Sign in to follow this  
RebornMormon

Sympathy For The Opposers

Recommended Posts

Hello Everyone :D
 

I wanted to start this topic for the purpose of the apparent opposing of the prophet and the apostles. I have felt some what sympathetic towards those who "opposed" because I also have disagreements towards certain Apostles and Prophets on a personal level. Such as Bruce R. McConkie (surprise) is it incorrect to Oppose doctrines that the spirit doesn't manifest to us are true?
 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

There's a difference between struggling with opposing a doctrine or church leader, and shouting "opposed!" in general conference before millions of people.

 

The advice given in GC after the opposing votes was good advice - take your disagreements and un-spiritually-manifested doctrines to your local church leaders and counsel with them.  Or, maybe come here and ask about them - online saints may be able to provide you with a perspective or information you haven't encountered yet.

 

But yeah, publicly opposing church leadership because you haven't received a spiritual witness of something?  Or because you have disagreements on a personal level with someone?  A little over the top in my opinion.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

 

Hello Everyone :D

 

I wanted to start this topic for the purpose of the apparent opposing of the prophet and the apostles. I have felt some what sympathetic towards those who "opposed" because I also have disagreements towards certain Apostles and Prophets on a personal level. Such as Bruce R. McConkie (surprise) is it incorrect to Oppose doctrines that the spirit doesn't manifest to us are true?

 

 

Hmmmmm good question.

I would suppose it would depend on how you carried yourself in such a situation. IF by such you humble yourself and more earnestly seek the spirit I would guess it could end up being good for you, but on the other hand the chance for letting hate and anger simmer and stew in you till it boils over is also greater and that never leads to anything good.

I would point out to remember that part of the learning process is having to take steps on faith; we are shown a little of the path (but not all), but then we have to take a step out into the unknown, trusting that when we were told there will be a path there to catch us is true.

I would hazard a guess to say that most members of the church have not had everything revealed to them by the Holy spirit yet.

Generally for me my choice is to wait on it if I really don't know about it, and it's not from the scriptures or a commandment from the prophets, or a revelation of some kind. If it makes sense but I don't know for sure I'll keep it in mind but I leave the option that I've misunderstood some point or something about it open.

If your referring to how sometimes members bring up pseudo doctrine or things that are really out there in class once in a while then ya a reminder or asking people to stick to the basics probabbly wouldn't be out of hand.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

 

Hello Everyone :D

 

I wanted to start this topic for the purpose of the apparent opposing of the prophet and the apostles. I have felt some what sympathetic towards those who "opposed" because I also have disagreements towards certain Apostles and Prophets on a personal level. Such as Bruce R. McConkie (surprise) is it incorrect to Oppose doctrines that the spirit doesn't manifest to us are true?

 

 

 

Yes, of course it is. You don't oppose doctrines you don't understand. Rather, you seek to understand them. This is done by humbling yourself, accepting that you're not nearly as smart as you might think and that your opinions actually count for nothing, and then humbly searching for the truth in prayer.

 

By the way, Elder McConkie was a great man with a wonderful and self-deprecating sense of humor, which you will discover if you care to take the time to listen carefully to him and really search what he had to say.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I have read (BRM) all of Mormon Doctrine, 1st and 2nd edition. The Messiah series, Doctrinal New Testament Commentary, A new Witness to the Articles of Faith and most every recorded talk he ever gave. Truly a spiritual giant among men.....

 

I have never had a disagreement with any Apostle or Prophet and if I found myself in a position where I did....I would likely fast and pray and seek the Spirit in order to soften my heart so I could be more teachable.

Edited by bytor2112

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I have read (BRM) all of Mormon Doctrine, 1st and 2nd edition. The Messiah series, Doctrinal New Testament Commentary, A new Witness to the Articles of Faith and most every recorded talk he ever gave. Truly a spiritual giant among men.....

 

I have never had a disagreement with any Apostle or Prophet and if I found myself in a position where I did....I would likely fast and pray and seek the Spirit in order to soften my heart so I could be more teachable.

I think many agree with you.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

As an outsider who pays attention to what is happening in Christian churches, this is a matter that can be very individual, but also church-wide.  Today your church, and so many denominations, are struggling over how to reconcile scriptural prohibitions against LBGT activities and the new dogma that these orientations are no less biological than race.  Traditionalists are labeled bigots and haters by the larger community.  Many of those LBGT people, and their straight allies, are intelligent, interesting, generally kind, and in so many ways--attractive.  Contrast them with the polyester-suit wearing, graying, Bible-waving, red-faced preachers declaring, "I tell you, it's an abom-nation!" and it's not hard to see why many would rather associate with society.

 

Even in my conservative church, which prides itself on being Spirit-led, we have many voices telling us to be positive, emphasize love and grace, not to be judgmental, and to "build up, not tear down."  The institution is still officially traditional, but there are stray voices, especially amongst our younger leaders, that seem to want to steer us in another direction.

 

We'd better get our eyes off the society, and off the current wisdom.  What does God say?  What does God want?  The answer may be one I proffered in another thread--will we strive to decide for ourselves what is good and what is evil?  Will we try to be like God?  Or, will we walk with him?  Will we obey him, even when many say that to do so will mean walking a lonely, despised road.  Oh well...it's narrow, but at least it's straight!

