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When you get engaged, even if you are just boyfriend/girlfriend, the relationship has boundaries and obligations to be loyal to those limits. Not being married just means a different set of boundaries and an easier time ending the relationship.   He did betray her, he was disloyal and it was cheating.  The outward act was not the same as having sex with somebody else, but in terms of what was in his heart there is very little that is different.  Cheating is what happens in the heart far, far more than what happens with the body.

 

Do words have meaning? Not intrinsically. They mean only what we assign to them. "Adultery" does not mean kissing. It means the physical act of sex outside of your marriage. It means that because we agree on the meaning.

 

Sometimes we use euphemisms when the "real" term might seem too harsh or cause offense or hurt. So we use the term "to cheat on" as a euphemism for committing adultery. Again, this is by convention, because we agree on it.

 

Now you and Bini are changing the definition. "To cheat on" no longer means "to commit adultery", but just "to do something unseemly that you shouldn't do." But this is not the generally agreed-upon meaning.

 

If a large percentage of people adopt your definition of "to cheat on", then it will mean what you claim it to mean. And that's fine. But in that case, "to cheat on" someone is simply not nearly as big a deal as to commit adultery. Adultery is a whole 'nother level of badness from merely "cheating on" someone.

 

But I reject that usage of the term and maintain that my assessment is correct.

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*Shrug*  Maybe it's a regional/cultural thing.  Where I grew up, Bini's and Latter-day Marriage's definitions of "cheating" would have been quite current, even amongst the non-LDS community. 

 

I don't think I'd be so quick to give the boyfriend a clean bill of health on the "a" word either, though.  I suppose one might argue it's not adultery if there's no actual intercourse (I haven't really thought that one through, and don't care to); but the boyfriend was smoochin' a married woman.  I would call that adulterous, even if it doesn't rise to the level of adultery.

Edited by Just_A_Guy

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*Shrug*  Maybe it's a regional/cultural thing.  Where I grew up, Bini's and Latter-day Marriage's definitions of "cheating" would have been quite current, even amongst the non-LDS community. 

 

I don't think I'd be so quick to give the boyfriend a clean bill of health on the "a" word either, though.  I suppose one might argue it's not adultery if there's no actual intercourse (I haven't really thought that one through, and don't care to); but the boyfriend was smoochin' a married woman.  I would call that adulterous, even if it doesn't rise to the level of adultery.

 

The boyfriend's actions are deplorable; of that, there is no question or disagreement. The fact that he seems deeply ashamed is encouraging, though not exculpating.

 

If "cheating on a spouse" is not synonymous with "committing adultery", then Bini and LDM may be right. A quick Google on the term suggests that it is indeed a synonym for adultery, but that's hardly an authoritative source.

 

Adultery is adultery. Kissing is not adultery. I can think of things that might be adultery-ish and might skirt the line, which I would tend to lump into adultery. But kissing someone else's wife, however wrong, is not that.

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Do words have meaning? Not intrinsically. They mean only what we assign to them. "Adultery" does not mean kissing. It means the physical act of sex outside of your marriage. It means that because we agree on the meaning.

 

Sometimes we use euphemisms when the "real" term might seem too harsh or cause offense or hurt. So we use the term "to cheat on" as a euphemism for committing adultery. Again, this is by convention, because we agree on it.

 

Now you and Bini are changing the definition. "To cheat on" no longer means "to commit adultery", but just "to do something unseemly that you shouldn't do." But this is not the generally agreed-upon meaning.

 

If a large percentage of people adopt your definition of "to cheat on", then it will mean what you claim it to mean. And that's fine. But in that case, "to cheat on" someone is simply not nearly as big a deal as to commit adultery. Adultery is a whole 'nother level of badness from merely "cheating on" someone.

 

But I reject that usage of the term and maintain that my assessment is correct.

 

If somebody copies test answers off another student they are cheating, if they deal from the bottom of the deck they are cheating, if they replace regulation footballs with under-inflated ones they are cheating.  Cheating means to seek advantage by breaking rules.  Relationships have rules and breaking those rules is cheating and it certainly fits into what happened here.  I didn't call it adultery because it wasn't that kind of cheating, but it was cheating.

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The statement that you are working with your bishop and stake president worry me.   What have you done that suggests you need to do that?  The church specifically instructs its leaders NOT to be involved in decisions about whom to marry or whether to divorce.   You need to make these decisions yourself, as you are the one who needs to know whether they are ones you want to make, and whether God approves of that choice.  (You may want objective advice about that, but I'd get if from people who are trained to give it.   Go for premarital counseling.   Buy the book and work through the questions together so that you really understand each other.    https://deseretbook.com/p/300-questions-lds-couples-should-ask-before-marriage-shannon-l-alder-50863)

 

But don't get married until enough time has passed that you and he have better understanding about who you are and whether you can make a healthy family.

