Why do we need friends if we have God to rely on?

[David13]

You need friends for 100 different reasons.

So various friends fill or take certain needs.  You do something for them, or they do something for you.

Or, it is mutual backscratching.  Quid pro quo.  It can be equal, or not.

God is God and your friends are not God.

Sometimes you need a friend to set a fire under your butt to get you going, motivated, so you don't feel like a failure.  To tell you the truth.  To let you know things about you that no one else has the familiarity, the audacity and the sense to tell you.

dc

[richard7900]

All I can say is that it is very unwise for anyone to venture opining or speculating as to why they think someone might be or feel a failure. Because such opining and/or speculation is very likely well off the mark. And seeking to get this message across should not be seen as something out of the ordinary.

Edited May 29, 2015 by richard7900

[richard7900]

We were just responding to your entire thread...not just the thread title. Forgive our concern.

So, me on one side and we on the other.  It did not take long for that to develop did it.

[richard7900]

If I had never said anything about being a failure, there would have been no reason for anyone to opine on possible cause. But, once I did mention failure, some could not resist  pontificating on possible reasons. That's the problem here that I've attempted to point out. Anyway, I'll move on.

[The Folk Prophet]

So, me on one side and we on the other.  It did not take long for that to develop did it.

 

What do you expect when your responses to everyone's advice is contentious, accusatory, and frankly rude? You come in here asking for thoughts...we give them...and you lambaste us. Yeah...that pretty much puts you on one side and "we" on the other very quickly. Anything you don't agree with is speculation and a direct attack on you? It's really sort of ridiculous.

 

Even if some were speculating on the reasons for your failure (which is more you reading into the comments than what some have actually said), so what? Kindly correct the misunderstanding and show respect for the efforts to share helpful thoughts. Then we'd be getting somewhere. As it is, mostly, it seems you don't want to discuss anything on any terms but yours. You're determined to take offense where none was intended, and you've pretty much caused the entirety of the antagonism. Consequently, you get no further thoughts, no other philosophies, no expansion of ideas, or anything else of use to anyone. You just keep "fighting" with your back uselessly against the wall.

Edited May 29, 2015 by The Folk Prophet

[richard7900]

You are

 

What do you expect when your responses to everyone's advice is contentious, accusatory, and frankly rude? You come in here asking for thoughts...we give them...and you lambaste us. Yeah...that pretty much puts you on one side and "we" on the other very quickly. Anything you don't agree with is speculation and a direct attack on you? It's really sort of ridiculous.

 

Even if some were speculating on the reasons for your failure (which is more you reading into the comments than what some have actually said), so what? Kindly correct the misunderstanding and show respect for the efforts to share helpful thoughts. Then we'd be getting somewhere. As it is, mostly, it seems you don't want to discuss anything on any terms but yours. You're determined to take offense where none was intended, and you've pretty much caused the entirety of the antagonism. Consequently, you get no further thoughts, no other philosophies, no expansion of ideas, or anything else of use to anyone. You just keep "fighting" with your back uselessly against the wall.

 

Falsehood. I'm not really contentious, accusatory, or rude in character. I've only addressed those things which I felt were an attempt to opine on failure. Which opining was frankly erronious. You just want to see things entirely in your terms.  You own references and understanding. Obviously I'm sensitive about people's opining on reasons why I might feel a failure, and that has brought forward some responses from me. Which rersponses are now being used as a basis to draw an erronious characterisation.  No wonder people fail to find in the Church a home.

Edited May 30, 2015 by richard7900

[The Folk Prophet]

richard7900, Let me address this from the interaction you and I have had -- whereas I cannot speak for others fairly. So here's my perspective:

 

You raised a question: Are friends necessary to our success?

