One thing that has been really been bothering me...

[pandabro_]

Hello, I'm Ryan, I'm 15, and I'm getting baptized today and I've committed myself to following the rules and laws of our Heavenly Father, but one thing that missionaries or every one in the church has failed to convince me of is...

The prohibition of tea and coffee.

I know this has been discussed a lot, and none of them really make sense to me.

They say "you shouldn't do it cause our Heavenly Father commanded it, and he will bless us after even if we do not know why we must follow it." Now, this does not make sense at all. The Word of Wisdom has commanded everything else, and they make sense to me.

No Alcohol, because it destroys families, it is extremely addictive, temporarily ruins one's mental state, and also causes diseases

No Tabacco, because it is addictive, and causes dieseases such as cancer.

No Illegal or Addictive Substances, because...well they're addictive and illegal, and by obtaining illegal item it is considered dishonest, which falls under the 10 commandments.

No Coffee or Tea, because...they taste good?

Keep in mind that when I discussed with the missionaries and we were reviewing the Word of Wisdom, I told them we shouldn't have caffeine, and they said caffeine was 100% okay, it's just tea and coffee that should be avoided

People who have been saying "it is because caffeine is a psychoactive drug in some form." You could not be more wrong. Also, keep in mind that decaf is also prohibited, because it is "still a derivative of tea and coffee."

I will still continue to follow the laws and rules that have been presented to me, even though I utterly disagree with this one. So my question is...

Why do we abstain from coffee and tea?

[Guest]

We abstain from tea and coffee because God has commanded it.

 

We may not understand or agree that it is bad for us, but God has deemed that it is.  There is another thread here that goes into some debate on the scientific community's view on coffee/tea.  Some say it is good, some say it is bad.  My mother (a Catholic) used to drink it but she prohibited her children (including me) from drinking it because as she says - "it is bad for you".  When I was in the varsity team in the Philippines (I was Catholic then), we were not allowed coffee/tea/soda/alcohol during training season - the coaches all agree it somehow lowers our training preparedness.  My mother can't stop drinking coffee - she's one of those people who says, "Don't bother me until I've had my first cup of coffee...".  The WOW was the easiest thing for me as I converted from Catholicism to LDS at age 30 because I wasn't into that stuff already - I was thinking, if my mom said it is bad and my coaches said it is bad, what is to be gained by drinking it when there's coconut juice (my favorite) and all other kinds of stuff I'd rather drink?  So I just never touched them even outside of training season when I was Catholic.  But scientists will also say, there's nothing at all about coffee that causes dependency, nervousness, etc., and that coffee can cure migraines and even prevents cancer.

 

Anyway, none of that matters much.  We don't really know why men can't marry other men, why you need the Aaronic priesthood to pass sacrament, or Milchezedek priesthood to be a bishop, or why only men can be priests.  We don't really know why Jesus chose Joseph Smith or why we have to do work in the temple.

 

All that goes with FAITH.  We simply trust that God knows what he is doing.  If you can't exercise faith on something as simple as "don't drink coffee or tea" which, from my experience in varsity was not hard at all to abstain from especially since I really wanted to be in that team... how can you expect to exercise faith on the big things - like, "whether by mine own voice or by the voice of my servants, it is the same" as we follow the counsel of the prophets in things like - tithing, food storage, full time missions, eternal marriage, etc. etc. etc.?

Edited April 11, 2015 by anatess

[prisonchaplain]

One time a well-known rabbi in our area was asked why Torah-observant Jews don't eat shrimp.  The reporter may have expected a reference to cholesterol, or some other health-related justification.  Instead, he said, "Because God said 'No.'"  If you believe Joseph Smith was a prophet, and he said that God told him LDS were to abstain from coffee and tea, then abstain you must.

[David13]

I'm new to that also, and a little confused, tho' it is getting clearer.

I also understand that iced coffee or tea are ok.

Some would like to add soda to that.  But that has never officially been added.

Did Brigham Young or Joseph Smith ever give any further clarification about whether or not that is that we "should" avoid coffee and tea, or "must" avoid coffee and tea?

