I can't get married and neither can my friends.

[Backroads]

All I can further say is make peace with no kids/sex for the time being and try to develop some platonic relationships with females.

Edit:

No, I add to that. What can you do? I'm not going to advise free - wheeling sex. I stand by my earlier statement that even a separation from a spiritual wife won't necessarily be completely in your favor. You aren't ready for marriage at this time.

Again, make peace with no kids and no sex. Be active on church. Serve with joy, both inside and outside church. Work on your career/education/hobbies. Travel. Cultivate friendships (once again, try to include women). Stay away from your negative circle of friends. Perhaps see a counselor to help you make more sense of the marriage tragedies you have witnessed.

Marriage isn't in the present cards for you. So, explore the rest of life.

Edited June 9, 2015 by Backroads

[Guest]

No Vort, you are 100% totally right.

<snip>

Just get used to it.

I'm a feminist. But even then, I do acknowledge that there's a reason Heavenly Father is all over the scriptures with Jesus Christ and the Holy Ghost and Heavenly Mother never got a single sentence. There's just an inherent difference in the way we address the males versus the females.

Does that excuse unrighteous females? No. But, it's okay if we react differently in the same manner that I don't give the same method of discipline to my oldest child as opposed to his brother. As it is, we are simply here to advice and guide... not to judge. Judgment for unrighteousness - regardless of gender - is the same under God.

[Guest MormonGator]

I'm a feminist

So am I and so is my wife. But we're more individualists.

[Guest]

So am I and so is my wife. But we're more individualists.

I'm not sure I understand what you're trying to say. Feminist and individualist are separate entities... basically, one can be a feminist and an individualist at the same time. So, I'm not sure if you're saying you're an individualist more than a feminist in the same manner that one would say something like - I'm more a vegetarian than I am a horror-movie-enthusiast... so, since I don't know how much you love horror movies I can't really tell where that falls in the comparison plane.

Edited June 9, 2015 by anatess

[Guest MormonGator]

Individualists don't sit on the same plane. Basically, one can be a feminist and an individualist in equal measure. One, technically, cannot be "more" than the other unless you're saying something like - I'm more a vegetarian than I am a horror-movie-enthusiast.

 Right, usually we individualists are the ones in the cockpit, leading others to the way.

[Guest]

Right, usually we individualists are the ones in the cockpit, leading others to the way.

How does that relate to your being a feminist?

[Guest MormonGator]

How does that relate to your being a feminist?

Here is how: 

 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Individualist_feminism

Edited June 9, 2015 by MormonGator

[Guest MormonGator]

I'm not sure I understand what you're trying to say. Feminist and individualist are separate entities... basically, one can be a feminist and an individualist at the same time. 

True, but often times feminists try to negate the power of the individual woman/man and instead only think of groups. IE-They want state control. An individualist feminist is someone who believes in the power of the individual, female or male.  

[Vort]

I'm a feminist. But even then, I do acknowledge that there's a reason Heavenly Father is all over the scriptures with Jesus Christ and the Holy Ghost and Heavenly Mother never got a single sentence. There's just an inherent difference in the way we address the males versus the females.

Does that excuse unrighteous females? No. But, it's okay if we react differently in the same manner that I don't give the same method of discipline to my oldest child as opposed to his brother. As it is, we are simply here to advice and guide... not to judge. Judgment for unrighteousness - regardless of gender - is the same under God.

 

While I think I might not disagree explicitly with what you wrote above, my point is that condemning a young man and recent Church convert because he has some attitudes and opinions that might not be healthy is not itself a good or Christlike thing to do.

 

It is unfortunate to see anyone treated wrongly, perhaps moreso when we recognize that the mistreatment is coming from ourselves. But it is particularly galling to see a man savaged wrongly in a condition where a woman would be treated more gently and even sympathized with. Men are just as human as women, just as wonderful and potentially divine, and just as valued before God -- though there are those (perhaps even on this very list) who disbelieve it.

