Do some LDS meditate?


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  It involved emphasis on breathing techniques, and quieting the mind.  The sense I had, was to empty it, and come across insights that are buried "within."

 

 

 

 

I think Mormons use the word "ponder" when doing something like this. Pondering isn't always used to refer exclusively to thinking on scriptures or doctrine or something similar. I think pondering/meditation can be to empty our thoughts/mind to allow the Spirit the quiet to whisper to us.

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I had in mind an experience I had while a volunteer at a federal prison hospital in Missouri.  An inmate meditation leader (who has long since finished his time, and is now serving with Prison Dharma Network) showed me a rudimentary lesson in meditation.  So, it was Buddhist in practics, probably Zen.  However, he made no mention of Buddhism or any school of practice, in showing me what to do.  It involved emphasis on breathing techniques, and quieting the mind.  The sense I had, was to empty it, and come across insights that are buried "within."

 

There are Christians who practice Zen, and insist it is mental exercise, not religion.  Most mainline denominations probably have no problem with this.  Some Evangelicals, and all Fundamentalists would oppose it.  From what I've read thus far, most here would be okay with it--though my thought that finding an area where the veil may be thinner, or catching a glimpse of future Exaltation, seem to have little to do with it.

 

 

They say buried "within", and I think "from the Holy Ghost, they just don't recognize it as such."   :)

 

Your last line...yes I agree. That thought of making the veil thinner or catching a glimpse of future Exaltation has not been my goal.  I'd been mediating for some time before I even knew people believed in that.  For example, Jon Kabat Zinn talks about focusing on the breathing, and cleaning the mind...he uses it a lot to help people manage chronic pain.    

Edited by LiterateParakeet
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Hi pc,

It dawned on me today that meditation might be more compatible with LDS spirituality than with traditional Christian practice.  Oh, of course we meditate on the word of God.  However, I'm thinking of the kind where the practioner quiets herself, and searches within.  My speculation is that one who is LDS may seek that place where the veil between mortality and premortality is thinner.  Likewise, she make seek glimpses into future exaltation.

 

Am I way off here, or is meditation, and similar practices, something that attracts some LDS?

I frequently ponder some of the things I read, and some of the questions people ask of me.

 

Also, while the sacrament is being passed each Sunday, like most members of the church, I ponder on the sacrifice Christ made for us, and on the things I might be able to do to become a better disciple.

 

But I don't sit and try to empty my mind, as you describe it. Instead, I usually have something very specific I'm sincerely interested in learning more about, and the pondering is almost always in the form of a query or request.

 

https://www.lds.org/scriptures/nt/matt/7.7-11?lang=eng#6

https://www.lds.org/scriptures/nt/james/1.5?lang=eng#4

Edited by hagoth
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Interesting.  Would you then say that Fundamentalist difficulty with this practice is:

A)  The Zen/Buddhist origin of the practice making it unclean somehow?

B)  Thinking, that by searching within, a person is to find something there (within themselves) which is bad?

C)  Thinking, that by searching within, a person were to tap into something outside of themselves which is bad?

D)  Something else that hasn't occurred to me?

 

Practicing something that comes directly from another religion--especially without a specific looking toward God--would seem very bad, yes.  Also, we do not trust ourselves, for the human heart is deceitful, and we are prone to sin.  This is why some very conservative Christians remain skeptical of psychology.  The idea that we can find the answers within ourselves is considered very dangerous.  Finally, seeking spiritual insight without directly praying to God, but rather by relying on sensations that might come while doing "New age mysticism" is seen almost as sorcery.  Keep in mind, I'm explaining, not endorsing, these views.  On the other hand, "emptying" my mind does strike me as spiritually dangerous.

Edited by prisonchaplain
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Practicing something that comes directly from another religion--especially without a specific looking toward God--would seem very bad, yes.  Also, we do not trust ourselves, for the human heart is deceitful, and we are prone to sin.  This is why some very conservative Christians remain skeptical of psychology.  The idea that we can find the answers within ourselves is considered very dangerous.  Finally, seeking spiritual insight without directly praying to God, but rather by relying on sensations that might come while doing "New age mysticism" is seen almost as sorcery.  Keep in mind, I'm explaining, not endorsing, these views.  On the other hand, "emptying" my mind does strike me as spiritually dangerous.

 

Thank you for the explanation PC.  It is good to see different perspectives.  

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Great topic, thanks for asking PC!