I will add that from my point of view, at my old age, I say that if you want to avoid gross problems in your life and the lives around you, you will, must absolutely avoid alcohol abuse or use to excess or addition, any illegal drug use, and be extremely careful with prescription drugs, and avoid tobacco addiction or regular use.

dc

[james12]

To start I would ask why do you say caffeine is not a psychoactive drug?

 

"Caffeine is the most widely consumed psychoactive substance on earth..." ("Coffee: The Demon Drink?", New Scientist, Sep 24, 2005)

 

 

Caffeine is a psychoactive drug, meaning that it is able to affect chemical reactions in the brain. Adenosine molecules slow activity in the central nervous system and cause the individual to feel tired.Caffeine makes people feel awake. After being ingested, its molecules bind to adenosine receptor cells and take adenosine’s place, inhibiting the adenosine from binding and causing the person to feel tired. Caffeine also increases dopamine levels, which cause the person to feel happier.

 

Caffeine is found in more than 60 different plants and, although it has milder affects, it alters the same parts of the brain as drugs such as cocaine, heroin and amphetamines. (http://blog.owu.edu/transcript/2012/11/09/caffeine-a-psychoactive-drug-with-ups-and-downs-for-body-and-brain/)

 

 

[Str8Shooter]

Sometimes we are asked to do things just to see if we will do them.

In Exodus, God commanded that the children of Israel take only a certain amount of manna to "...prove them, whether they will walk in my law, or no." Why couldn't they collect all of it? To me that would make the most sense, but I don't know what God knows. There is a reason, and sometimes it's just to "prove" our faith.

Abraham had to prove himself in a much greater and certainly more difficult way when he was asked to sacrifice his son. Luckily he didn't have to.

It says in the book of Abraham that the earth was created so that we could have a place to see if we would follow what we are commanded to do.

I don't know why coffee and tea are against the Word of Wisdom. I know there were problems in the early days of the Church (and sometimes later days) with irresponsible use of alcohol and tobacco. Maybe the ban on coffee and tea was part of a "you guys lost all your privileges" kind of a thing. I don't know. What I do know is that blessings come from following the Word of Wisdom.

[askandanswer]

More important, and more helpful than knowing the reason why we should not have tea or coffee- and perhaps there isn't even a good medical reason - is having a spiritual conviction that all aspects of the Section 89 of the Doctrine and Covenants are the word and will of the Lord and that all aspects of it should be followed. The way to get this spiritual conviction is by obediently living the principle and then humbly, sincerely, and faithfully asking God through prayer if it is true. Perhaps this is also the same way that you came to know that the church is true and now desire to be baptised; the same approach will work when it comes to learning whether the Word of Wisdom is true or not. Once you get that spiritual conviction and know for yourself that it is true, the reasons no longer matter. I don't think the reasons for the prohibition on tea and coffee is is a question that can be satisfactorily answered by reference to medical and physiological knowledge.

 

As for myself, I bear witness, in the name of Jesus Christ, that the Word of Wisdom is a true principle and blessing from God, given for the benefit of His children, and that we will be blessed according to the extent that we follow it, and that blessings will be withheld to the extent that we don't follow it. I also testify that following the Word of Wisdom in its fullness will bring us greater health, happiness, and closeness to God than not following it. It is in yours and my best eternal interest to follow all of God's counsel and guidance, including the Word of Wisdom, because they are given to us by a loving Father in Heaven who knows what is best for us, and who does all things for our benefit.  

Edited April 11, 2015 by askandanswer

[Crypto]

If you really want I could look up some research on caffeine, coffee and tea, and potentially bad effects from taking them if you want. I could also look up the potentially good effects too

 

PrisonChaplin summed it up pretty well though.

[Leah]

I'm new to that also, and a little confused, tho' it is getting clearer.

I also understand that iced coffee or tea are ok.

Some would like to add soda to that.  But that has never officially been added.

Did Brigham Young or Joseph Smith ever give any further clarification about whether or not that is that we "should" avoid coffee and tea, or "must" avoid coffee and tea?

