Cops Crash Pool Party

[yjacket]

Only three types of people aggressively run toward a cop who's in the process of making an arrest.  He's clearly neither backup nor a lawyer, so that leaves thug.

Like I said, you have a black or white mindset and are not willing to discuss. You have made up your mind and that's it, no amount of discussion will ever convince you otherwise. Lol . . .what if some cop is arresting a husband and the woman comes running out at the cop . . . I guess she's a thug right, instead of an over-emotional woman?  Life isn't so black and white like you want to portray it.

 

He was not running towards the cop (if he was I've never seen someone run a curve to go straight). He ran around to get better look . . . a fight starts, person A is beating person B and observer A says, oh snap let me see what is happening runs to get a better look and he slipped (a fact you are continually and conveniently overlooking b/c it doesn't fit your narrative).

 

The kid was being stupid, but to call him a thug? That only fits if one is trying to tell (and convince others of) a particular narrative.

 

If he was actually going to assault and hit the cop, there are a lot better ways to do it than the way it happened.  I don't know like actually raising a fist, or if, as you claim, a boxer can land so many punches before someone shoots, he clearly should have jumped on the cop, rather than backing up because the cop wouldn't have known what hit him. 

Edited June 10, 2015 by yjacket

[Leah]

I have a very specific (most would agree very legitimate) reason to hate the police with every fiber of my being.  Some of the scars will probably never heal.

 

BUT....I still think that for the most part, I think people like our own Mirkwood are a more accurate reflection of people in law enforcement than are the few legitimate bad cops (and you will find similar bad apples in any/all professions), or the picture that our media and johnny-wanna-be-famous-with-his-cell-phone-video want to paint.

 

There are too many people who think it's baloney, but the truth is that every day that a cop puts on his/her uniform to start his shift, they know there is a chance it may be their last one.  How many of us go to work risking our lives every single day?  How many of us go to work wondering if today is the day that I get shot at?

 

Sure, some of you will jump on here with statistics pulled from somewhere of how "not that many" cops actually get shot at/shot.  You'll say it's not "that" risky of a job.  But the fact remains that the risk is there every single day. 

 

And I would daresay given the current mentality of our society, that it will simply get worse.  Far worse.  Just look at this video for instance.  You have teenagers who have NO issue with trespassing, assault, vandalism....and even when confronted by police officers they continue to think they are above it all.  Rules don't apply to them.  The law doesn't apply to them.  And they are furthered rewarded for their behavior by fame in the media and being treated as though they are the victims...not the people whose property they trespassed, nor the people they assaulted.

 

This incident was part of a known problem in the area.  Rogue parties instigated by one person who has a thirst to make a buck and a name and to incite chaos.

 

Apparently, it's not enough that the cop never fired a shot. He was supposed to have never drawn his gun.  There is all this holier-than-thou speculation that the guy reaching for his waistband wasn't actually a threat, the cop should have waited...  Waited for what?  Until after a gun was drawn and fired?  What would the reaction have been if he had hesitated (which could happen more and more these days because cops know there are people out there who think no shooting is ever justified, no matter the circumstances) and the guy did pull a gun and start shooting and people other than the cop had been shot?  I mean, you all are doing what-ifs and your crystal balls seem to know exactly everyone's mindset is from a few seconds of video, so why can't this possibility be considered?

 

There was a large, out-of-control situation.  Clearly, there were a number of people there presenting a real and present danger.  You can't do some sort of psychiatric intake on each individual before you decide who is involved and who is an innocent bystander. 

 

You're outnumbered.  People are in danger. Someone has already been assaulted.  You work quickly to stop the threat.  You get everyone under control first, whether it means handcuffs or face-down on the ground.  When the immediate threat has been neutralized, THEN you can sort out who's who and what's what and send the innocent on their way.  And in situations like this, those are usually the ones who already left per the police instructions.  Not the ones who stayed and aggressed against the police.

 

And it is not because the cops are concerned about their own safety, they are there because they are trying to protect you and me.

 

I am sure this incident is not going to stop the instigator of this "party".  It was probably an ego boost.  Look at me!  I'm famous!  We fought the evil police and we won!

 

Thanks to the you-poor-babies reaction from the media and society, they are going to feel invincible and it's going to fuel their already existing mind-set of being able to do whatever they want with no consequences to themselves.  How many more instances of trespassing and intimidation and assault are they going to perpetuate this summer?  How would you feel knowing that you can be invaded and assaulted by a large group of teenagers and when you try to defend yourself by calling in the police, all of the sympathy and support goes to the perpetrators instead of the victims?