 

I responded to this point and this point alone, trying to legitimately address the issue -- and to point out that, like many gospel ideas, sometimes the approach is backwards -- along the lines of losing oneself to find oneself. I used the word "problem" distinctly referring to the question itself. The question, I suggest, is perhaps backward in that it starts from a premise of improving ourselves rather than from a premise of losing ourselves and being concerned with others. If any speculation was involved, it was concerning this premise.

 

You misread this and presume I'm speculation on your personal failures. Fine...I can see that you're reading my post wrong.

 

So I clarify. Up to this point, things are fine. I made a point -- you misread it -- I explain.

 

Here's where things go downhill: 

 

You said: "Seems to me the entire question is backwards and, likely, the root of the problem."

 

And you are holding out that this statement of yours is not speculation on your part?

 

You are having everyone believe that you are not alluding to my failures when you say "root of the problem"?

 

That by saying "Worrying about others helping us succeed vs. worrying about helping others succeed..." you fully expect everyone to believe is not an attempt to speculate as to the cause of any failures I might have? 

 

Defensive. Chip on shoulder. "Nuh-uh, you said..." Etc.

 

Determined that, despite my clarification, I meant it the way you read it rather than believing my clarification. Determined to be antagonistic even with my having, point-blank, told you that I was not speculating on your specific failure.

 

At this point, communication is dead. Over. Useless. And any interest I have in actually discussing the topic at hand is gone, because all you really seem to care about is proving that you're being put upon.

 

But let me answer this directly (though I'm sure you won't believe me.) I am not alluding to your specific failures. And yes, when I explain this, I fully expect "everyone" to believe that that it is not an attempt to speculate as to the cause of any failures you may have.

 

It makes me (and I presume others) feel set up. You come in and say "I am rather a failure. Should I use friends to succeed?" And someone says, (as I did), we should seek friends, but be concerned with their success rather than ours (please note: this is precisely what I suggested). And you come back with, "How dare you allude to my failures!?"

 

What!?

 

I'm talking about success. I'm talking about the means to success. I'm talking about principles of success. I'm discussing the theories and ideas behind success. I'm talking about what success actually means and what's actually important in life. I'm addressing the topic from an eternal perspective.

 

Ah, TFP, how interesting. Right?

 

No, of course not. I'm just speculating on why you're a failure, whatever that means, because, frankly, I don't believe you're an end-all failure, and were I actually speculating I would speculate that you're life is fine and you're probably dealing with some sort of temporary setback that's making you feel like a failure.

 

Uh-oh...now I did speculate on your failures. Whoops. Now I really put my foot in it. But what they hey. I've already had the reprimand. I might as well deserve it.

 

I'm not sure why I've allowed myself to continue to be drawn into this childish argument with you. I'm repenting of it. I will not engage in this discussion any more. I do hope you understand me, but I expect not. C'est la vie.

[Sojourn]

If God isn't concerned with time, what if he decided to put us all here on earth one at a time? Or a hermit, what commandments can they keep or break? Other than the first few commandments the rest are all sociological in nature. If salvation is our goal it would seem to me that our fist duty is to ensure we are on the road to salvation, then it is our duty to see (enfluence) our family is keeping on the road, then it is our duty to see  (enfluence) that other are being helped along the road.  This salvation thing appears to be a group effort.

[Guest]

If God isn't concerned with time, what if he decided to put us all here on earth one at a time? Or a hermit, what commandments can they keep or break? Other than the first few commandments the rest are all sociological in nature. If salvation is our goal it would seem to me that our fist duty is to ensure we are on the road to salvation, then it is our duty to see (enfluence) our family is keeping on the road, then it is our duty to see  (enfluence) that other are being helped along the road.  This salvation thing appears to be a group effort.

 

I agree with you.  Whether a hermit or the only person on Earth at a time how is it even possible to "keep or break" commandments?  It seems to me that all the commandments are in one way or another connected with our brothers and sisters (as I think you point out).

[The Folk Prophet]

I agree with you.  Whether a hermit or the only person on Earth at a time how is it even possible to "keep or break" commandments?  It seems to me that all the commandments are in one way or another connected with our brothers and sisters (as I think you point out).

