Baltimore riots

[unixknight]

I thought you agreed that these officers should be answerable?

[bytor2112]

I thought you agreed that these officers should be answerable?

 

Answerable...not railroaded. Investigated...yes. 

[unixknight]

Answerable...not railroaded. Investigated...yes. 

 

Again, nobody here has been calling for railroading.

 

And... if it were up to you, who would do the investigation?

 

Meanwhile, I found an interesting article talking about how on average, violent crime in America is down yet incidents of police shooting people is up.  Kinda leads me to scratch my head when I hear apologists talking about how cops need all this military equipment to do their job.

[bytor2112]

In Baltimore they are.....and I am guessing the Feds will investigate as was the case in Furgeson. As for the military gear, I am not for a para miltary style PD.

[unixknight]

In Baltimore they are.....and I am guessing the Feds will investigate as was the case in Furgeson. As for the military gear, I am not for a para miltary style PD.

 

There'll always be people out there calling for that.  I'm talking about within this thread :)

[Guest LiterateParakeet]

Eric Garner wasn't murdered ( the officer was not indicted) 

 

So you think O.J. Simpson was innocent because a jury did not find him guilty?  

 

 

[Guest LiterateParakeet]

6 Baltimore Police Officers Charged in Freddie Gray Death

 

A couple quotes from this article that sum up my feelings:

 

“This is a great day, and I think we need to realize that,” said Representative Elijah E. Cummings, Democrat of Maryland. “I think a message has been sent by our state’s attorney that she treasures every life, that she values every person.” 

 

"Mayor Stephanie Rawlings-Blake of Baltimore said most of the city’s officers were good, but added, “To those who choose to engage in violence, brutality, racism and brutality, let me be clear: There is no place in the Baltimore Police Department for you.”

 

 

 

I also thought this line was really interesting...I'd never heard of that charge before.

 

The most serious charges were brought against Officer Caesar R. Goodson Jr., who was driving the van that carried Mr. Gray to a police station after his April 12 arrest. Along with involuntary manslaughter, Officer Goodson, 45, was charged with “second-degree depraved heart murder,” which means indifference to human life.

 

I'm also interested in this part of the case...as has been discussed here...I've never really thought about what probable cause for arrest would be.  It will be interesting to see what the court decides about that.

 

Ms. Mosby faulted the police conduct at every turn. The officers who arrested him “failed to establish probable cause for Mr. Gray’s arrest, as no crime had been committed,” she said, describing the arrest as illegal. Officers accused him of possession of a switchblade, but Ms. Mosby said, “The knife was not a switchblade and is lawful under Maryland law.”

 

[Guest LiterateParakeet]

Odd day when Alan Dershowitz and I are on similar pages....

 

Alan Dershowitz really went after Baltimore State’s Attorney Marilyn Mosby today forcharging the six cops involved in the death ofFreddie Gray, saying it was entirely based on politics and “crowd control.

 

There's a couple things that stand out for me here...

First, we all remember the article you shared about a prisoner claiming that Freddie Gray was throwing himself around the van in an effort to harm himself (which I thought was ridiculous).  Apparently that prisoner says that's not what he meant at all. this article is linked in your second article)

I notice that Mr. Dershowitz says: 

It will be “virtually impossible,” he predicted, for the six officers involved to get a fair trial.

 

 

 

How is that different than any other high profile case?  Is he suggesting that this situation be ignored because it would be hard to get a fair trial?  Should we let anyone charged in a high profile case walk because it will be hard to get them a fair trial?

 

 

And as for murder charges, Dershowitz said there’s “no plausible, hypothetical, conceivable case for murder

 

 

That may be his opinion, but obviously a lot of people feel otherwise.  I'd love to hear him try to explain how Freddie Gray died if it wasn't murder, but at any rate it's up for the court to decide now...as it should be.

[bytor2112]

Some good commentary in this interview....

[Just_A_Guy]

Meanwhile, I found an interesting article talking about how on average, violent crime in America is down yet incidents of police shooting people is up.

Well, duh. Crime is decreasing because lots of the bad guys who do that kind of thing have already been shot.

[Tongue planted firmly in cheek]

Edited May 2, 2015 by Just_A_Guy

[Guest LiterateParakeet]

This is a good summary of what we know so far including why arresting the officers was called for:

 

Freddie Gray's Death Ruled a Homecide, Officers Face Charges

[Guest MormonGator]

This is a good summary of what we know so far including why arresting the officers was called for:

 

Freddie Gray's Death Ruled a Homecide, Officers Face Charges

 100% agree. The officers certainly need to be charged and prosecuted for this. 

[unixknight]

Well, duh. Crime is decreasing because lots of the bad guys who do that kind of thing have already been shot.

[Tongue planted firmly in cheek]

 

Great, now I'm going to Hell because I laughed at that...  

[Guest LiterateParakeet]

Great, now I'm going to Hell because I laughed at that...