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

If you'll look a little more closely, you'll see that it was closed, not deleted.

 

I can't even find the thread. When I try to bring up the thread through the Notifications tab (from posters liking the post) I get the message "You do not have permission to view this topic".

 

M. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

You know who I really feel sympathy for? Everyone else who was there just trying to enjoy conference. Maybe it was their first time there and these people tried to ruin it for everyone with their selfishness. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

You know who I really feel sympathy for? Everyone else who was there just trying to enjoy conference. Maybe it was their first time there and these people tried to ruin it for everyone with their selfishness. 

 

That's ridiculous! How on earth would someone shouting "No" ruin conference. Your life has to be pretty dull for that to be a serious concern.

 

M.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

To be in the middle of some kind of sacred assembly, and hear shouts of opposition definitely disrupts one's sense of community, communion with the Spirit, and overall spiritual safety at being gathered with so many of like precious faith.  Why is it hard to see why that might detract from the experience, Maureen?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Guest

That's ridiculous! How on earth would someone shouting "No" ruin conference. Your life has to be pretty dull for that to be a serious concern.

 

M.

That's what I said to my advisor too when our school got invited to an interscholastic open forum and I made a face at the other school's speaker behind her back. I told her pretty much the same thing - to get a life because that couldn't have been that serious! Well, they told my advisor I can't attend the next round stating that several participants complained that it was a distraction and goes against the spirit of the open forum, so I guess it was pretty serious.

See... we can say all day long - oh you're being ridiculous to feel that way. Fact of the matter is, they feel that way. There's a reason why the Church tries to maintain a standard of reverence in these meetings and that "the appropriate sign" is raising of hands instead of something else.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Guest

To be in the middle of some kind of sacred assembly, and hear shouts of opposition definitely disrupts one's sense of community, communion with the Spirit, and overall spiritual safety at being gathered with so many of like precious faith.  Why is it hard to see why that might detract from the experience, Maureen?

True this, PC.

Just as an observation though... especially from people's social media meme's and such... even the best of people tend to be I-ME-MINErs. They really don't think about "community" as particularly as important as SELF. So, the objective is - I want to be seen - which has to be accomplished regardless of the effect on the community.

I got this on my facebook today from a very good friend of mine who is a really nice person:

"FAREWELL TO: ANYBODY IN MY LIFE who doesn't see the best in me.

I will not carry you around."

I understand the sentiment but at the same time I was kinda sad. This brings home to me the "self" focus that we all have so much so that we refuse to think about the welfare of those who may not like us.

In all of these posts, it is very clear that we don't have a problem with people opposing instead of sustaining. We are simply disturbed by the manner with which they expressed opposition.

Sorry for the threadjack.

Edited by anatess

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

..we don't have a problem with people opposing instead of sustaining.

 

This isn't entirely true... I don't begrudge anyone the right to oppose. Let them worship who, where, what they may, etc.  But to say I have no problem with it? Not really accurate. I would hope that all who have a testimony of right and truth have a problem with those who are vehemently (or even softly and civilly) kicking against the proverbial pricks.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I don't necessarily feel sympathy for someone who opposes. I do, however, feel sympathy for those who have been unjustly treated, who as a result of their treatment vote in opposition. I personally know people who have been unjustly treated by their local/area leaders, but because we are insulated from the general authorities who refer us back to our local authorities, their can be no proper redress. These are exceptions, however, and not the rule. But they DO exist. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

To be in the middle of some kind of sacred assembly, and hear shouts of opposition definitely disrupts one's sense of community, communion with the Spirit, and overall spiritual safety at being gathered with so many of like precious faith.  Why is it hard to see why that might detract from the experience, Maureen?

 

PC, have you heard what people are actually complaining about? Check out this youtube video yourself and let me know what you think about this alleged disruption.

 

 

M. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Guest

Maureen, you reject our religion and our church as a whole. . . so why do you care so much that we feel the way we do about this?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Maureen, you reject our religion and our church as a whole. . . so why do you care so much that we feel the way we do about this?

 

 

It could be because those who reject thusly enjoy any opportunity to speak negatively about the church.    As though they have accomplished something by doing so. 

 

Maureen is clearly here only to bash the church.  One has to wonder why this is allowed to go on year after year.  And why one feels the need to do so year after year instead of moving on with life, 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I listened to the clip.  In many denominations verbalized nays are normal.  So, it may be worth considering that some would wonder what all the fuss is about.  On the other hand, if opposition is rare, and a silent show of hand is the norm, regardless, then the vocal opposition would, at minimum, be the equivalent of a cell phone sounding during a sermon/homily/talk.  Uncouth at best, obnoxious at worst.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

This fuss over two barely audible vocal notifications (I can't even call them shouts) that last about one second each is the equivalent of making a "mountain out of a mole hill".

 

M.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

It could be because those who reject thusly enjoy any opportunity to speak negatively about the church.    As though they have accomplished something by doing so. 

 

Maureen is clearly here only to bash the church.  One has to wonder why this is allowed to go on year after year.  And why one feels the need to do so year after year instead of moving on with life, 

 

If these threads were never created and silly comments were never made, I wouldn't feel the need to give my 2 cents.

 

And Leah, there's usually at least one comment from you about my participation on these forums as bashing your church without any evidence. Find me one post, where I have bashed your church.

 

M.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now
Sign in to follow this