 

Certainly one cannot murder if they're the only one on the earth. And stealing is out. But even just looking at the other ten commandments could they not still have other gods before God? Could they not still make graven images? Could they not still take the name of the Lord in vain? Could they not still fail to keep the Sabbath day holy? Could they not still dishonor their father and mother in spirit (surely you don't believe that orphans cannot break this commandment)? Could they not still lie to themselves and to God? Could they not still covet -- even if it was only for things they didn't have access to?

 

I find the idea that the commandments are only connected with our brothers and sisters decidedly short sighted.

 

Edit: I meant to address adultery separately and forgot. I think in the letter of the law, obviously...more than one person is required. I think in the spirit of the law...and the teachings from Jesus (he that looketh to lust...) and the implications therein that one may still break the law of chastity in spirit despite being alone.

Edited June 1, 2015 by The Folk Prophet

[Guest]

This thread is weirding me out... it is a very simple question that should have a "duh!" answer.

Why do we need friends if we have God to rely on?

TFP is correct. This is the wrong question. The error is present in the question itself. The question pre-supposes that friends are only needed for us to "rely on". It does not fulfill the gospel principle that we are to express our love for God through our love for others in the same way that Jesus honored his Father through his love and sacrifice for us. Obviously, we cannot practice Christ's teachings and the principle of LOVE (the great commandment) without our "neighbors". Love, Charity, Service, Priesthood, Marriage, Parenthood... all bedrock principles of the Plan of Salvation, is expressed through how we do these things to others without needing to receive these things in return (taught with clarity in the teaching to not let the left hand know what the right hand is doing).

That's really all there is to it.

Therefore, having friends is our expression of accepting that calling to love and serve specific people. Marriage is our covenant to love and serve one specific person.

Edited June 1, 2015 by anatess

[Vort]

In his brutally cynical existential play "No Exit" (Huis Clos), Jean-Paul Sartre* has one of his characters famously declare, "Hell is other people" («L'enfer, c'est les autres»). I believe that one of the important things we are to learn here is to value other people's company rather than deplore them. This is much easier for some people to do than for others, and is much easier to do with some than with others.

 

I have often wondered about Sparta, a society that has long seemed to me to be a good approximation of hell on earth. (Since Spartan women were expected to get by on their own for the most part, they had a lot of say in how their society ran; as a result, I have heard numerous feminist types, usually teachers, wax loquatious about how much they would have loved to live in ancient Sparta. In my less noble moments, I have wished they could have the desire of their hearts, on condition that they had to stay there forever and could never return to report on it.) How can one love such people? If we were subject to them (as slaves, naturally), how could we possibly hope for anything but their utter annihilation? A much more recent and perhaps better example is the pitiless Comanche culture; if you haven't already done so, read about Rachel Plummer some time. "Hell is other people", indeed!

 

Yet this is not Christ's view of things. Somehow, we have to make sure it also is not ours. It's easy enough to love the loveable, but somehow we must learn to love those who seem utterly unloveable. Nibley quoted Brigham Young to the effect that the hardest thing for him [brigham] to learn was to love those who sought his destruction, and that he hadn't learned the lesson yet, but he was trying.

 

*Sartre's name reminds me of one of my all-time favorite sigs, supposedly a Vonnegut quote, and one that works best in a monospace font:

 

To be is to do - Socrates

To do is to be - Sartre

Do be do be do - Sinatra

[char713]

We need each other, at the very least our families and spouses, in order to learn how to serve and how to be patient and selfless. 