LOL, now worries we'll have a LDS.net meet up there...likely a large group. :)

[prisonchaplain]

One solution--perhaps only a small portion of the answer--is for even more to answer the call to law enforcement chaplaincy.  BTW, that's not what I am.  My area is corrections.  The dark side--inside the walls.  Law enforcement chaplains are volunteer.  They go through training, and usually ride with police, or fire fighters.  They help with death and serious accident notifications.  They become accepted, over time, as part of the department.  From a secular standpoint, they do help many officers remember that theirs is a high calling.  There is also the sense of support, even if the chaplain is never approached.  Frankly, they remind our protectors that the Almighty is present.  Such may not prevent all abuse, but a greater presence would be a greater help.

[Guest LiterateParakeet]

One solution--perhaps only a small portion of the answer--is for even more to answer the call to law enforcement chaplaincy.  BTW, that's not what I am.  

 

Fascinating idea, thanks PC!  I wasn't aware that such a thing existed but I think it's a wonderful idea.  I'm really intrigued by that.

 

By the way, I don't know if I ever told you, but I admire what you do immensely.

 

ETA: In case anyone is as curious as I am...American Police Chaplains Association

Edited May 2, 2015 by LiterateParakeet

[unixknight]

Wow that's pretty cool.  I never knew such a thing existed either.  No doubt there are those who don't like the idea if they see it as mixing church and state... but bleh.  If it helps, it's a good thing.

[Guest LiterateParakeet]

Unixknight, there are military chaplains, so I don't think there's too much fuss about church and state...now if attending church was a job requirement that's a different story.

[unixknight]

That's true, but I keep reading stories about greater and greater restrictions placed on them... So I can't help but wonder how much longer they'll be there.

[yjacket]

Well, duh. Crime is decreasing because lots of the bad guys who do that kind of thing have already been shot.

[Tongue planted firmly in cheek]

A lot of interesting correlations with crime rates going down coinciding with the drop in exposure to lead and with legalization of abortion.  Correlation != causation, but interesting nonetheless.  

 

I guess with lead the claim is that over-exposure to lead makes people aggressive and the claim with abortions is that abortions mean less kids born into bad circumstances ('cuz only people who are in bad circumstances would have abortions . . . I guess).  I have no idea if there is any truth to these ideas.

 

Personally, I just think it has to do with an aging population, less kids per woman = less young individuals (teens to 30s) as a percentage of the population.  The vast majority of crime is committed by younger people so when that age group is as a percentage is smaller it means as a percentage crime will go down . . . but what do I know.

[unixknight]

Dr. Ben Carson, Neurosurgeon says:

 

The type of severe spinal injury suffered by Freddie Gray "requires a great deal of direct pressure to that area," meaning, "there is a high likelihood that direct trauma occurred," the presidential prospect wrote on Facebook Friday.

 

"It would be almost impossible to acquire such an injury by simply rolling around in a van, regardless of how violently," he wrote Friday on Facebook. "Let us hope that whoever inflicted said trauma did not intend to yield such an outcome."

 

Link

[prisonchaplain]

That's true, but I keep reading stories about greater and greater restrictions placed on them... So I can't help but wonder how much longer they'll be there.

 

 

There are already calls, mostly because of the Chaplain Wes Modder case, for an end to chaplaincy.  Why, they ask, are government dollars paying the salaries of clergy, who preach hate against me and those with my gender orientation?  I suspect the day is coming when government chaplains will be replaced by adding a few more "secular chaplains" (i.e. psychologists/licensed therapists) to the rolls. 

[unixknight]

Funny how their tax dollars have to support only those things that are friendly to them, but my tax dollars are still being taken to fund Planned Parenthood.

[Litzy]

Just to keep things in perspective:

 

According to the National Law Enforcement Officers Memorial Fund 682 law enforcement officers were killed in the line of duty in the past five years in the United States. That averages out to over 136 dead law enforcement officers each year.

Conversely, on average, there were 96 black males who are killed by white police officers each year–and another 300 white males who are killed by police officers according to FBI statistics.

Then there’s this… There were 431 black killers of “whites” in 2014, compared to 193 “white” killers of blacks while blacks make up only 13% of the national population. There were approximately 6,000 black on black murders last year.

 

 

This is a good perspective, and numbers that need to be recognized, but we do need to be careful to not drag out such information when it isn't the place.

 

Yes, there is a subculture in black communities that encourages and praises black-on-black violence, but don't doubt many more recognize the problem and seek to stop it. No, it doesn't get all the media attention that it probably deserves and it can certainly use even greater effort in support, but do know the black community does recognize and seek to fix this problem.

 

However, when racial problems, perceived or real, come up, it doesn't to a lot of good to say "Yeah, well, black folks kill each other all the time."

 

Yes, there are nasty numbers, but it's a tangent away from the current discussion.

[RMGuy]

If you're outraged over the riots in Baltimore, you should be. If you're also not just a little concerned about how a man can be taken into custody for 'acting suspiciously' and somehow, during transport, while handcuffed, end up with a severed spine and a crushed voicebox then you're also part of the problem.