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How do you treat homosexuals?

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Guest teamfamilywall

Growing up, people often asked me if I was homosexual. Sometimes people were quite cruel because I was and am rather "feminine." In High School, I had very low self-esteem and felt worthless. Now that I'm older, I have learned to accept myself for who I am and have long since forgiven those who bullied me. But I still see others mistreat those who are different from what is "normal."

 

Here is a discussion my wife and I had about the subject.

 

https://youtu.be/OLowASQRU0E

 

What are your thoughts on the subject?

 

If this is too controversial (which I don't think it is), I respect your decision to take it down. However, I think honest and open dialogue is needed about the topic. 

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I was going to say, "I try to treat everyone the same."  But that isn't true.  Actually, I make an extra effort to be kind to people that may have been treated badly...like LGBT people.  For the most part this is fine, but recently I was kind to a man who appeared to be mentally unbalanced.  He was shouting, "Do you hear me?"  I smiled as kindly as I could and said, "Yes, I hear you."  He responded with a barage of F-bombs and a comment about a "10 inch_ part of his anatomy.  But other than that, being kind to everyone has always been good policy.   When I was a young adult, I had several friends that I knew to be gay.  And I count Josh Weed and his wife, Lolly, (joshweed.com) among my closest friends (be jealous, be very jealous, they are awesome!)

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"How do you treat homosexuals"?  Seems like a weird question to me, in league with "how do you treat brunettes?" or "how do you treat tall people?".  People are people.  I admire LP for trying to go the extra mile with historically downtrodden individuals or groups; but frankly--I, personally, just don't have that much energy.

 

As to the whole gay rights movement, I figure--If you think a gay (or brunette, or tall) person is doing wrong, and your relationship is such that you feel comfortable telling 'em that--okay, tell 'em; otherwise, mind your own business.  If you think they're trying to get you to aid and abet their wrongdoing--by all means feel free to speak up and tell 'em no, same as with anyone else.  If you think they're trying to implement a political policy that will have negative long-term social consequences--again, speak up, same as anyone else.

Edited by Just_A_Guy

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People getting mistreated for being different is definitely not limited to homosexuals. It applies to many things different.

I grew up in the Philippines. Being gay in my neck of the woods in the Philippines does not automatically put sex in people's minds until the gay person start chasing boys. Then they get their heads flushed down toilets. But then the guy who is not Catholic who starts talking non-Catholic stuff also get their heads flushed down toilets... or even the one kid who speaks Tagalog instead of Visaya can also get his head flushed down toilets...

One of my close circle of friends in elementary school is gay (he's a woman now living in London). But, we knew he was gay since we were in first grade because he likes to play with what the girls are playing with and walks/talks/gestures like the girls. He basically just did what all the girls did. So we played together. But then the gay kids in school have their niches - for some reason, they all get drafted into men's volleyball and they get put in charge of things that has to do with making floats or stage production, etc.

We have Miss Gay beauty pageant in town which is held infront of the Catholic Church that is right next to my Catholic School judged by a Catholic priest... it's the same format as the women beauty pageant - they also wear evening gowns and swimsuit... and the only way you know they're not women is because they're in a Miss Gay beauty pageant.

But then the gay adults also have their niches - everybody who is somebody will not be caught dead having a non-gay person cut their hair or design their clothes (most people go to seamstresses instead of buying off the rack - labor is cheap, you see) or decorate their spaces.

So yeah, the complaint in my day was the gay people who are not skilled in the specific niches get a don't-ask-don't-tell policy in their workplaces because the cultural reaction to a flamboyantly gay person who is not a hairdresser/designer/decorator/etc is that of "shouldn't he be cutting hair instead of doing my taxes?".

As far as romantic relationships go... first of all, the culture in my neck of the woods when I was growing up is - unless you plan to marry the person, dating is just a way for you to commit the sin against the law of chastity - so, it doesn't matter if you're a hetero or homo, if you have a boy/girlfriend in high school, you're a candidate for getting your head flushed down the toilet.