 

I don't think that friendships are a requirement though in any way for exhaltation. I have also tested quite high on the introversion scale, and that result didn't surprise me at all. It is still important to associate with other people for the sake of service and so that we can depend on and trust one another. But dependability and trust, and even mutual respect, do not necessarily equal friendship. I only ever feel like a failure for my -very- short list of people I who consider me a friend when I spend too much time thinking about extrovert qualities or spend too much time with a large group of extroverts. Or if I ever spend more than a few minutes passively browsing facebook, too. Things that come so easily to extroverts - things that are essential to them - are completely befuddling to me. So I do not feel bad for not having friends. I have my siblings and my husband and I can find conversation wherever, whenever I start to miss any additional human connection. I don't think it is a necessary requirement for business success either. Plenty of CEO's, celebrities, and other very successful and respected people are introverted, they simply have expanded upon their other skills to the point where sociability is barely a factor any more. 

[richard7900]

Can I just point out that there is no such thing as the wrong question here.

"Why do we need friends if we have God to rely on?" 

The question is aimed at the thought that if we rely on God, then in theory it is God who helps us overcome. But, the question begs another question: "Does God help us through others, through friendships in particular, or even something less than friendship? I have my own thoughts on the answer.

 

I guess I think people should be pointing out that it is generally the case that God helps us, through other people. So, perhaps the answer to the first question is, we need friends, because God helps us through friends, etc.

 

Although I suppose many a prophet, nay many a person has felt God his only friend.

Edited June 2, 2015 by richard7900

[Guest]

Can I just point out that there is no such thing as the wrong question here.

"Why do we need friends if we have God to rely on?" 

The question is aimed at the thought that if we rely on God, then in theory it is God who helps us overcome. But, the question begs another question: "Does God help us through others, through friendships in particular, or even something less than friendship? I have my own thoughts on the answer.

 

I guess I think people should be pointing out that it is generally the case that God helps us, through other people. So, perhaps the answer to the first question is, we need friends, because God helps us through friends, etc.

 

Although I suppose many a prophet, nay many a person has felt God his only friend.

Allow me to clarify. I might not have expressed it properly (or maybe used the wrong sentence as English is not my native language). I said it is the wrong question in the same manner as this question:

Why do we we need noses if we have our mouths to breathe with?

I called this a wrong question because it is based on a faulty premise that the nose is only for breathing.

[Blackmarch]

Are friends or other mortals significant in our lives concerning the issue of success in life,  in light of the fact that we can call on God to help us succeed in life and overcome?

 

I ask because I'm rather a failure. And wonder whether I should bother or plan to place some kind of reliance on "mere" mortals to improve my situation.

Moses needed Joshua to hold his arms up, so that the battle would go in their favor.

secondly how can you help others if you seperate yourself from them?

[Roseslipper]

Spencer W Kimball one of our beloved Prophets said, God does notice us and answers our prayers, it is usually though another person, or something close to that.

Also another quote when. Ye are in service of. your fellow being, you are in service of your God.

Friends (people) are a blessing to our lives. I am a blessed women because of the people in my life, and Ihope that they are blessed because of me. We are supposed to touch each other s lives love one another. Friends are an enrichment to our lives, though sometimes it has the opposite effect. But people help us to learn and grow.

To me I believe I've said it before. One of my biggest blessing s

[Roseslipper]

Oops didn't mean to post it yet so I'll continue here are people. How would we learn to grow and serve with out people...? Our earth life is all about learning, the good, not so good the bad. I was a Introvert along time ago, some times I can fall back into it, but I'm more an extrovert now and I m happii that way.Barbara sang people who need people are the luckiest people in the world.. we need to touch people's lives how alse will make this world a better place? How could we Learn, to love, to be respectful, to be kind, to listen to have compassion etc etc to have all the great qualities with out people. Yes God has all power and can do all things, but if He did all things for us how would we learn???

[Roseslipper]

We get confused on what's more Important in life!!! It's not the worldly stuff, it's the spiritual stuff!!!.....It's helping to build His Kingdom and that's all about people......

[Roseslipper]

We get confused on what's more Important in life!!! It's not the worldly stuff, it's the spiritual stuff!!!.....It's helping to build His Kingdom and that's all about people......