I will add that from my point of view, at my old age, I say that if you want to avoid gross problems in your life and the lives around you, you will, must absolutely avoid alcohol abuse or use to excess or addition, any illegal drug use, and be extremely careful with prescription drugs, and avoid tobacco addiction or regular use.

dc

Iced coffee and tea are NOT "okay".

 

If any member has that understanding, they need to talk to their bishop for clarification.  Especially if they ever intend to get a temple recommend.

[sxfritz]

I believe coffee and tea to be both addictive and destructive. They don't ruin families like alcohol, but hey ruin your stomach and other organs over time. As with most principles of the gospel, it is best learned by observance. I was a coffee drinker before joining the church. I feel my life is much better without it. 

[David13]

Ok

I see a post from 2011 by Vort that says iced coffee and tea are not ok.

dc

[lagarthaaz]

Hello, I'm Ryan, I'm 15, and I'm getting baptized today and I've committed myself to following the rules and laws of our Heavenly Father, but one thing that missionaries or every one in the church has failed to convince me of is...

The prohibition of tea and coffee.

I know this has been discussed a lot, and none of them really make sense to me.

They say "you shouldn't do it cause our Heavenly Father commanded it, and he will bless us after even if we do not know why we must follow it." Now, this does not make sense at all. The Word of Wisdom has commanded everything else, and they make sense to me.

No Alcohol, because it destroys families, it is extremely addictive, temporarily ruins one's mental state, and also causes diseases

No Tabacco, because it is addictive, and causes dieseases such as cancer.

No Illegal or Addictive Substances, because...well they're addictive and illegal, and by obtaining illegal item it is considered dishonest, which falls under the 10 commandments.

No Coffee or Tea, because...they taste good?

Keep in mind that when I discussed with the missionaries and we were reviewing the Word of Wisdom, I told them we shouldn't have caffeine, and they said caffeine was 100% okay, it's just tea and coffee that should be avoided

People who have been saying "it is because caffeine is a psychoactive drug in some form." You could not be more wrong. Also, keep in mind that decaf is also prohibited, because it is "still a derivative of tea and coffee."

I will still continue to follow the laws and rules that have been presented to me, even though I utterly disagree with this one. So my question is...

Why do we abstain from coffee and tea?

 

Hi Ryan, first of all, I am a convert who was baptized at the age of 16, close to your age (I'm much older now) - congratulations and I hope your baptism day is wonderful  :) 

 

I  hear you about the tea and coffee thing - it was hard for me to understand too. But, we are not the experts on what we need to do in order to live righteously in these latter-days - God is.  What is important is that to commit to living the gospel fully, we have been asked by our Heavenly Father (though his prophets) to do certain things. One of those things is to abstain from tea and coffee.

 

I wouldn't say that coffee, tea or caffeine are not harmful substances - they most definitely can be, even if in moderation they probably don't hurt anyone too much. If you do a google search on 'coffee/tea/caffeine addiction', you will find that dependency on these substances has become a worldwide epidemic.  Caffeine is most definitely a harmful psychoactive substance - do a search on that one too if you are curious. 

 

All of that is just information though - at the end of the day we keep commandments because they come from God, not because there is research to back them up :)

[Backroads]

I know plenty of people who consume minor to moderate amounts of alcohol, are just fine, and don't destroy their lives or families. On that view, we can't even say alcohol automatically ruins lives. Different drinks have been around for ages. Sure, there's always been caution against excess and modern medical science has shown dangers of over consumption, but my point is we can't always search for satisfactory logic to explain commandments. We just obey them first and foremost.

[prisonchaplain]

Personal observation about coffee, in particular:  On the advise of a doctor I went without coffee for a year.  He thought it might be causing me digestion problems.  After the year, we determined that coffee was not the issue, and I resumed my joyful consumption.  All that to say that the greatest benefit for LDS abstaining from coffee and tea is probably spiritual, not medical or physical. 

[bytebear]

My view is that as others have said,it is a comandment of God, and a sign that we are committed to living under His covenant.

