Excommunication Letter

[Beccabee2]

Alright so....I came across this article from a non-LDS friend who posted it on Facebook. I've already begun to explain to my non-LDS friend, who can't fathom why someone would be "kicked out of their Church for loving someone", about God's commandments and the principle of obedience. But I would like to hear what anyone else has to say in regards to this young man's letter to his bishop about this issue. 
 

 

For previous background: This individual received a letter from his bishop in which it was stated that disciplinary action was being considered due to his conduct that is unbecoming of a member. 
 

Edited May 9, 2015 by Eowyn
link removed

[carlimac]

Alright so....I came across this article from a non-LDS friend who posted it on Facebook. I've already begun to explain to my non-LDS friend, who can't fathom why someone would be "kicked out of their Church for loving someone", about God's commandments and the principle of obedience. But I would like to hear what anyone else has to say in regards to this young man's letter to his bishop about this issue. 

 

 

For previous background: This individual received a letter from his bishop in which it was stated that disciplinary action was being considered due to his conduct that is unbecoming of a member. 

If he can't figure out what he has done to deserve excommunication he is in serious denial. As sincere as the letter may be, it's a farce.

Edited May 9, 2015 by Eowyn
link removed

[Vort]

Your friends are ignorant and/or dishonest. The Church leadership is not looking to discipline ("kick out") a man because he loves another man. They are considering discipline him ("kicking him out") because he is having sex with another man. His "marriage", though perhaps legal, is a sham in the eyes of God. Thus says God through his prophet, and thus teaches God's kingdom. You need not accept that teaching, of course; but then, why are you whining about getting "kicked out" of an organization whose foundational principles you don't even agree with? Lunacy and hypocrisy.

 

In addition, I question the wisdom of posting what amounts to an anti-Mormon screed on this web site. No offense intended.

[Beccabee2]

 

In addition, I question the wisdom of posting what amounts to an anti-Mormon screed on this web site. No offense intended.

I'm not really sure what you mean by this. I posted this because I was curious as to the thoughts of others on how they would respond to my non-LDS friend. In context of the subject matter being discussed, the article was necessary to post. 

[Just_A_Guy]

There's a lot there, and I'm not really up for a point-by-point refutation. I would observe the following:

1. Not everything done in the name of "love" is morally right, and
2. In Mormon theology, life is seen as a training ground for a future existence in which a person might--if he has, through Christ's atonement, developed the necessary Godlike virtues--have absolute power to create (and destroy) life. A major purpose for this life is to prove that we can be trusted with that sort of power (so that you don't wind up with the sort of chaos imagined by the ancient Greeks, who described gods that created people out of mere boredom, started wars on a whim, and routinely tortured/raped their creations for the mere sport of it). To use the power to copulate (or to kill) for mere self-gratification in a means contrary to the way God intended, is therefore a very grave sin; and those who encourage such behaviors are in a very real sense jeopardizing the eternal reward of those naive enough to listen to them. That's why the Church reserves the right to excommunicate in these sorts of cases--so that unrepentant sinners can't use their church membership as a means to recruit others into sin.

Edited May 9, 2015 by Just_A_Guy

[Beccabee2]

There's a lot there, and I'm not really up for a point-by-point refutation. I would observe the following:

1. Not everything done in the name of "love" is morally right, and

2. In Mormon theology, life is seen as a training ground for a future existence in which a person might--if he has, through Christ's atonement, developed the necessary Godlike virtues--have absolute power to create (and destroy) life. To use the power to copulate (or to kill) in a means contrary to the way God intended, is therefore a very grave sin; and those who encourage such behaviors are in a very real sense jeopardizing the eternal reward of those naive enough to listen to them. That's why the Church reserves the right to excommunicate in these sorts of cases--so that unrepentant sinners can't use their church membership as a means to recruit others into sin.

I was doing my best to communicate these points but I wish I could have spoken them as eloquently as you did! What a concise explanation. Thanks!

[MrShorty]

I'm sure it is difficult for him to contemplate losing his membership in the Church. The main thought I have is that, after dealing with the grief of losing his membership, I hope he finds some way to still be involved with the Church. I hope he finds ways to continue to grow his relationship with the Savior. No matter what trials and challenges we face, we all need to rely on the Savior for our growth in this life and whatever "reward" we will get in the next life.

 

I am reminded of this thread here (http://lds.net/forums/topic/54539-i-just-read-this-blog-on-ssa-learned-a-few-things/ ) and the experience of Tom Christofferson (http://allarizona.org/wp-content/uploads/2014/05/What-Manner-ALL-2014.pdf ). After wrestling with himself and his sexuality and entering a monogamous homosexual relationship, he  decided he wanted the Church in his life. Even though he cannot be baptized because of his current relationship status, he and his bishop still work together to find ways for him to participate in church services. I hope that those around him, including the Bishop and others on the disciplinary council will truly treat this as a "court of love", recognizing that the only thing being decided is his membership status. I hope that they will continue reach out to him and his husband and try to help them stay as close to the Church as they will allow.

Edited May 9, 2015 by MrShorty

[askandanswer]

I think that, subject to the laws of the land, any organisation has the right to set its own rules and decide who it will admit as members and whom it will disallow. I was disappointed recently when the blue foot club kicked me out when they found out that my feet are actually green. I think this is an example of blatant discrimination against people with green feet and shows a complete lack of acceptance, respect and love for green footed people. Maybe this rule is based on outdated stereotypes of green footed people, but they are the rules, and the rules of the blue foot club clearly state that only people with blue feet can be members. It may be that at some future time, the rules of the club will be changed to allow green footed people to be members, but that's not what the rules say at the moment. Until that time, I'll do my best to continue to follow those aspects of the club that I enjoyed and found to be appealing even though I no longer belong to it. And I'll do my best to to accept that my right to live as I want is just as valid as the clubs' right to do what it wants and not become angry or bitter about the club.

[estradling75]

It is quite simple really.... 

 

He is violating the Law of Chastity (Sexual Relations are to be between a Man and Woman legally and lawfully married)

 

This is something he would have been taught growing up so it should not come as any surprise...

 

The fact that he goes off on other things he claims are "mistakes" made by the Church also point to the simple fact that he does not also share the belief that that Christ is leading the Church.  He is apostate plain and simple.  And that is entirely by his  choice and actions

[Anddenex]

1) The initial premise provided by your friend, "kicked out of their church for loving someone," is in error.  No one is kicked out of the Church for loving someone.  People are disfellowshipped/excommunicated for serious transgressions before the Lord, and Taylor and Sean are in serious transgression before the Lord and obviously from the letter unrepentant.

 

A man who is lawfully wed, steps out on his wife with other women "he loves" is not disciplined because he loved other women. He would be disciplined for unrepentant sin -- serious transgression.  

 

2) One of the reasons for excommunication is to protect the good name of the Church, and to protect the innocent.  In what way might excommunication protect innocent? 

[carlimac]

He is not being kicked out of the church. As others have stated, he can still attend, sing, listen and learn. He just can't take the sacrament, teach or pray in public or hold a calling.  But he is entirely welcome to come and be with other church members. He obviously never went through the temple so he has no privileges to be revoked there.  He might feel uncomfortable though if he comes with a chip on his shoulder.

 

One question for anyone who knows. Are there restrictions on  bearing his testimony in church?  I've heard non members bear testimony in sacrament meeting before.