 

At least to me, meditating is not so much about emptying the mind of absolutely everything as it is about emptying the mind of all things worldly or temporal. So I don't "find anything within" per se, I just try to make room for whatever God wants to put there. My personal prayers are more meaningful and full of gratitude if I take a couple moments before the prayer to meditate and dump the unimportant worries I would have prayed about otherwise. When I don't do this, I find that I tend to spend lots of time praying for things that don't really matter. ;)  Meditating with a focus on a scripture or spiritual principle (aka pondering) is fantastic also.

 

I agree that it could potentially be dangerous if done with the wrong intentions. Unusual spiritual experiences happen, but it's on the Lord's timetable and in His way - all we can do is always be spiritually ready for it. If meditation, or anything else, is used to try to force an experience outside the veil or anything like that, there's room for trouble. My opinion.

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Practicing something that comes directly from another religion--especially without a specific looking toward God--would seem very bad, yes.  Also, we do not trust ourselves, for the human heart is deceitful, and we are prone to sin.  This is why some very conservative Christians remain skeptical of psychology.  The idea that we can find the answers within ourselves is considered very dangerous.  Finally, seeking spiritual insight without directly praying to God, but rather by relying on sensations that might come while doing "New age mysticism" is seen almost as sorcery.  Keep in mind, I'm explaining, not endorsing, these views.  On the other hand, "emptying" my mind does strike me as spiritually dangerous.

Practicing something that comes directly from another religion--especially without a specific looking toward God--would seem very bad, yes.  Also, we do not trust ourselves, for the human heart is deceitful, and we are prone to sin.  This is why some very conservative Christians remain skeptical of psychology.  The idea that we can find the answers within ourselves is considered very dangerous.  Finally, seeking spiritual insight without directly praying to God, but rather by relying on sensations that might come while doing "New age mysticism" is seen almost as sorcery.  Keep in mind, I'm explaining, not endorsing, these views.  On the other hand, "emptying" my mind does strike me as spiritually dangerous.

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Practicing something that comes directly from another religion--especially without a specific looking toward God--would seem very bad, yes.  Also, we do not trust ourselves, for the human heart is deceitful, and we are prone to sin.  This is why some very conservative Christians remain skeptical of psychology.  The idea that we can find the answers within ourselves is considered very dangerous.  Finally, seeking spiritual insight without directly praying to God, but rather by relying on sensations that might come while doing "New age mysticism" is seen almost as sorcery.  Keep in mind, I'm explaining, not endorsing, these views.  On the other hand, "emptying" my mind does strike me as spiritually dangerous.

This response seems somewhat contrary to your core values so often expressed on this forum. First I have been most impressed with your willingness to listen to basic values held dear by devout believers that have found spiritual connection that transcends the physical. Even when it is not a principal of your particular faith even though it is a principal mentioned and taught in bible scriptures.

The second concern is the issue of personalizing our spiritual connection with G-d. Finding answers from within (which is the only way G-d communities spiritually with the heart and soul of men) I find to be a great disappointment in the teaching of evangelicals. The scriptural reference to ones heart is a direct reference to introspection to our spiritual selves. I don't believe some one is being honest with themselves and others if they claim to have a personal relationship with G-d and at the same time fear what is inside their own heart.

If there is a way to transcend our physical condition and commune with G-d without meditation that opens up our hearts and minds to that which is spiritual I would be skeptical yet willing to at least consider.

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My mortal body is of the earth; fleshy, carnal, sensual, and an enemy to God. My spirit is from God. Clean, pure, and at one with God.

 

John 14

10 Believest thou not that I am in the aFather, and the Father in me? the words that I speak unto you I speak not of myself: but the Father that dwelleth in me, he doeth the works. 11 Believe me that I am ain the bFather, and the Father in me: or else believe me for the very works’ sake.

 

 20 At that day ye shall know that I am in my Father, and ye in me, and I in you.

 

D&C 50

43 And the Father and I are one. I am in the Father and the Father in me; and inasmuch as ye have received me, ye are in me and I in you.

 

When I meditate I am trying to empty my mind of carnal thoughts so that I can hear the Spirit of God that is within me. Inside each of us is light and goodness, no matter how small. This spirit is at one with God but it can be overpowered by our sins, our weaknesses inherent in our mortal bodies.

 

-Finrock

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Just like Fasting commands the body to respond to the spirit, so Meditation commands the mind to follow our spirit. 

 

We are told to control our thoughts and to me a habit of setting small periods of time to momentarily quiet the constant chatter in our heads strengthens our ability to listen to and recognize the still small voice of the spirit and keep our thoughts in control so we don't drown it out or drive it away with unholy thoughts. I also think this type of meditation strengthens our focus and ability to channel our thoughts.