 

It seems there are an awful lot of people who think they know far better how this situation (and other situations) should have been handled by the police, even with no training and no experience in anything like this. If that is the case, why aren't you in law enforcement?  Put your money where your mouth is and prove that you have all the answers.

[yjacket]

It seems there are an awful lot of people who think they know far better how this situation (and other situations) should have been handled by the police, even with no training and no experience in anything like this. If that is the case, why aren't you in law enforcement?  Put your money where your mouth is and prove that you have all the answers.

 

This is utter junk; and a common defense for those who have lost an argument.  When you can't beat 'em with logic, use rhetoric.

 

One does not need to be a law officer, just like one doesn't need to be a doctor, just like one doesn't need to be a lawyer, nor a politician to have a well-thought out position.

 

Just because one does not like that position is no reason to throw around the common refrain of  "he puts his life on the line every day" utter junk, therefore anyone who criticizes an action or disagrees with that piece of psychological rhetoric is a "cop-hater".

 

Put your money where your mouth is blah, blah, blah.

 

Let's see I'm not in law enforcement, b/c I can make a heck of a lot more money in other fields, I have no desire to be "mr. macho" and kick the crap out of anyone who crosses me.

 

And yes, I do think drawing a gun is a serious thing . . . if I draw a gun on someone that is called assualt with a deadly weapon and is a felony.

http://www.legalmatch.com/law-library/article/assault-with-a-deadly-weapon.html

 

If I were in the exact same situation and had a conceal permit (or even open carry) and pulled my gun on this guy like the cop did, I would be charged with a felony and possibly convicted (probably rightfully so).  But hey cops are super-human, not only that but they are Heroes and are thus untouchable and they are above the law, right?

 

I'm not asking for cops to die, only to recognize that they are a) not above the law and b) they do have the supreme power to ultimately kill someone (and I agree that they should have that power). So when they decide that they need enforce the law through possible deadly force, they should be held to a much higher standard than you or I.

 

But hey I get it, I'm the cop-basher . . .simply because I don't hero worship.

 

And let's make sure we focus all our energy on a very small incident instead of ignoring the cops and a SWAT team blowing to bits a legal law-abiding citizen's home.  But to many people he had it coming, right, b/c how dare he rent his house to a drug-dealer, he should have known, right?

Edited June 10, 2015 by yjacket

[yjacket]

And I would daresay given the current mentality of our society, that it will simply get worse.  Far worse.

 

On this I completely agree, and it won't just be people's disregard for property rights, it will be the law enforcers disregard for human liberty and life. Instead of seeing Joe Blow as a citizen whom he is to protect, he sees Joe Blow as a possible threat, where everything is perceived through a lens of "guilty until proven innocent", shoot first ask questions later. Citizens will perceive their neighbor through the same lens, anything that is in any way different becomes cause for alarm, no trust among neighbors. See something say something. 

 

Which is insane, because when one looks at actual life, the amount of crime and actual incidents of violence are at all time lows.  

 

But it is fear that will drive and motivate people; fear of being shot, fear of being robbed, fear of being killed in a terrorist incident; when the odds are so incredibly low.

 

And fear is the anti-thesis of the Spirit, it is when as the scriptures say the love of man will wax cold.

 

I am always very aware that "it" can happen here, with "it" being any sort of tyrannical government or complete social chaos.

Edited June 10, 2015 by yjacket

[bytor2112]

The officer could have chosen better language to be sure....everything else including drawing his weapon briefly was appropriate given the situation. 

 

If we all lived in Mayberry then all officers could either not wear a gun or keep the bullet in the front pocket. That didn't look like Mayberry to me....

Edited June 10, 2015 by bytor2112

[carlimac]

This is an interesting quote from a McKinney newspaper that  illustrates a mindset that is exactly opposite from what should happen, Yipes.  No wonder:

 

(a 13 yr old girl at the party) "The party was mainly black kids,” she said. “We all knew each other.”  "Jahda said tensions escalated when uninvited teenagers began jumping the fence to get into the party and police responded.

 

(then from her father)  Her father, Jahi Bakari, said he understood why some of the partygoers reacted to the police with alarm. Bakari said he tells his children to run from the police if they haven’t done anything wrong, because of concerns about police brutality.  “The kids saw four police cars, and they started running,” he said. “Being a black youth today in this climate, after Ferguson and Baltimore, I would’ve done the same — I tell them, ‘You see the cops, you go.’ There’s nothing but bad things that can possibly happen. This is a case of truth right here.”