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Working with Bishop and Stake President to make the thing work... when you're not even married yet and could simply just walk away?

I don't know what the full story is, but one thing I'm sure of... you're in for a rough rest-of-your-life. Be prepared.

Edited by anatess

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Guest MormonGator

 when you're not even married yet and could simply just walk away?

 

It's much tougher than that. I walked away from a three year relationship and it was the hardest thing I ever had to do. We weren't married but it's still brutal.

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I actually regret posting this but there is no way of getting rid of it now. Anyway we've been working with our stake president and bishop together and have been working on opening up to each other and getting closer to Christ individually and together. I really was just looking for someone who has been in a similar situation and how they were able to work through it and if it is possible.

 

I wouldn't regret it. It might be fun to come back in 5 years and tell everyone how wrong they were. 

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It's much tougher than that. I walked away from a three year relationship and it was the hardest thing I ever had to do. We weren't married but it's still brutal.

I walked away 1 week before the wedding. I had to sit down and return presents that we've received all the way from the Philippines. I already had the dress that the to-be-in-laws bought and paid for and my mother melted her collection of antique coins to make our chain (Catholic tradition) that she's been collecting since she got married to my dad for the sole purpose of having "something old" to give to the first daughter that gets married. Most of the money spent on church décor, reception, etc. was non-refundable and several of the guests already bought their plane tickets (some from the Philippines) and couldn't return it.

Yes, it was one of the lowest points in my life and it took me a long time to recover. We're still good friends until today but he's in the Philippines and the last time we saw each other was at my dad's funeral 2 years ago. Every time I think about that time of my life I am glad I had the guts to walk away, especially when I think of my husband and my kids now.

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 We're still good friends until today 

 That's good. Most of my exes want me dead, and I can't blame them. 

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That's good. Most of my exes want me dead, and I can't blame them.

LOL! Didn't your mother tell you not to date Noles cheerleaders?

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LOL! Didn't your mother tell you not to date Noles cheerleaders?

 Best. Response. Ever. 

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I actually regret posting this but there is no way of getting rid of it now. Anyway we've been working with our stake president and bishop together and have been working on opening up to each other and getting closer to Christ individually and together. I really was just looking for someone who has been in a similar situation and how they were able to work through it and if it is possible.

 

Don't regret it. Regardless of your decision, it is yours, not ours. Best of luck to you. 

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I'm going to dissect your post and give you my opinion.

 

 

My fiance basically began a relationship with a woman after about three months after we got engaged and three months before we were suppose to get married. It was with a woman from work who is 10 years older than him, she is married and has five kids. She told him that she had feelings for him (she was in a horrible marriage, her husband is just horrible) and my fiance reciprocated about a month later they ended up kissing on a few different occasions. He told me that when it started he thought he was losing feelings for me and thought he wasn't in love with me anymore. 

 

[Your fiance liked being the 'rescuer' of the 'damsel in distress' and he felt 'needed' and 'wanted'.  But knowing that she was married... makes his indiscretion worse, because he became a participant in an emotional and (possibly physical) affair.

Please keep in mind that we aren't talking about pornography or other (somewhat) minor issues.  (I know I'll get some flack on that one.)  We're talking about an actual connection with another woman who was already married.  This is why posters (and myself) are taking this more seriously.]

 

A month before our wedding my fiance told me and also our stake president. We broke up, but are now trying to work it out. Before it started he had to work everyday for over a month including sundays because the other supervisor was out of town. During this time we began fighting a lot, I was getting upset at him for no reason and I was dropping him off at work like that.

 

[That much work can be stressful on anyone.]

We both weren't preparing well for our sealing, we were hardly reading our scriptures, praying, hadn't been to the temple since before we got engaged, we barely even read the marriage prep manual that our bishop gave us. We were both just really busy with school and work and I was stressed all the time and felt like our relationship was on auto-pilot.

 

[if you were attending the temple before, and no longer attending... that is a 'red flag' that he may be resisting going due to personal worthiness issues.  And as others said, if you're stressed because of "school and work"... wait until it's just work and a family.  It would be worse.]

As long as i've known my fiance he's always been a righteous priesthood holder. This is so out of character for him and especially since the other woman is sealed to her husband. My fiance and I were friends for a while before we started dating and have been together for about two years. Its been almost two months since he told me and at first he was really emotional and depressed. He was crying all the time, he was upset that he hurt me and hurt her family. He kept telling me that he never thought he would do something like that.