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Just like Fasting commands the body to respond to the spirit, so Meditation commands the mind to follow our spirit. 

 

I love this!  I will be using this in the future to explain one of the reasons I meditate.

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Practicing something that comes directly from another religion--especially without a specific looking toward God--would seem very bad, yes.  Also, we do not trust ourselves, for the human heart is deceitful, and we are prone to sin.  This is why some very conservative Christians remain skeptical of psychology.  The idea that we can find the answers within ourselves is considered very dangerous.  Finally, seeking spiritual insight without directly praying to God, but rather by relying on sensations that might come while doing "New age mysticism" is seen almost as sorcery.  Keep in mind, I'm explaining, not endorsing, these views.  On the other hand, "emptying" my mind does strike me as spiritually dangerous.

 

Interesting explanation, PC. Thanks for elucidating. I find myself in disagreement with almost every point, though not necessarily with you, given that you've indicated you are explaining these views and not endorsing them.

 

That practitioners of Eastern religions meditate seems to me to be of no import whatsoever. Islamic worship includes praying to God, but that fact will not stop me from praying to God, even if I disbelieve Islam. If Catholics eat a cracker and drink wine for a religious sacrament and I'm not Catholic, I am not therefore going to refuse to eat crackers and drink wine. I might refuse to for other reasons -- for example, maybe I'm a gluten-intolerant recovering alcoholic -- but the bare fact that Catholics do it won't stop me from doing it, too. Similarly, if meditation is a beneficial practice, the fact that Hindus or Buddhists practice it is of no relevance, at least to my way of thinking.

 

As for psychology, I also distrust it, but not because the human heart is deceitful. I distrust it because it claims to be a science but then acts in a highly unscientific, politically driven manner. It is "the wisdom of men" masquerading as scientifically established principle. Many physicists of my acquaintance take a dim view of psychology, which they regard as pseudoscience, in their estimation not more than one or two notches above creationism.

 

Seeking spiritual insight without prayer: If you put it in those terms, I agree with you. But why should meditation exclude prayer? Is that a necessary condition to meditate? I don't think so. I think it's a great idea to quiet the roar of the world in our minds, which I gather is what "emptying one's mind" is all about.

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As previously posted one purpose of meditation is to become aware.  I have often wondered and pondered (meditated) the origin of my own thoughts.  Many of this forum may find this effort somewhat humorous because of my stand on empirical evidence.  However, I have been unable to validate or to demonstrate that I generate my own thoughts.  I am inclined to speculate that most of the thoughts that I encounter are not really unique or mine only.  I speculate that the vast majority of thoughts that I have; really come from outside of me.  That I cannot have a righteous thought without the assistance of the Holy Ghost and that I cannot have a "tempting" thought without the assistance of a unclean spirit.

 

I also find that the majority of thoughts that seem to come from outside of me must be filtered and trashed because they are on no value - especially in the eternal scheme of things.  Some are most irrational and surprising evil.  It is these evil thought that cause me to wonder and explorer what may be triggering them.  The thought I have come to is that such thought do not originate from me and that my agency is not determined by generating thoughts but by filtering those thought that I would believe and make my own.  I think that our enticements toward good or evil do not have origin within us but rather that we choose which we would follow and make our own.  But the thoughts we entertain are only a beginning.

 

I believe, because of my experience, that the first discipline of a disciple of Christ is the discipline of our thoughts that come to us from whatever source and I am not sure how anyone can hope to master the discipline of thoughts (separating the divine thought from very cleaver temptations) without serious meditation.  I have discovered that going to church and reading scriptures is helpful but my observations is that it is not enough. 

 

BTW - I have pondered and meditated on what is enough and the best I have come up with is somewhat in the scripture - that we are helped and saved - after all we can do.  t I tried to put this idea in another thread (about when G-d intervenes) - but it would appear that I may be unique in this belief.

Edited by Traveler
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That makes sense. No, I don't view mediation as having anything to do with New Age, as the meditation predates New Age by several millennium. 

