Should a bishop be notified if a man, receiving fast offerings, smokes?


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I work with a member of the church who smokes. He was baptized about a year ago and does go to church. I, his boss, know from speaking with him that he receives funds from the church because he needs help paying for the bills. I was generous to give him a raise, even though he said that his bishop helps him out with providing funds from fast offerings. 

 

At this point, I'm not sure if I should tell his bishop that those funds are likely being spent on cigarettes or just leave it alone. I'm not sure if you need to be "worthy" to receive such funds, but I just dont feel right about letting it go on without any change. The way I see it, is if he wants to smoke and waste his health and money on it, that's fine. But he should not be using the church's money on it. 

 

Any input would be helpful, thanks!

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Having been someone who had to ask for help such as this person in the past, never was I ever just given funds to go out and purchase the things I needed.  If it was food I was sent to the Bishop's storehouse.  If I needed help paying rent or utilities, a check was made out directly to those organizations.  But again, I was never just given funds to do with as I pleased.

 

So I'm not sure if it is necessary to bring it up to the Bishop.

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Guest LiterateParakeet

I agree with Pam.  The church helped me with bills, therapy and food from the Storehouse.  They have never given me cash.

 

I've never been a smoker, but I've heard that it can be as addictive as heroin.  I don't think assistance should be withdrawn just because he has an addiction.  For all we know, he is working with his Bishop on overcoming this.

 

I think you should just leave this between, him, his Bishop and Heavenly Father.

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Pam is correct... the church does not hand people cash...  It will provide food, it will write checks to cover existing bills.

 

This means his smokes come from the pay check you give him for his work.

 

Now the bishop might or might not be aware of the guys Word of Wisdom issues.  In many cases its is not our place to confess on behalf of another.  If you feel this case warrants an exception (and some do) then you simply inform the bishop and then drop all concern about it.  Leave it to the bishop to follow the spirit on what this brother needs right now in his life.

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In my experience in the RS presidency, I am fully confident that the Bishop is aware of the smoking. It is the Bishop's responsibility to determine the distribution of sacred funds.  I'm also confident that it isn't church funds paying for the smoking. 

 

Just continue to sustain the bishop and allow him to use his God given discernment in allocating sacred funds,  

 

So, I say, leave this alone.  Let the man deal with his sins as he is capable.  I applaud the man for continuing to go to church even though he continues to smoke.  Too many think they aren't worthy to attend church.    

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Guest MormonGator

The smell of tobacco smoke is a good sign, it means people are trying to still go to church while admitting they are human. it's probably not a good idea to view smoking as more sinful than other wrong doings. My old bishop said it best 'We're all sinners here." 

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The smell of tobacco smoke is a good sign, it means people are trying to still go to church while admitting they are human. it's probably not a good idea to view smoking as more sinful than other wrong doings. My old bishop said it best 'We're all sinners here." 

 

I don't think it is the actual smoking that the OP is concerned with.  I think it's the misconception that fast offering money is being used to purchase the cigarettes.  

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Guest MormonGator

I don't think it is the actual smoking that the OP is concerned with.  I think it's the misconception that fast offering money is being used to purchase the cigarettes.

My bad. Sorry I misread it. 

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I don't think it is the actual smoking that the OP is concerned with.  I think it's the misconception that fast offering money is being used to purchase the cigarettes.  

 

Is it really a misconception, though?  I mean, technically, the exact dollars given were not used for the cigarettes, but let's look at this differently:

If I have $20, and need to pay an $18 bill, want a $7 pack of cigarettes, and thus borrow $5 from you, is there really any difference between making sure your actual $5 bill and $13 of my money pay the bill, and spending your $5 and $2 of my money on the cigs while using only my money to pay the bill?  

 

As someone who has quit smoking more times than I can count, I don't ask for charity until I've given up everything that I can possibly do without in the meantime to do as much as possible for myself.  I'd rather take my chances on being able to bum a few smokes to keep from chewing holes in the furniture than ask for food so I can save my money to buy a pack.  That said, yes, it is a very tough addiction to break, and I'm certain the bishop can smell that the guy is still smoking.

 

If you want to help the guy, he's obviously pretty deep in the addiction, so why not help him change it?  If there's a vape shop nearby, offer to help him get started on the condition that he has to cut the regular cigs down to zero within a month or pay you back every cent of the initial cost.  It's been working for me, though slower than I'd hoped; changing the nicotine source is sort of like redirecting a force rather than directly resisting it.  Once I've fully moved over to the ecig, I can start buying lower nicotine juice until I'm at zero, and have only a habit, rather than an addiction to break.