So, college is when you start seeing couples... and if you're gay, you are encouraged to go to Catholic Seminary college (preparation for priesthood ordination which comes with a vow of celibacy). Otherwise, you go find a suitable hetero relationship or remain single. It's not uncommon to find out while the gay guy is cutting your hair wearing sparkly blouse and skirt that he goes home to his wife and kids.

It's not until I got to the US where being gay is so closely tied to sex that they're basically one and the same. It's like the unpardonable assumption to think that a gay person can have loving relationships with the opposite gender and even marry them. I mean, I've heard gay people say to self-proclaimed gay people who are married to the opposite sex that you're "not really gay". It's like who they have sex with defines who they are. I'm not used to that thinking - I mean, sex is just not talked about in public when I was growing up. That's always just whispered about, you know. I mean, it's a Catholic town - where buying a condom is like buying a Penthouse magazine - you have to go find those ewww places where they have back rooms that house the nasty goods. My mom is even worse - she doesn't call it chicken breast, it's chicken chest. There was no birds and bees talk... when I started my period, she handed me a pack of Stayfree and asked me to read the instructions.

In the Philippines, it's not such a big deal that gay people marry the opposite gender because marriage there is not just sex. More people marry for security than physical attraction where I come from.

I have a gay friend who married a girl and had 3 children. They were happily married for 17 years and then they migrated to the US back in 2010 and 3 months later the husband left the wife with the 3 kids and went off to live with another guy.

I have a gay classmate in college who migrated to the US a few months after I got married and he became my husband's best friend. He's one of those gay people who, unless he tells you, you'll never guess is gay. He acts/talks/walks/does everything male. He is now living with another guy who is, hands down, the girl in that relationship. We had some interesting discussions on Prop 8 and such but it doesn't change our friendship. They even attended my kids' baptisms - which is a double jump for him... not only does he have to deal with me not raising my kids Catholic, he has to deal with me being Mormon on top of it. Both he and his boyfriend attended and I introduced them as a couple but they didn't do what they normally do - like hold hands and such.

I've been in the US over 20 years and my brother tells me that my hometown has drastically changed in the past few years. The Xmen (what my brother calls them - it's just a joke... you know ex-men) are now bucking the traditions and flaunting their boyfriends (usually foreigners) around town. It got so bad that one of the major salons in the city fired all their gay hairdressers because they would not talk about anything else but their boyfriends so the big-money clientele quit going there. I guess the pendulum is starting to swing the other way and it will take time for it to settle in the middle.

Anyway, I haven't looked at your youtube video yet as I don't get youtube on my work puter and I'm too lazy to go fire up my personal puter... I'll check it out when I get off my bum.

Edited by anatess

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I'm glad to hear that there is so much love, acceptance, and compassion out there. 10-years ago when I was in school, the culture was very different. There was still a HUGE stigma against the LGBT community. I have seen a cultural change over the past 10 or so years. We have become far more inclusive and respectful... sometimes :) However, that also has its negative side as some of you stated. It has also led to a general acceptance, sometimes even legally, of practices we may not believe in, which are now pushing up against the rights of the Church and its members. There seems to be such a fine line to walk these days.

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With apathy, in that nothing about them being gay has anything to do with me.  Who they sleep with isn't any concern of mine.

 

(I have been called a homophobe for this.)

Edited by unixknight

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The same as I treat short people.

 

I'm so glad to hear this.  :)  But of course it doesn't say how you treat those of us who are vertically challenged. :P

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There seems to be such a fine line to walk these days.

 

Seems to me it's the same fine line that it's always been, particularly for the righteous. Balancing loving the person but not accepting, embracing, or giving tacit approval to the sin has always been the fine line. The only difference now is that society, by and large, has turned to support of what was once considered fairly universally abominable. Therefore, even using the word "abominable" is as likely as not to get me into trouble.

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The same as I treat short people.

 

Me too, with constant belittlement (seewhatididthere) and harrassment.

