY teaches material wealth is a sign of righteousness. The Catholuc Church has never, and will never, teach anything of the sort. You have your head in the sand..I reach RCIA, so my priest is confident of my knowledge. So you can stop with your constant, and false, ad hominem. Face it, you do not know the Catholic faith, and should stop pretending to be an expert. And you clearly don't know the LDS faith so you should stop pretending to be an expert... (see it works both ways) Leah 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Windseeker Posted June 23, 2015 Report Share Posted June 23, 2015 And here's another newsflash - the reactions of Catholics and LDS alike are the same when one leaves a Church - as it should be. Well I'm LDS and I've encountered people leaving the LDS faith for others but I don't really recall the reaction being to attack ones new found higher standards. Just strikes me as an odd reaction. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted June 23, 2015 Report Share Posted June 23, 2015 No, they DO NOT. That talk CLEARLY teaches material wealth is a sign of righteousness. The Catholuc Church has never, and will never, teach anything of the sort. You have your head in the sand.. I reach RCIA, so my priest is confident of my knowledge. So you can stop with your constant, and false, ad hominem. Face it, you do not know the Catholic faith, and should stop pretending to be an expert. Oh wow, you teach RCIA... and you didn't understand the talk you linked and how it relates to Catholic teaching and, in addition, completely missed the Catholic exegesis on Luke 18:9-14 (or maybe just failed to apply it here - no worrries, we all have our weaknesses). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted June 23, 2015 Report Share Posted June 23, 2015 Well I'm LDS and I've encountered people leaving the LDS faith for others but I don't really recall the reaction being to attack ones new found higher standards. Just strikes me as an odd reaction. Wait... I'm getting confused... are we talking about the one that were left in the old church attacking the beliefs of the new church that a member of their church moved to? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted June 23, 2015 Report Share Posted June 23, 2015 Okay, for the LDS here who may not know Catholic tradition as it relates to "Blessings of Prosperity and Material Wealth" touched on in that talk blueskye linked to: The best Catholic example that I can share with you off the top of my head is the background story of Our Lady of Good Remedy and St. John of Matha. Back in the 1100's, Christians were being taken from their homes and sold to slavery. St. John was born to wealthy and noble parents whose wealth helped him provide help to those in need and gave him opportunities for higher education. John became a priest and pledged the vow of poverty. But he desired to help these enslaved Christians to buy them out of the slave market. Having pledged poverty, he didn't have any money to accomplish the task so he formed the Order of the Trinitiarians to make money. They prayed daily for help and intercession of the Blessed Mary, Mother of Jesus, to help them prosper. Their prayers were answered and they were blessed with material wealth that they were able to use to buy thousands of Christians out of the slave market. The example of the Order of the Trinitarians devotion to Mary started the Catholic-wide devotion to Our Lady of Good Remedy with a feast day celebrated in October. St. John of Matha got canonized a Saint and the sculpture that depicts his sainthood is of Mother Mary giving him a bag of coins. A lot of Catholics who are in need of financial or material assistance pray for intercession from Our Lady of Good Remedy. I wish I had Vort's talents of story telling. I love the story of St. John of Matha and I'm fairly certain Vort could do a lot better job of telling this magnificent story to do it justice. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Leah Posted June 23, 2015 Report Share Posted June 23, 2015 Lol, haven't heard that song in a hundred years.Here's how I see it, having been on both sides of the fence.LDS view material wealth as a blessing, which indicates righteousness. The Abbeys are most righteous. Dude. I've had more than one LDS person tell me that poor Catholic countries are an indication of the nation's unrighteousness. I guarantee you, someone reading this now, agrees.Catholics view materialism as the opposite of being Christian. Rich Catholics may or may not have guilt over their good fortune. But they know the parable of the rich young man, and the pulling of a camel through the eye of a needle. LDS live in denial of this parable.My daughter knocked on the abbeys doors, while trick or treating, and came home with full size candy bars. All about the largesse, all the time. I'm sure it's funner than smoking cigarettes and watchin captain kangaroo.It is the height of folly to live in a house of sand. I recognize I move from rock to sand to rock again, through the grace of Jesus. Mormons seem to have this unrealistic confidence that they are unfamiliar with the sands. I find that to be a put off. I'd rather hang with those who know they have a need, that is filled in Jesus Christ.I don't really care if people smoke or drink, or not. Whatever. I'm an adult and I'm not doing anything sinful or illegal. I'd worry more about my soul if I were driving brand new Bentleys while a child goes naked and hungry. There is so much wrong with your post that I hardly know where to start. "LDS view material wealth as a blessing, which indicates righteousness". As others have pointed out, you haven't a clue about this. It is clear that you are ignorant when it comes to actual teachings and beliefs of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints and have a very negative viewpoint about it. And, yes, that can be true even if someone is an ex-member. Are you open to learning truth about the church or do you prefer to cling to something you latched on to from sources that are also ignorant? Are you here to learn or are you just another in a line of people who come here to tell members of the church how "wrong" we are and how right and superior you are? I am constantly baffled by people who leave the church but can't leave the church alone. Whether it's to rant and rave on ex-Mormon sites or come to forums like this one to proclaim their superiority in having joined a different church. I converted from Judaism. I have zero need or desire to run around to all the Jews telling them how "wrong" they are. Maybe if I were insecure in my new faith? Nope, not even then. As far as being an RCIA instructor automatically making you an expert in everything...or even in anything....I