[garryw]

I think I have the answer.  Serious.  Here's what I did after celestial companion #1 cheated on me and decided to live off alimony anyway (all 50 states are no fault so women pretty much know they can do what they please and profit by it)

 

step 1.  Only date women that are employed (harder for them to get alimony)

step 2. Only date women that dont want kids (my 2nd wife already has one, so do I).

step 3.  Get a solid prenup, get it signed and notorized by proespect celestial companion #2

step 4. Get sealed in the temple

step 5.  Build an escape plan.  If #2 repeats what #1 did to you (adulteress) and gets the prenup tossed out with the old "but your honor, I'm just a woman, I don't understand what I signed" and quits her job so she qualifies for alimony then you use the 2nd language you learned on your mission and "disappear" to that country rather than pay alimony to another cheating adulteress alimony collecting daughter of Heavenly Father.

 

So far this has worked for me.  Haven't used step 5 (yet).  Trust me if you have not paid alimony to a spouse that cheated on you and even got pregnant in the act, you have no idea what you are dealing with.  No idea.  Men have every right to defend themselves from such women and do whatever they can to stay away.  And frankly the family courts are just as much to blame.  If I were a judge no adulteress would live off alimony from her ex husband.  It's just disgusting.

Edited June 9, 2015 by garryw

[Guest MormonGator]

 

step 3.  Get a solid prenup, get it signed and notorized by proespect celestial companion #2

 

 This. Take it an memorize it. 

[David13]

Gator and Garry

You are coming up a little short here.

Your prenuptual agreement should be signed by 4 people.  You and your dearly beloved, and each attorney for each of you (his n' hers attorneys).

Your agreement must also provide for a fair and equitable settlement based on the situation at the time of a divorce.

dc

[Guest MormonGator]

Gator and Garry

You are coming up a little short here.

Your prenuptual agreement should be signed by 4 people.  You and your dearly beloved, and each attorney for each of you (his n' hers attorneys).

Your agreement must also provide for a fair and equitable settlement based on the situation at the time of a divorce.

dc

 Very true. Needless to say, I'm not an attorney so I don't know the technical details. 

 

But getting married without getting a pre-nup is like saying you are the worlds safest driver so YOU don't have to wear a seat belt. It's just not a good idea in the least. 

[Backroads]

I know a guy who managed to get his newborn out of the divorce. As in, brought the baby home from the hospital, mom only had visitation rights. She was an adultress who tried to play all sides and it didn't look good in court.

[David13]

While I think I might not disagree explicitly with what you wrote above, my point is that condemning a young man and recent Church convert because he has some attitudes and opinions that might not be healthy is not itself a good or Christlike thing to do.

 

It is unfortunate to see anyone treated wrongly, perhaps moreso when we recognize that the mistreatment is coming from ourselves. But it is particularly galling to see a man savaged wrongly in a condition where a woman would be treated more gently and even sympathized with. Men are just as human as women, just as wonderful and potentially divine, and just as valued before God -- though there are those (perhaps even on this very list) who disbelieve it.

 

Vort

I have to disagree with all that.

First, he was not condemned, he was chagrined.  Like Christ would do. 

Second, we all agree, his attitude is not healthy.

Third, he wasn't treated wrongly.  He was treated appropriately.  He was not savaged at all.  That's an exaggeration. 

Women are generally treated more gently and sympathetically than men.  Because they are more gentle and sympathetic. 

Men are supposed to be able to take it.  Christ didn't mince words with anyone.

We all value men and women.  All of us here.  Even the humorists.

The op reminds me of a whiny little boy, who cries and whines "I don't want to go to school.  I don't want to go to school".

And Mommy has to come and say, firmly, not savagely, "Get dressed!  You are going to school."

Just like Jesus would do in that circumstance.

dc

[Guest]

I hereby declare page 2 of this thread the official headquarters of

 

Edited June 10, 2015 by Eowyn

[FunkyTown]

I hereby declare page 2 of this thread the official headquarters of

 

 

Meh. It was just a few men feeling victimized and helpless because certain parts of the deal are stacked against them.