 

But part of this is that coffee and tea (although less so in the US), are daily addictive habits that are hard to give up, and therefore represent a real sacrifice.  We don't ask people to give up ice cream, or cherry pie, or strawberries, because those aren't part of our cultures daily routine.  To a non-coffee drinker, giving up coffee is not a big deal, but most people find it a real sacrifice.  

 

And lastly the addictive nature is something God wants us to avoid.  We shouldn't "need" a morning stimulant to get us moving. And we will be better off in situations where we cannot have it, to be able to not worry.  Same with monthy fasting.  We adapt in regular life to where we can survive without the need of food for a day.

[Maureen]

I believe coffee and tea to be both addictive and destructive. They don't ruin families like alcohol, but hey ruin your stomach and other organs over time. As with most principles of the gospel, it is best learned by observance. I was a coffee drinker before joining the church. I feel my life is much better without it. 

 

The professional health community disagrees with you.

 

M.

[Pa Pa]

Hello, I'm Ryan, I'm 15, and I'm getting baptized today and I've committed myself to following the rules and laws of our Heavenly Father, but one thing that missionaries or every one in the church has failed to convince me of is...

The prohibition of tea and coffee.

I know this has been discussed a lot, and none of them really make sense to me.

They say "you shouldn't do it cause our Heavenly Father commanded it, and he will bless us after even if we do not know why we must follow it." Now, this does not make sense at all. The Word of Wisdom has commanded everything else, and they make sense to me.

No Alcohol, because it destroys families, it is extremely addictive, temporarily ruins one's mental state, and also causes diseases

No Tabacco, because it is addictive, and causes dieseases such as cancer.

No Illegal or Addictive Substances, because...well they're addictive and illegal, and by obtaining illegal item it is considered dishonest, which falls under the 10 commandments.

No Coffee or Tea, because...they taste good?

Keep in mind that when I discussed with the missionaries and we were reviewing the Word of Wisdom, I told them we shouldn't have caffeine, and they said caffeine was 100% okay, it's just tea and coffee that should be avoided

People who have been saying "it is because caffeine is a psychoactive drug in some form." You could not be more wrong. Also, keep in mind that decaf is also prohibited, because it is "still a derivative of tea and coffee."

I will still continue to follow the laws and rules that have been presented to me, even though I utterly disagree with this one. So my question is...

Why do we abstain from coffee and tea?

There is a scripture where Adam is asked, "Why do you offer sacrifice"? He answers, "I know not save The Lord Commands me". This is why we do things we may not understands, because The Lord commands us. In time spiritually maturer will come and the maturer of age will bring understanding will come. We do not live in the dark forever, though it seems at times we do. I would not drink milk if commanded not to. You are young...wisdom will come, I promise. God loves you enough to make it so...this is my faith that he will, as he has in my own life so often.

[mirkwood]

Your syntax is quite good for a 15 year old.  I'm impressed.

[Crypto]

The professional health community disagrees with you.

 

M.

The professional health community is not in complete agreement.

I recently met with my general practitioner, non-lds (non lds area), and mentioned that my blood pressure might be a bit high that day because I took some caffeine supplementation; I was then told about why the doctor didn't drink coffee or other like beverages because of health reasons. From the conversation I think he inferred that that is where I got the caffeine from.

[Maureen]

The professional health community is not in complete agreement.

I recently met with my general practitioner, non-lds (non lds area), and mentioned that my blood pressure might be a bit high that day because I took some caffeine supplementation; I was then told about why the doctor didn't drink coffee or other like beverages because of health reasons. From the conversation I think he inferred that that is where I got the caffeine from.

 

I would think you would have to evaluate the effects of caffeine individually. Just because it may cause you high blood pressure doesn't mean it causes everyone high blood pressure.

 

M.

[Crypto]

Caffeine isn't all that bad as far as drugs go, however just like anything else it can have it's good sides and bad sides.
 

I would think you would have to evaluate the effects of caffeine individually. Just because it may cause you high blood pressure doesn't mean it causes everyone high blood pressure.

 

M.

The effects of many[read as :all] drugs will vary depending on personal biology. This is not unique to caffeine. In caffeine's case it will increase blood pressure depending on how much tolerance someone has built up to using it.