have enough experience with RCIA classes through family members and my own employment at a couple of Catholic institutions to know better. And in the particular instance of your knowledge versus Anatess'....if I were a betting person, my money would be on her. David13 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NightSG Posted June 23, 2015 Report Share Posted June 23, 2015 Are there Mormon funerals? Uh, what else would we do with dead people? Drag them out to the curb on bulk trash day after we go through their pockets? David13 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted June 23, 2015 Report Share Posted June 23, 2015 Uh, what else would we do with dead people? Drag them out to the curb on bulk trash day after we go through their pockets? NighSG, your wit is admirable. I love it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Leah Posted June 23, 2015 Report Share Posted June 23, 2015 No, they DO NOT.That talk CLEARLY teaches material wealth is a sign of righteousness. The Catholuc Church has never, and will never, teach anything of the sort. You have your head in the sand..I reach RCIA, so my priest is confident of my knowledge. So you can stop with your constant, and false, ad hominem. Face it, you do not know the Catholic faith, and should stop pretending to be an expert. The talk you linked to is being woefully misinterpreted by you. It is a simple talk, with a clear, simple message. The message is either beyond your grasp or you are choosing to misunderstand it because the real message does not fit with your agenda. So much irony in your last paragraph....... David13 and Windseeker 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blueskye Posted June 23, 2015 Report Share Posted June 23, 2015 Leaving the Catholic Church seems to attract the same reaction that leaving the "Hood" would. Attacking ones higher value on health or hard work and industry seems counter productive.I am attacking nothing. Hard work and industry are good things. I never said otherwise. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blueskye Posted June 23, 2015 Report Share Posted June 23, 2015 (edited) Blueskye's broad brush is quite astounding. For example:Uhm, no we don't. LDS view material wealth as... uhm... material wealth... you know, "Be in the world but not OF the world?". Of course, individual Mormons have their own level of understanding of what that is. But, they don't reflect "LDS view..." - because that's saying the Church teaches it. This is also not true. Those who take the vow of Holy Orders make the vow of poverty. But, that doesn't mean that "Catholics" look at material wealth as opposite of being Christian. If that's the case, the Vatican itself is opposite of being Christian. Rather, they see material wealth as something you use to help others.All in all - the Catholic AND LDS view on material wealth is EXACTLY THE SAME.I will say it again, and maybe it will sink in. Catholics do not view material possessions as a sign of God's favor. From the talk I linked:The Lord has demonstrated throughout the generations that when the inhabitants of the earth remember him and are obedient to his direction, he will bless them not only with spiritual blessings, but with material abundance as well. No, you will never see this taught in the Catholic Church. Never has, never will. It defies the Cross. Jesus' perfect obedience led to the Cross, not to Nordstrom's. Edited June 23, 2015 by blueskye Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blueskye Posted June 23, 2015 Report Share Posted June 23, 2015 The talk you linked to is being woefully misinterpreted by you. It is a simple talk, with a clear, simple message. The message is either beyond your grasp or you are choosing to misunderstand it because the real message does not fit with your agenda. So much irony in your last paragraph.......So people are saying, but not saying what you believe it teaches. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blueskye Posted June 23, 2015 Report Share Posted June 23, 2015 Now I understand why you left the LDS Church... you didn't understand this one simple talk.I'll give you a newsflash because maybe you haven't been Catholic long enough to know this - Catholics and LDS teach the exact same thing about "Riches" and "Blessings".You have no idea why I left Mormonism. NO, we do not. See my post above. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blueskye Posted June 23, 2015 Report Share Posted June 23, 2015 Oh wow, you teach RCIA... and you didn't understand the talk you linked and how it relates to Catholic teaching and, in addition, completely missed the Catholic exegesis on Luke 18:9-14 (or maybe just failed to apply it here - no worrries, we all have our weaknesses).Hi, I linked to an LDS article, which does not reference Catholic exegesis on Luke 18. I know, it's fun to change the subject, but the LDS article I referenced focuses on LDS exegesis of the Book of Mormon. Which clearly teaches, wealth is the result of righteousness. Trumpetguy 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blueskye Posted June 23, 2015 Report Share Posted June 23, 2015 There is so much wrong with your post that I hardly know where to start. "LDS view material wealth as a blessing, which indicates righteousness". As others have pointed out, you haven't a clue about this. It is clear that you are ignorant when it comes to actual teachings and beliefs of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints and have a very negative viewpoint about it. And, yes, that can be true even if someone is an ex-member. Are you open to learning truth about the church or do you prefer to cling to something you latched on to from sources that are also ignorant? Are you here to learn or are you just another in a line of people who come here to tell members of the church how "wrong" we are and how right and superior you are? I am constantly baffled by people who leave the church but can't leave the church alone. Whether it's to rant and rave on ex-Mormon sites or come to forums like this one to proclaim their superiority in having joined a different church. I converted from Judaism. I have zero need or desire to run around to all the Jews telling them how "wrong" they are. Maybe if I were insecure in my new faith? Nope, not even then. I'm here for discussion. If you think I must agree with everything said, or hold back my views, then maybe you should just have a conversation with yourself. I don't really care whether or not you approve of my interest in Mormonism, or movies, books or cars, for that matter. Believe who you're more comfortable believing. Trumpetguy 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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