[mirkwood]

Let's see I'm not in law enforcement, b/c I can make a heck of a lot more money in other fields, I have no desire to be "mr. macho" and kick the crap out of anyone who crosses me.

 

Hmmm...kind of shows your mentality towards the police there doesn't it.  You have a deeply flawed perception and it has shown in your posts repeatedly.

[carlimac]

On the other hand, here is a lady who gets it!

 

http://www.theblaze.com/stories/2015/06/10/mom-has-a-message-in-response-to-mckinney-fury-that-youre-not-hearing-many-places-the-white-kids-werent-running-the-black-kids-were/

[yjacket]

Hmmm...kind of shows your mentality towards the police there doesn't it.  You have a deeply flawed perception and it has shown in your posts repeatedly.

My apologies mirkwood; I was hyperbolic with this sentence (I always like to use a good hyperbole every now and then and I might have insulted you with the make more money comment-my apology). There are a lot of really good cops out there, who honestly do want to be community servants. Let me rephrase my comment.

 

The vast majority of laws in this country are completely pointless and do nothing to protect life, liberty, and property. As an officer one is called to enforce the laws.  I have no desire in enforcing laws that I believe violate an individual's life, liberty and property and in general cause pain and heartache for individuals.

 

A perfect example, drugs-I have no desire to bust into someone's house throw a flash-bang in to get someone doing drugs. Is drugs bad, absolutely, is it something that someone should be deprived of life, liberty, and property for, NO.

 

I have no desire to track down someone who does drugs and then get into a situation that could possibly devolve into me ensuring through physical violence that they comply with me, simply because I'm enforcing a bad law.

 

As for throwing insults around; you have a deeply flawed perception of your fellow man and appropriate laws of when it is morally just to deprive someone of their life, liberty and property.

 

And yeah, I've met some really good cops, but I've found in general oh what is the scripture:

"We have learned by sad experience that it is the nature and disposition of almost all men, as soon as they get a little authority, as they suppose, they will immediately begin to exercise unrighteous dominion"

 

But I guess cops are except from the above statement.

 

I don't like to, nor do I want to place myself in a position of authority above other men who are the same as me.

Edited June 11, 2015 by yjacket

[unixknight]

I look to cops to, at least reactively (not a fan of pre-emptive police intervention) quell disturbances and get the bad guys off the streets by any means necessary. That's very often going to entail the use of force,which s never pleasant to behold and can easily get out-of-hand.

 

Just how literally do you mean "by any means necessary?"

[Backroads]

I won't get into whether or not cops should always be calming down the public or always going to drill seargent mode or somewhere inbetween the two but as a generic chime-in, I'd say it's your own darn responsibility to calm yourself down, be you the cop, the perpetrator, or the guy in the wrong place at the wrong time. In that regard I agree with NeuroTypical: do whatever you can to make peace with the situation unless the situation really indeed calls for a different reaction.

[Just_A_Guy]

Just how literally do you mean "by any means necessary?"

Not terribly--I've already acknowledged that I think use of force can get out of hand, and that I'm not a fan of pre-emptive action.  But I think as a general guideline it's more important to clear a disturbance quickly than it is important to clear a disturbance in such a way that no one walks away with a superficial bump or hurt feelings.

 

If a cop, in the midst of such a disturbance, tells me to get down on the ground, I fully expect that within thirty seconds I will be down on the ground--whether of my own volition or not.

[EarlJibbs]

I have not had many instances where a police officer doesn't come in with some type of attitude. But I can say that by the end of the discussion or issue, the LEO has been just fine to deal with. Just like with everyone, you need to teach your children respect and how to deal with those that should have it. The time to put your foot down is in court. Not in the chaos of the moment, whether you are right or wrong. It is easy to say that the police should already be calm, but honestly, how many jobs are there where any moment you could be putting your life in danger? And that danger is not something, but someone? I am strongly against police brutality, I am equally against people to turn what could be a misunderstanding into an escalating situation simply because they do not comply. 

 

Example 1: Driving with my kids a man ran a red light while doing a left hand turn. Traffic was already going through the light. The guy that rant the light was on the shoulder next to me and started to come over into my lane. He forced me into the median, I was already going faster than him so I sped up a little more and entered my lane again. That man then passed me in the median. I saw the police lights and thought for sure that guy was going to get a ticket. But he actually pulled me over. He walked to my window very angry and asked what the heck did I think I was doing passing that guy in the median. I stayed calm and explained the situation and he calmed down and said he didn't see any of that. He let me go and was kind. If I would have ran my mouth it could have been very different. 