 

"It's a bit cloudy up here, is it foggy down there?"

"I think I'd like to hire your for some temp work. Maybe just an OddJob. I've always wanted a Tattoo, but nothing permanent."

"I must apologize for not trimming my nose hairs this morning. It must be terribly distracting for you."

One key difference is that I try to trip people from both groups when they walk by, but short people just climb over my foot. Their determination is inspiring instead of amusing.

 

How do I treat short people? with a Procrustean bed!

 

 

People are strange when you're a stranger. If there's something about you that falls outside the norm, there will be some natural "otherness" about the way you're treated. If that something is unobservable or unknown, then you will find no strangeness in the way you're treated. If it's something unobservable that you make known, be sure to be comfortable enough about that something that you don't feel alienated as the outlier.

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I know two gay people, both live in other states.  One has come out and talks of unsure foundation and fighting with self-hatred and whatnot.  I know little about the other's story, other than his mom seems to feel spin control is needed.  I'm on record with both of them, if they ever come to my state, I'll give 'em a hug.

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I'm hardly a macho guy and always got accused of being gay all throughout school. Even though I'm a married man now, my sister gets questions "Is your brother gay?" To top it off, one of my roommates in college was gay. So OP, I'm with you 100%. I always messed with people by saying things like "Why, jealous your girlfriend might be into me?"

 

I treat homosexuals like I treat heterosexuals. IE-If you sexuality defines you, you are a boring person. I don't expect you to trumpet your sexuality anymore than I trumpet mine. 

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Gay people are such a super minority that I don't have to give it much thought. There is a guy who bags groceries at my store. He asks, "Is plastic okay", I say, "Yes". He says, "Have a nice day", I say, "Thank you". And then I don't think about how I treat homosexuals until the next week, if he bags my groceries.

 

There are two women who recently moved across the street from me. They both look somewhat masculine. We wave occasionally but have yet to discuss dandelions, which is as much as I have discussed with the single woman next door to them.

Edited by pkstpaul

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Finally got to watch the video... cute couple!

So... interesting thing about what was said in the video... "Be who you are".

See. that's a tricky thing to say to somebody, especially a teenager. Because, most of them think that who they are is what their bodies tell them or what the magazine tells them or what Justine Beiber or VSauce tell them...

So really... WHO ARE YOU? It's very easy to slap a label and put yourself in a box. I'm gay. I'm fat. I'm a cheerleader. I'm a judo black belt.... So much so that kids forget that who they are is a child of God and their purpose on this planet is to CHANGE so as to be like Christ. Rather, kids go hang metal chains onto their eyebrows to assert who they are, or go get inked to assert who they are, or go wear clothes the size of lunch napkins to the mall to assert who they are or go show their boobs and get drugged up on spring break to assert who they are...

In their pre-mortal existence, they chose to follow Christ and go through this change and that's why they're walking planet earth. So, what I tell my kids... "Yes, be who you are. But make sure you know exactly what that means. Because who we are are Spirits having Mortal journeys to CHANGE to be like Christ"...

Also, about trying to fit in, not belonging anywhere... going with the wrong crowd to find acceptance... that's not a rare occurrence. That's the epitome of teen angst. It's a growth process that most of us go through, books have been written about, and movies made millions out of. I was a popular kid in school - kids follow me - yet I still had to go through this phase.

Edited by anatess

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I agree with anatess but might even take it further. Be who you are is no value whatsoever. Be who you are meant to be -- now there's a value.

 

There is also a big difference between humbly facing weaknesses with strength and courage, and the celebration of those weaknesses -- even if said weaknesses are thorns in the side that will never be removed in this life (a robustly debatable concept when it comes to preferences, tastes and inclinations).

 

Note: this response is in regards to anatess's post, and not necessarily directly related to the OP question or the video (which I have not watched). 

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I agree with anatess but might even take it further. Be who you are is no value whatsoever. Be who you are meant to be -- now there's a value.