 

1) Men are far more likely to be victims of violent crime than women:

http://www.victimsweek.gc.ca/res/r512.html

 

That's bad.

 

2) Women are far more likely to be victims of sexual crime than men:

 

http://nsvrc.org/sites/default/files/publications_nsvrc_factsheet_media-packet_statistics-about-sexual-violence_0.pdf

 

That's bad.

 

3) Women are far more likely than men to leave their job to take care of kids in the middle of their highest earning potential times. This results in women suffering more from poverty.

 

That's bad/good.

 

4) Men are far more likely to lose out in divorces.

 

That's bad.

 

5) Men are far more likely to suffer workplace fatalities than women are. Overwhelmingly, more than 13 times as likely.

 

http://amptoons.com/blog/2007/03/05/workplace-deaths-are-overwhelmingly-male/

 

That's bad.

 

6) Women only earn about 66% of what a man earns.

 

That's bad.

 

There are so many statistics thrown about without context and meaning to them. We're creating a culture of entitlement and outrage. You can either live your life in fear or not. You can live your life in rage over barely comprehended statistics or not.

 

I choose not.

Edited June 10, 2015 by FunkyTown

[Guest MormonGator]

I hereby declare page 2 of this thread the official headquarters of

 

 So pointing out injustice in the legal system is "hating women"? Wow, the majority of my friends are female. Not sure about that in the least. 

 

Obviously when you deal with gender, both male and female want to circle the wagons. That's sad, because that's how injustice starts. 

Edited June 10, 2015 by MormonGator

[Guest]

I was talking more about the conditions under which men agree to remarry. I find it appalling. Be careful who you marry, yes, but treating her as a criminal from the engagement on isn't exactly how we're taught to revere marriage and each other in Ephesians, is it?

[Guest MormonGator]

I was talking more about the conditions under which men agree to remarry. I find it appalling. Be careful who you marry, yes, but treating her as a criminal from the engagement on isn't exactly how we're taught to revere marriage and each other in Ephesians, is it?

 I agree no one should be treated like a criminal. Male or female though. 

[NightSG]

6) Women only earn about 66% of what a man earns.

 

That's bad.

 

I really despise that statistic; it disregards the difference in attitudes.  How often do you see a man make a career of waiting tables or mopping floors?  Most men in those positions are working their way through school or building capital for some other venture.  Many of the women have no future goal.  The ones who do tend to end up making just as much as the men, if not more.

[Guest MormonGator]

I really despise that statistic; it disregards the difference in attitudes.  How often do you see a man make a career of waiting tables or mopping floors?  Most men in those positions are working their way through school or building capital for some other venture.  Many of the women have no future goal.  The ones who do tend to end up making just as much as the men, if not more.

 Consider this the biggest virtual high five I have ever given in my life. 

 

Look everyone, it's because men and women generally do different work. Yes, women should be allowed to do just what a man does. But many don't choose to work on oil rigs (well paying) and other traditionally masculine jobs. 

[NightSG]

Marry the kind of girl who won't cheat on you. Problem solved.

 

I can't even find one who won't cancel the first date if something else looks like more fun.

 

Having a hard enough time finding one who won't get drunk during Conference.

[Guest MormonGator]

I can't even find one who won't cancel the first date if something else looks like more fun.

 

Having a hard enough time finding one who won't get drunk during Conference.

 Than look harder. There are so, so many women out there who are lovely, amazing and totally fun to be around and still live the gospel standards. 

 

I mean, if I can find a woman that spends more than ten minutes with me, so can anyone. 

[Leah]

I really despise that statistic; it disregards the difference in attitudes.  How often do you see a man make a career of waiting tables or mopping floors?  Most men in those positions are working their way through school or building capital for some other venture.  Many of the women have no future goal.  The ones who do tend to end up making just as much as the men, if not more.

 

Are you really this misinformed or do you just not let reality get in the way of your obvious negative view of women?