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Is it really a misconception, though?  I mean, technically, the exact dollars given were not used for the cigarettes, but let's look at this differently:

If I have $20, and need to pay an $18 bill, want a $7 pack of cigarettes, and thus borrow $5 from you, is there really any difference between making sure your actual $5 bill and $13 of my money pay the bill, and spending your $5 and $2 of my money on the cigs while using only my money to pay the bill?  

 

 

The bottom line is:  Money from fast offerings were not used to purchase cigarettes.  And actual cash money doesn't cross hands.  Any help is paid directly to people such as landlord, utility company.  So any money spent on cigarettes would have to come from this person's own paycheck.

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I think what Night is trying to say is that if someone needs the Church to help them by paying their electric bill, that frees up funds from their paycheck to buy cigarettes, when they may possibly have been able to pay that particular bill themselves if they didn't smoke.

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I think what Night is trying to say is that if someone needs the Church to help them by paying their electric bill, that frees up funds from their paycheck to buy cigarettes, when they may possibly have been able to pay that particular bill themselves if they didn't smoke.

 

 

And that may be correct.  But, my point is that the Bishop is aware of this.  Trust me, that Bishop isn't a clueless nimrod who is being swindled out of money.  It is the Bishop's responsibility for the sacred funds of the fast.  My experience is that bishops take that very seriously.  

 

If he wants to tell the bishop that this guy is smoking, fine--have at it.  BUT, he then needs to let it go.  If that individual continues to receive church assistance, it is the responsibility of the bishop, not the member to make that call. 

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Financially, we all are in different situations and at times may require assistance from the Church. If you gave this individual a raise to help financially then you possibly have an obligation to inform his bishop.  

 

My experience, each bishop handles finances very differently, and your insight might be an answer to a prayer he has been inquiring the Lord about.  As a saying goes in our Stake, as given by G.A.'s, "Information proceeds revelation." Not an exact quote.  

 

Once you have informed the bishop though, Beefche is correct, it is no longer a concern of yours.  The information is now in the mind and heart of him who is responsible and has stewardship over the financial assistance of the ward your employee resides in. 

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Lots of good advice on this thread.  Especially the part about if you tell the bishop, then it's time to drop it.  That means you stop thinking about it.  That means, the next time you see the guy smoking and talking about receiving welfare, you don't wonder when the bishop is going to take action.  You don't start thinking up things the bishop should be doing, and then getting upset when you see them not happening.

 

[Not saying italianstallion would do any of this.  Just saying I see people doing this all the time.  It's hard to pass along information and just stop paying attention.]

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My advice is to let it go unless you truly feel something nefarious is going on with the funds. In most cases, the bishop helps more directly than just giving X$. I hear many bishops go over the person's personal finances in order to help with assistance. At this point, trust it's being handled as well as it can be.

 

I heard a missionary recently mention a cool story about a convert who was an alcoholic who couldn't quite go cold turkey as it would possibly kill him, so addicted was he. The convert was so determined to kick it he and his wife had a little emergency fund to pay for the hospital and a bar on the way if sudden alcoholic deprivation physically punched him. The missionary said last he heard the man was working toward sobriety.

 

Addiction can take awhile to kick.

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I work with a member of the church who smokes. He was baptized about a year ago and does go to church. I, his boss, know from speaking with him that he receives funds from the church because he needs help paying for the bills. I was generous to give him a raise, even though he said that his bishop helps him out with providing funds from fast offerings.

At this point, I'm not sure if I should tell his bishop that those funds are likely being spent on cigarettes or just leave it alone. I'm not sure if you need to be "worthy" to receive such funds, but I just dont feel right about letting it go on without any change. The way I see it, is if he wants to smoke and waste his health and money on it, that's fine. But he should not be using the church's money on it.

Any input would be helpful, thanks!

Compassion does not have conditions. But his Bishop can ask that members attend and give service. So if he knows he can challenge him to make an effort to obey the WoW, and ask for him to meet with his weekly or bi-weekly so that he has someone to be accountability with. Not sure however as his boss if you should be the one to tell the Bishop...tread lightly.
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I would like to mirror those that have said to just stay out of it. All you know is that he is receiving help, trust the bishop to aid in that. You have already done your part, it would seem, by giving this man a raise. 

 

I would simply respect the fact that he felt comfortable telling you about it and leave it at that. 

 

There are many that while receiving assistance still have internet, cable, cell phones payments, go out to dinner every once in a while, go to the movies, etc... there are many many things that one could give up and save every penny, and the bishop, the EQ, the RS... are all aware of them and help them along their way. Yes that includes smoking. 

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It's none of your business. Especially as his boss, it's none of your business. 