 

For me, meditation is stepping away from all the noise of the world (both external and internal), into a peaceful quiet communion with God.  This is not only good, but essential because--

 

 

11 And he said, Go forth, and stand upon the mount before the Lord. And, behold, the Lord passed by, and a great and strong wind rent the mountains, and brake in pieces the rocks before the Lordbut the Lord was not in the wind: and after the wind an earthquake; but the Lordwas not in the earthquake:

 12 And after the earthquake a fire; but the Lord was not in the fire: and after the fire a astill small bvoice.  (1 Kings 19)

 

 

I hesitate to say that the LDS inclination for mediation is a result of preexistence doctrine.  I much more attribute it to the LDS stressing that the Holy Spirit is a still small voice (see above scripture) and how God brings peace.  I could possibly agree that the LDS more optimistic view of the nature of man (God's in embreyo) could be a minor factor (we're trying to cultivate God within ourselves).

As to the 'still small voice' I found this (from Dallas Theological Sem)interesting: (it's lengthy; if you're impatient, the discussion of the text starts at about the 30 minute mark).

Edited by lonetree
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This response seems somewhat contrary to your core values so often expressed on this forum. First I have been most impressed with your willingness to listen to basic values held dear by devout believers that have found spiritual connection that transcends the physical. Even when it is not a principal of your particular faith even though it is a principal mentioned and taught in bible scriptures.

 

Prisonchaplain:  It's one thing to engage those of other faiths, God-seekers all, and quite another to embrace practices and rituals they perform.  On the other hand, I would certainly encourage the committed non-Christian meditator to listen for the voice of God the next time s/he meditates.  God will speak to those who seek him. 

The second concern is the issue of personalizing our spiritual connection with G-d. Finding answers from within (which is the only way G-d communities spiritually with the heart and soul of men) I find to be a great disappointment in the teaching of evangelicals. The scriptural reference to ones heart is a direct reference to introspection to our spiritual selves. I don't believe some one is being honest with themselves and others if they claim to have a personal relationship with G-d and at the same time fear what is inside their own heart.

If there is a way to transcend our physical condition and commune with G-d without meditation that opens up our hearts and minds to that which is spiritual I would be skeptical yet willing to at least consider.

 

Prisonchaplain:  Meditation is one of the spiritual disciplines.  Richard Foster has a chapter on the practice in his Celebration of Discipline book.  He also edited a fascinating book on some very in-depth devotional writings that came mostly from the monks and nuns who meditated extensively.

 

What we struggle with is the kind of meditation that calls for emptying the mind, and just awaiting whatever feelings, ideas, or sensations that may come.  We could appear to be doing very near to the same thing, but would be calling on wisdom and direction from the Holy Spirit.  We might also meditate on a particular scripture.

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I think I'll leave this here... it might shed some light. :cool:

 

"I think we pay too little attention to the value of meditation, a principle of devotion. In our worship there are two elements: One is spiritual communion arising from our own meditation; the other, instruction from others, particularly from those who have authority to guide and instruct us. Of the two, the more profitable introspectively is the meditation. Meditation is the language of the soul. It is defined as “a form of private devotion, or spiritual exercise, consisting in deep, continued reflection on some religious theme.” Meditation is a form of prayer. We can say prayers without having any spiritual response. We can say prayers as the unrighteous king in Hamlet who said: “My words fly up, my thoughts remain below: Words without thoughts never to heaven go.”  -- President McKay, 1967

 

Source >> http://scriptures.byu.edu/gettalk.php?ID=1550

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So, yes, I've been keeping up on this thread and don't have much to add but the chime-in of "Why, yes, I am LDS and do meditate."

 

I do the quiet-my-mind bit as well as some narrated meditations. I have no problem with it.

 

I had an institute teacher who is a wonderful LDS member and has been practicing forms of Buddhist meditation for decades. He says the only time he ever stopped was on his mission when his companion got weirded out.

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Here's a talk by David O. McKay (former prophet) regarding meditation:

 

https://www.lds.org/manual/teachings-david-o-mckay/chapter-4?lang=eng

 

Hahaha, sorry Pam! I just noticed this.. its the same thing I just posted, except you posted the lesson format, and I linked to the actual talk. Great Minds I guess. :D

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Here's a talk by David O. McKay (former prophet) regarding meditation:

 

https://www.lds.org/manual/teachings-david-o-mckay/chapter-4?lang=eng

 

Hahaha, sorry Pam! I just noticed this.. its the same thing I just posted, except you posted the lesson format, and I linked to the actual talk. Great Minds I guess. :D

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I had a companion on my mission who had trouble focusing (girlfriend problems back home) so I taught him how to meditate. Just basic breathing techniques, but it helped a lot.

 

I have a Buddhist background. It's disappointing how much truth is in Buddhism that Latter-day Saints fail (or refuse) to recognize. The value of meditation is one of these truths.