 

There is also a big difference between humbly facing weaknesses with strength and courage, and the celebration of those weaknesses -- even if said weaknesses are thorns in the side that will never be removed in this life (a robustly debatable concept when it comes to preferences, tastes and inclinations).

 

Note: this response is in regards to anatess's post, and not necessarily directly related to the OP question or the video (which I have not watched). 

 

Hi Folk The Prophet!

 

I think I get what you are saying. I think you are trying to take account for the fact that some people might identify themselves with something that isn't good. I have a slightly different take on this. I believe the statement, "Be who you are" is valid because who you are and who all of us are, are spirit children of God or spirits of God. Our identity is set and permanent. It is a matter of discovering, recognizing, and believing who we truly are. 

 

So, when someone states, "Be who you are" then it must be understood that who you are has been defined long before you ever came to this earth and because who you are is good, pure, and from God, then that is precisely how a person should comport themselves.

 

-Finrock

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I agree with folk prophet here.

Be who you  are?  What if you are an alcoholic or drug addict?  Then we should "celebrate" that and "support you" in that?  I don't think so.

I like be what you are meant to be.

dc

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Hi Folk The Prophet!

 

I think I get what you are saying. I think you are trying to take account for the fact that some people might identify themselves with something that isn't good. I have a slightly different take on this. I believe the statement, "Be who you are" is valid because who you are and who all of us are, are spirit children of God or spirits of God. Our identity is set and permanent. It is a matter of discovering, recognizing, and believing who we truly are. 

 

So, when someone states, "Be who you are" then it must be understood that who you are has been defined long before you ever came to this earth and because who you are is good, pure, and from God, then that is precisely how a person should comport themselves.

 

-Finrock

 

Yeah. Except Satan is also a spirit child of God.

 

It's really just how you view it though. As I see it, who we "are" is fallen mortals -- which is not who we should be striving to be. Who we "are" is imperfect. Who we "are" is carnal and sensual beings, natural men, who are enemies to God.

 

But like I said, it's really just in how you view it. I don't think we disagree.

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Yeah. Except Satan is also a spirit child of God.

 

It's really just how you view it though. As I see it, who we "are" is fallen mortals -- which is not who we should be striving to be. Who we "are" is imperfect. Who we "are" is carnal and sensual beings, natural men, who are enemies to God.

 

But like I said, it's really just in how you view it. I don't think we disagree.

 

There is a distinction here, though. Lucifer has no light in him. He doesn't have the spark of divinity. He isn't mortal. He is outer darkness. Satan has a fullness of wickedness, therefore there is no part of the devil that exist in God and there is no part of God that exist in Satan.

 

This is not the case for us mortals, not even for the most wicked of men and women. The scriptures teach not that "we" are an enemy to God, but that the natural man or flesh is an enemy to God. Our spirit is from God. No matter how small the spark within each man or woman, that spark of divinity, that spirit, is clean, pure, and good and has a direct link to God. It is only our ignorance and/or unbelief that provides the barrier. In my life there was a time when I felt like I was trapped inside of a dark chaotic ball of misery. It was literally spirit prison. My spirit was good and pure but I couldn't see past my ignorance and sin. I didn't believe but I was not in outer darkness and my spark of divinity, the light that is within me (to whatever degree) was and has been pure.

 

Only those who have committed the unpardonable sin are without any spark of divinity within them.

 

Who we are is more than our flesh and mortality. We aren't flesh or mortal. Who we are has existed before this earth. We took part in this earth's creation. We were present in the pre-mortal council. Our identity has NOT changed because we become mortal man. We have only forgotten who we are. So what this really points to is that those who know who they are must be striving to declare this to all those who do not know and who will hear. We must teach the homosexual, the heterosexual, the rapist, the murderer, the whatever, that they are NOT mortal man but that they are eternal spirits housed within a mortal frame. This knowledge will allow them to see past the delusions of mortality and the illusions of Satan and grasp hold of greater and eternal principles. With this knowledge and understanding a person can then begin to act according to who they really are.

 

-Finrock

Edited by Finrock

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