You are desiring to meddle in an employee's personal life. You are way out of bounds.

And it seems you are motivated by a desire to pass judgment on someone else.

 

Moreover, in my opinion the decision to use the money I have payed into fast offerings (for whatever purpose) is not mine.  The decision belongs to the Bishop, and I (personally) am content to allow him to make a mistake from time to time, if indeed a mistake is made.  I cannot know, and I feel compelled to trust in the Lord in this particular context.  Certainly in this context judgement is not mine.  Hopefully, I'll be looked upon with at least the same modicum of mercy.

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I'd rather have guidance and direction, rather than unconditional charity.

I'd rather be taught to fish, rather than being given a fish.

It only takes one day to loose an addiction.  In fact, any alcoholic or drug addict is only sober and clean for one day at a time.  Today. 

And it only starts when they reach that point where they decide to do something about it.

Then work a 12 step program to stay clean and sober, and smoke free, one day at a time for the rest of their life.

But they have to want that, and if they do, they get it.

Here's what I'd do.  I'd ask the guy to have a serious talk with the intent of helping him.  (And note here that helping him is to help him live smoke free, not buying him cigarettes).

I'd ask if he was on assistance.  Yes.

I'd ask if the Bishop knew he was still smoking, and receiving assistance.  Yes.

No further involvement.

No.  I feel it is my duty to inform the Bishop that he is enabling you to continue in this addiction.  Unless you are willing to do that in my presence. 

Yes, it's bold.  It's dangerous.  But it may save a life. 

Would you rather let it go and later see him die of lung cancer?

I wouldn't.

dc

 

Of course I would also help him as mentioned above with 12 step help.

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It's none of your business. Especially as his boss, it's none of your business.

You are desiring to meddle in an employee's personal life. You are way out of bounds.

And it seems you are motivated by a desire to pass judgment on someone else.

 

Not necessarily so.  If we have information a bishop does not we are duty bound to inform the bishop of circumstances.  People abuse the Church and its welfare assistance, and with proper information bishops can make better or more educated decisions in accordance with revelation.

 

Our ward has had its fair share of abusers.  With additional information which have been brought to our bishops attention at times better decisions were made regarding families. Example, true story, family reaches out for assistance during Christmas. Bishop is happy to help.  Bishop was informed father just purchased a $500 golf pass so he could play golf.  Now the bishop has better information which he can discuss with the father privately.  Yes, it doesn't matter where we work, if we are in the neighborhood or not, if we have information of possible abuse of sacred funds, we are duty bound to let it be known (privately with the bishop) and then let he who has stewardship to make the decision.

Edited by Anddenex
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Not necessarily so.  If we have information a bishop does not we are duty bound to inform the bishop of circumstances.  People abuse the Church and its welfare assistance, and with proper information bishops can make better or more educated decisions in accordance with revelation.

 

Our ward has had its fair share of abusers.  With additional information which have been brought to our bishops attention at times better decisions were made regarding families. Example, true story, family reaches out for assistance during Christmas. Bishop is happy to help.  Bishop was informed father just purchased a $500 golf pass so he could play golf.  Now the bishop has better information which he can discuss with the father privately.  Yes, it doesn't matter where we work, if we are in the neighborhood or not, if we have information of possible abuse of sacred funds, we are duty bound to let it be known (privately with the bishop) and then let he who has stewardship to make the decision.

 

In the case of the OP, his employee smokes and he know he is on church assistance. I am not sure that he is duty bound to meddle in that mans affairs because of this. 

 

Now what about being in the position of the employer? Let's say that you do tell the bishop, they stop receiving assistance and now regardless of your assumption (correct or not) they can't make it monthly and fall further and further behind. The employee finds out you had something to do with that. Are you opening yourself up to liability being their employer by engaging in their personal life? You weren't a neighbor. You weren't a ward member  - you were his employer. This, I think is tricky. To he OP: My answer would still be, do not engage unless you have some kind of concrete proof that 1) the person is basically stealing funds from the church 2) you know for a fact that the bishop isn't aware of it. 

 

I worked for a company that aided in helping people that were behind on their mortgages make plans and catch up, modify or some other workout plan. Now there were times where on the financials, they would have help from an LDS church. Now I (for the most part) got to see the whole picture where a bishop might not have. It's not like I could call up the bishop to let them know of items that didn't sound or look right. I had no place to do so and would have opened the company up to lawsuits by calling or talking to third parties that I (business wise) had no reason to talk to them. It would appear to me that an employer could fall into that same predicament. There was once that I received permission to talk to a bishop about anything on the account, and it happened to be on one that I felt it wasn't right. The bishop asked the right questions and stopped helping that man. 

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