 

[You know him best.  Are his tears based on repentance?  Or are they the tears of the damned?  Mormon 2:13]

Now, he's been doing much better and is an even better boyfriend then he was before. I really believe that he'll never do anything like this again and I know that it is kinda normal for engaged couples to get cold feet and one ends up doing something similar and they still end up getting married eventually.

 

[i'm not sure I agree with you on this one.  Some may do stupid things like hook up with an old flame.  This is different.  This is being a willing participant in someone violating their marriage covenant.  As to how far it went, that's what he knows, but it certainly didn't help things for the other woman's marriage.]

 

The hardest thing for me is not knowing how this will affect our relationship if we do get married. Infidelity is everywhere, in movies, books, magazines, music, everywhere. How do we handle uncomfortable situations like that.

 

[You know the 'Sunday School' answers.  Here's the problem:  once one has done these things, the temptation will ALWAYS be there.  If you ever smoked a cigarette (and liked it), you may always be tempted by it.  If you have ever had alcohol, you may always be tempted by it.  It's not the fact that we will be tempted.  We accepted that fact by coming into this world.  The question is... what will we DO about it?]

 

People always say Satan is going to work harder on you now because you are engaged and to me that meant physical intimacy which we never had a problem with. I didn't think the adversary would be working on us emotionally. I just want to know if this is possible to get through and if its possible not to let this affect me in the future. I know it was just a kiss but its still hard. He's not done with his repentance process yet and hasn't gotten his temple recommend back yet. My bishop told me to be patient and that I wouldn't be able to make a decision until he has fully repented and has a clear conscious.

 

Let's talk a little bit about repentance.  There are two kinds of repentance (generally).

1)  Ecclesiastical clearance.  This repentance comes from your priesthood leaders.  This means a complete confession and humility in order to gain ecclesiastical clearance to serve in the church, partake of the sacrament, and be a member in good standing.

 

2)  Changing of your heart.  This is done inside of our souls through prayer and connecting our souls and will to how our Heavenly Father wants us to live.  This forgiveness is harder... but it is sweeter.

 

The Bishop helps with #1.  But you need to see #2 happen.

 

Has he made an effort to avoid this woman at his work... or get a transfer... or find a new job?  We don't know the answer to that... and THAT effort is probably more important than anything else he says he is doing.  He needs to avoid contact with her, and if he stays at that job where she is... makes everything else much more difficult.

Edited by DHK

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I am a little late to this session of answers; however, I will keep it simple (random married man's post).  I hope you have enough sense to end the engagement.

 

If I had prayed and asked Heavenly Father for an answer as to whether or not this was the right woman for me, and in reverse this is the choice my fiancé made, I can't think of any better answer than this to end an engagement.  

 

A friend of mine has a principle he follows, "Past behavior is a good indicator of future behavior" -- to add a caveat, unless they have applied the atonement and have experienced a change of heart.  King Mosiah even understood this principle regarding his sons and who would be King, as he said, paraphrased, "should any of my sons return to their previous behavior their will be no king" and thus we have the reign of judges.  Now you must ask yourself, "What if he returns to such actions while you are married"?  As for me, better to end a relationship than to possibly deal with this scenario.

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My opinion on this is that you can cheat in a relationship well before intercourse, well before any physical affection at all.  It's called an "emotional affair."  OP's fiance definitely cheated.  So did the other woman.

 

In my mind, though, adultery means intercourse.  Cheating means a relationship that ultimately leads to adultery.

 

It's also my opinion that once a cheater, always a cheater (unless he/she applies the Atonement to its fullest).  That having been said, when it comes to marriage with this guy, buyer beware.

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I was thinking to myself why any woman would try to work our a relationship with an ex fiancee who cheated? Must live in Utah were the gender ratio is 1:3. Honey, read the writing on the wall. If you end up with this guy, any and all really stupid infidelity decisions he may make shouldn't be a surprise.

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Sounds like a wonderful relationship built on so much trust already! Given what has already transpired, what could possibly go wrong? :unsure:

Is this The Bishop's Gong Show? Inquiring minds, and all....

 

 

 

 

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On 7/7/2015 at 11:40 PM, Str8Shooter said:

Listen to your Bishop.

Is the OP's Bishop a relationship expert?

Let your Bishop deal with sin aspect of it with your BF. You need to make your own decisions about whether to marry him or not. You have gotten some good advice in this thread I would follow it.

 

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