Who Is An American?

[Elphaba]

Elphaba, the problem with screening people out in the days of Ellis Island was that the sheer numbers of people coming in made it impossible to individually process everyone. However, especially in the early part of the 20th. Century the ideal was that screening would take place. You are correct that only 1 in 50 people were denied entry but again, the notion of screening was there (it was just impractical).

Tell me something I don't know.

Earlier you said: "But seriously, the immigration policy of the USA used to be based on the idea of getting the best, brightest and healthiest people here. That's what Ellis Island was all about."

Screening at Ellis Island was not about the "best and the brightest." It was about the "acceptable."

However, it is notable that it was the entrepreneurial people who tended to be the pioneers to the USA. The people who left Europe wanted something better. The desperately poor could not afford to leave, those satisfied there stayed and the rich stayed. Those who support the notion of the risk-taking personality (type T) feel this explains both our greatness as well as a high crime rate.

Noted.

So keep up the condescending attitude Elphaba -- it's still fun to debate 'ya.

Will do. You're my easiest target Fin.

Elphaba

[NDD18]

In the old world its basicly easy, the natives are the ones that always been there. The celts are the irish since the creation of man kind. But America is extremly diffrent, the natives are the indians. But Americans are from the old world, diffrent people of diffrent races all merged together.

But a lot of Americans complain of immigration even if thats what the nation is built on. Its not like Sweden and England that where allies during the crusade in the year 1100. Its a brand new Nation 200 years old, what with todays standard could be the life span of a father and son.

When did a distinction between American and immigrant come? And how can Americans on Idol tell Simon the englishman to go back home to England, and be hostile towards him for not being an American when them themselves have english blood and dont live in a English nation.

What I am saying might sound like babble but it is realy confusing and yet intressting

It's always been a problem in America. Once upon a time, almost everyone in America where English, or African, or Natives. They have always been against other people coming in such as the Irish. But over time, and a large amount of immigration later, the racism or nationality go away, because they find their place in the country even though we are hard on them in finding one. Deep down it's all about differences, and being forced to live with different people, and trying to accept that and them.

[the Ogre]

I have a problem with many of the insinuations of the current immigration debate. Mostly it smacks of reincarnated racism. Personally, I don't care legal or not, immigrants are here. My parents have found through geneological research that most of my Scotch-Irish and Jewish ancestors would be considered illegal aliens by today's standards. Is anyone going to send me home? Home to where?

There is a woman at work who was recently asked where in Mexico she came from. She said Chicago. The flustered person reasked: what about your parents? Dearborn and Chicago. And their parents? Chicago and Michigan, maybe a great-grandma from Columbus. She now lives in American Fork and her husband is from New York, but his grandparents came from Puerto Rico. Niether of them speak Spanish nor do they have Spanish given names. Nor do their three children. Does it matter? Should the discussion have even come up? It doesn't matter because it did. The problem is that this woman's presence in the US might somehow be considered questionable because she is Hispanic.

I have a Scottish friend who is here illegally, but he is never asked for his green-card or passport. The construction company he works for pays cash and his wife takes care of the taxes. He doesn't even hide that he came here on vacation and didn't return to Scotland. Most people think it is cool that he is here. So why not for Hispanics? Like I said: a type of reincarnated racism. The funny thing about it is that both major political parties sound just as racist as the other regardless of how enlightened they seem to be.

The real question should be how to close the supposedly genderless and raceless administrative/governmental policies that make coming to the US such a smart move by those who suffer from various work-ethic disablities and entitlement addictions. Solve those loop-holes (physical, government, administrative or whatever), prosecute the "natives" who perpetuate them and the discussion and problem will go away.

[Elphaba]

I have a problem with many of the insinuations of the current immigration debate. Mostly it smacks of reincarnated racism. Personally, I don't care legal or not, immigrants are here. My parents have found through geneological research that most of my Scotch-Irish and Jewish ancestors would be considered illegal aliens by today's standards. Is anyone going to send me home? Home to where?

There is a woman at work who was recently asked where in Mexico she came from. She said Chicago. The flustered person reasked: what about your parents? Dearborn and Chicago. And their parents? Chicago and Michigan, maybe a great-grandma from Columbus. She now lives in American Fork and her husband is from New York, but his grandparents came from Puerto Rico. Niether of them speak Spanish nor do they have Spanish given names. Nor do their three children. Does it matter? Should the discussion have even come up? It doesn't matter because it did. The problem is that this woman's presence in the US might somehow be considered questionable because she is Hispanic.

I have a Scottish friend who is here illegally, but he is never asked for his green-card or passport. The construction company he works for pays cash and his wife takes care of the taxes. He doesn't even hide that he came here on vacation and didn't return to Scotland. Most people think it is cool that he is here. So why not for Hispanics? Like I said: a type of reincarnated racism. The funny thing about it is that both major political parties sound just as racist as the other regardless of how enlightened they seem to be.

The real question should be how to close the supposedly genderless and raceless administrative/governmental policies that make coming to the US such a smart move by those who suffer from various work-ethic disablities and entitlement addictions. Solve those loop-holes (physical, government, administrative or whatever), prosecute the "natives" who perpetuate them and the discussion and problem will go away.

Elphaba

[CrimsonKairos]

The problem is that this woman's presence in the US might somehow be considered questionable because she is Hispanic.

Hmmm, I wonder why? Oh, wait, it's because millions of Mexican citizens cross illegally into America each year. Between a Scot and a Mexican, it's just common sense to suspect that if anyone came here illegally the Mexican did.

It's statistics dude, not racism. If we shared a border with Scotland and not Mexico maybe the situation would be reversed.

No one's saying we'll be able to kick out all the illegals. What many including me are saying is, "Let's stop the flood now. Period. Forget about the past, let's see what we can do now to stop this phenomenon of lawlessness. We can try to document illegals here already, but let's ensure no more make it over if possible."

If that's racist, give me a white hood, light my cross on fire and call me KKK.

[the Ogre]

...it's just common sense to suspect that if anyone came here illegally the Mexican did.

...If that's racist, give me a white hood, light my cross on fire and call me KKK.

I'm sorry, but man you lit that torch on your own above and other then that (and I hate wearing white, you can dress yourself just like you choose to interpret statistics) it sounds like we agree.

[CrimsonKairos]

Anyone wanna' roast marshmallows over my wicked blaze? Gwahahahahahahaha!!! B)

[the Ogre]

Anyone wanna' roast marshmallows over my wicked blaze? Gwahahahahahahaha!!! B)

ALL

Double, double toil and trouble;

Fire burn and cauldron bubble.

Third Witch

Scale of dragon, tooth of wolf,

Witches' mummy, maw and gulf

Of the ravin'd salt-sea shark,

Root of hemlock digg'd i' the dark,

Liver of blaspheming [Mormon],

Gall of goat, and slips of yew

Silver'd in the moon's eclipse,

Nose of Turk and [martyr’s] lips,

Finger of birth-strangled babe

Ditch-deliver'd by a drab,

Make the gruel thick and slab:

Add thereto a tiger's chaudron,

For the ingredients of our cauldron.