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This response seems somewhat contrary to your core values so often expressed on this forum. First I have been most impressed with your willingness to listen to basic values held dear by devout believers that have found spiritual connection that transcends the physical. Even when it is not a principal of your particular faith even though it is a principal mentioned and taught in bible scriptures.

 

Prisonchaplain:  It's one thing to engage those of other faiths, God-seekers all, and quite another to embrace practices and rituals they perform.  On the other hand, I would certainly encourage the committed non-Christian meditator to listen for the voice of God the next time s/he meditates.  God will speak to those who seek him. 

The second concern is the issue of personalizing our spiritual connection with G-d. Finding answers from within (which is the only way G-d communities spiritually with the heart and soul of men) I find to be a great disappointment in the teaching of evangelicals. The scriptural reference to ones heart is a direct reference to introspection to our spiritual selves. I don't believe some one is being honest with themselves and others if they claim to have a personal relationship with G-d and at the same time fear what is inside their own heart.

If there is a way to transcend our physical condition and commune with G-d without meditation that opens up our hearts and minds to that which is spiritual I would be skeptical yet willing to at least consider.

 

Prisonchaplain:  Meditation is one of the spiritual disciplines.  Richard Foster has a chapter on the practice in his Celebration of Discipline book.  He also edited a fascinating book on some very in-depth devotional writings that came mostly from the monks and nuns who meditated extensively.

 

What we struggle with is the kind of meditation that calls for emptying the mind, and just awaiting whatever feelings, ideas, or sensations that may come.  We could appear to be doing very near to the same thing, but would be calling on wisdom and direction from the Holy Spirit.  We might also meditate on a particular scripture.

 

 

May I suggest something for you my friend PC.  You are one of the most interesting and inspiring individuals I have met.  But this subject and your input has been somewhat of a disappointment.  We do not all have to experience everything for ourselves to realize those things that are good and pleasing to G-d and those things that ruin and draw individuals away from G-d.  You are, as it seem to me, to be in a most unique place and circumstance to have input and impact on this subject.  Yet you do not seem to have any experience in introspection meditation your self or any direct contact with someone else that does have experience.

 

You have no witness of yourself - that I have seen so far - to say that you have been involved and found the process as a cleaver process to ruin a person and take them away from G-d.  And in addition, since your work in the prison system with those that have walked a path of sin and ruin - that you have not referenced even a single individual that was brought to ruin through introspection mediation.  Or someone in the prison system that was on the "right" path that was derailed to a better life because they got involved in introspection mediation.

 

It appears to me that all that have posted on this thread that have studied and instituted sound principles of introspection mediation all have good things to say of it.  Now I realize that too much of anything can be bad.  As good as going to church and reading scriptures are - there is more and more important things should not be forgotten.  Just like getting two wrapped up in "church" I believe a person can get too wrapped up in introspection mediation.  But I do not believe that because such a thing as too much can happen that someone should reject the entire experience.  The way you express: "we struggle with is the kind of meditation that calls for emptying the mind, and just awaiting whatever feelings, ideas, or sensations that may come" appears to me to not necessarily to be completely and entirely inaccurate but rather a prejudicial coloring that of it self in quite inaccurate. 

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I am wanting to learn to meditate because I've recently learned of health benefits regarding it's practice. It's good to know it's in keeping with gospel standards, too.

 

As a point you may find interesting - I am a cyclists and have competed in years past.  As part of my training, especially for long rides, I would try to coordinate my thinking, heart rate, breathing, muscle cycles, hydration and nutritional intake to optimize my performance during the ride.  There are expressions for this - sometimes called a "second wind". 

 

I also studied meditation from a Buddhist monk.  This was not just a passing fancy but a honest effort to study and learn as much as I could.  After some months of meditation with oversight from my Buddhist friend I began to realize that the principles of introspective meditation were very similar to my cycling training.  In discussing this with my Buddhist friend we concluded together that such cycle training is in every aspect meditation that even my monk friend was all about.

 

My wife likes to kid me and say that I put myself in a trance to climb long hills.  I can sense my breathing, heart rate and cadence that all gets "locked in" to my effort.  I am convinced that we can, through discipline, improve anything we wish to do and that introspection mediation is in every way --- discipline.

 

One last thought,  The relationship of a disciple being disciplined by a master - is in every way that I understand the meaning and purpose Jesus called those that followed him "disciples" and that they referred to him as their master.  I suggest that to be come truly disciplined one must find a "master" that is willing to be more than a teacher - a mentor to guide us. 

 

So my question is - Who is your mentor?  A question we should all answer.

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