 

Tolerance doesn't mean that it doesn't have an effect, just that a larger dose is needed to continue exerting the same level of effect. If you would like we can discuss the specific changes that develop from developing such a tolerance. (Or the practical side of things such as requiring the use of caffeine to maintain a baseline state after tolerance has developed)

Which is all nice and dandy, except that it is irrelevant to the point I was making.

You said:

 

The professional health community disagrees with you.

 

M.

A doctor (told me)said:

 

 I was then told about why the doctor didn't drink coffee or other like beverages because of health reasons. 

Conclusion: Not all doctors think caffeine, tea, coffee, energy drinks, soda etc... use is harmless to your health.
=====================================================================================

If you would like to review some of the well know bad side effects, that could contribute to a doctor not recommending use see here: http://www.webmd.com/vitamins-supplements/ingredientmono-980-coffee.aspx?activeingredientid=980&activeingredientname=coffee

You can also click on the "uses" section to see some of the useful functions.

[Litzy]

I used to drink coffee back when. Never was a big drinker, and personally felt no different going off of it. I know Maureen and I went around the block with medical opinion of coffee, but generally speaking I do see its share of medical benefits. Personally I feel the negatives of coffee are going to exist with individual circumstances and health.

[prisonchaplain]

Also a personal opinion...from one who has no dog in the fight...is it not risky to rely too heavily on the medical arguments?  If the message is that coffee is bad because caffeine is bad, or because of some alleged medical risk, then arguments arise.  How come we can have this item, that has caffeine?  What about this new study that says coffee does not cause pancreatic cancer?  Was Joseph Smith wrong?  Was the church wrong?  It's all so unnecessary.  Most people realize that the risks of coffee and tea to health are possible, but not sure--and that whatever the risks, they do not rise to the level of alarming.  So, if Joseph Smith, and the other prophets and apostles did not say that the reason for the WoW is primarily for physical health, or to avoid addiction, why lay much stress on those arguments?  Why tell young people that such are the main reasons, when that is not what was spoken?

 

Ironically, I'm increasingly seeing that my line of reasoning may apply to some of the social issues of our day, as well.  We want our communities to be godly, so we lobby for scriptural moral standards.  If we try to hard to apply sociological or psychological reasoning to these standards, we may lose some of our own young people, when they found those arguments unsound, or even questionable.

[Litzy]

I think prisonchaplain wins the thread. Well-said!

[Anddenex]

Hello Ryan,

 

As with others, congrats, may the Lord bless you to continue to nourish your testimony and to establish it upon "the rock" (Helaman 5: 12).

 

When I was 16 after basketball practice across the street from the high school was a subway where we would stop by and grab a swig of soda.  My friends would grab a swig of the raspberry [herbal] tea or so I thought.  They loved it.  I checked the specifications to see if it was iced tea.  When I didn't read "ice tea" I thought, "Awesome! I can have some of this -- herbal tea." Oh, I have never tasted something better and more refreshing.  I began to drink that instead of Mountain Dew.  Over a period of a few months I loved the 32 ounces of refills after basketball practice.  Then my big brother ruined corrected my ways.  

 

He recognized what I was drinking and said, "Do you know what you are drinking is ice tea?" I responded, "No it isn't, otherwise it would have been posted as such."  He then walked me over (mind you I had a 32 ounce filled and was ready for my refill) and then pointed out the small letters [dang those small letters -- why is it that the small letters in any document always get you  ] that said "ice tea."  To this day, every time I come across that raspberry ice tea my mouth waters.  That day, so long ago, my life of sin  , was over.  

 

It really wasn't a matter of what I liked or enjoyed -- it was simply a matter of obedience (Abraham 3: 25).  The word of wisdom is a matter of faith, love, and obedience to our Father in heaven.  If the Lord said "Mountain Dew" is no longer kosher to drink -- to my chagrin -- I would stop cold turkey.  If I have received a witness from the Holy Ghost the gospel of Jesus Christ has a been restored -- then the simple words through God's chosen prophets is enough for me -- even though I still crave the taste of that raspberry ice tea my brother so lovely ruined for me.