 

Example 2: In high school I was at a party on private land. We had a fire going in the field and there were some kids doing donuts in their cars. Really, it was good clean fun on acres of private land. It was dark. The next thing you know, there are about 10 flashlights coming out of the trees towards us. I thought it was some friends playing a joke or something. Nope, a bunch of cops come through the party looking for booze or drugs. It was pretty intense. We all listened to what they were saying and followed orders. Once they determined that nothing illegal was going on, they lightened up and stayed a while chatting with us all. If we all would have "rabbited" and started running, it would have ended very differently. 

 

Example 3: I picked my brother up to come out to my house to hang out. I had my children in my car. It had new paper plates in my window which was tinted, but not too dark you couldn't see it. It was an older car and admittedly, my brother didn't live in the best area. I get pulled over because the LEO couldn't see my plate in the window. But he comes to the window and yells at my brother and I to place our hands on the dash/steering wheel. We calmly comply. He checks us out and lets us go. Was he a jerk? Sure he was. But I understand that I am not the only type of person they encounter. 

[Traveler]

I would like to make something clear about my personal stand on things.  Back in the late 60's I was in California with some friends scuba diving.  We ended up right in the middle of an event that made the national news.  We saw the whole event unfold from start to finish.  Later we saw the same event on TV national news (all 3 channels - back then).  The TV coverage had lots of video.  The coverage was about a race riot - and I was there and saw that there was not a race riot.  About 20 individuals got beat up a bit and two individuals ended up being taken to a hospital.

 

The news coverage video was cut to make the event look as thought hundreds had rioted (when the reality was that a stolen purse was forcefully taken back and the gang the stole the purse fought back and ended up arrested when the police came.   There never was more than maybe a dozen individuals at any one time physically encountering each other.  But the coverage and video made it look like hundreds were fighting and that the police had taken the "white" side in a race riot.

 

Some may think that just because there is a video that we can believe the video.  I do not think so.  It is possible to edit a sporting event and make very good teams look bad and very bad teams look good.  A video can be cut to make a guilty person look innocent and vice versa. 

 

I am not saying that there are no bad cops any more than I am saying that any particular incident is a set up.  What I am saying is that despite all that is being shown - I do not think for a second that I can formulate an opinion about what happened and who was the cause and who was trying to solve the problem.  But it does seem to me that certain elements are causing problems and the police are trying to protect the peace and are getting blamed as thought they are the cause.

[Blackmarch]

Watch the video before you comment. You'll need to search it but it's easily found as it's viral.

So, the issue is with the one cop that not only forcibly manhandles a 14-year old girl but pulls a gun out of frustration to intimidate a group of teenagers. The cop is on leave as of now while things get sorted.

Thoughts?

i've seen way to many OMG evil cop videos only to find out later how what was being shown was being manipulated. I'm not going to make any judgement calls.

So many claims look this guy was killed when he wasn't, or was being abused when it comes out later he was reaching for a gun., etc and etc.

I recall one cop recount how a 12 year old girl dislocated his knee to the point wher ha dto tak at least 3 months of leave for surgery and therapy.

[yjacket]

lds.net needs a meeting like the following:

http://www.myfoxatlanta.com/story/29310718/groups-with-opposing-views-protest-following-mckinney-pool-incident

 

Despite the anger at some moments during the protest, FOX 4 caught a wonderful moment.

A man protesting police brutality and a man rallying in support of police met in the middle and talked about their differences. Then, they prayed, held hands and even hugged. 

They hope their understanding can inspire others.  

“They want to make it a black and white thing,” said one of the men, Lashadion Anthony. “It's not a black and white thing. It's a community versus the police that are abusing their power. We're not saying that all police are racists and all police are bad, but there are certain police that are abusing their power.”

“It means that we can work together,” said the other man, Scott Harmaring. “It means there's a chance that we can fix some of the problems in our society today if we'd all just learn to do what we just did and work together and pray together, there's a chance…the policeman that created the problem is gone, but that doesn't make our whole police department racist.”

 

 

[unixknight]

Great post, yjacket.  Thanks.  

 

Labels like "cop haters" and "copsuckers" (As in sucking up) are not helpful in these discussions because once you pigeonhole someone like that you cease to listen to what they have to say... and how can people ever come together, like in yjacket's post, if they aren't listening to each other?